Back When Protestants Men Weren't The Gutless Wonders Of Today

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Willie T

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Funny Willie.
Remember the communes back in the 60s?
Did they work out? Why not?
Because they were made up of humans!
No, there Must be a leader, or it won't work.
That is what I said. We already HAVE a leader..... if we don't choose to dethrone Him.
BTW, communes are still very active today.
 

Phoneman777

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I agree except for the veneration of stone idols.
When you add incorrect facts to true facts, it kind of waters down the true facts.
True. James didn't say "stone" but he did say "keep yourselves from idols", which are usually made of wood, metal, or stone and absolutely pertains to "veneration".

What is most compelling about James' words are that they were so entirely unnecessary to those very devout, first-century Christians who were just 30 years removed from the Cross. They knew way better than to get involved with idolatry - but James saw with the eye of prophecy that very soon idolatry would start creeping into the church and eventually result in the full blown apostasy of papal Rome.
 

GodsGrace

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"And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth." Gen 11:1-9


"Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth." Dan 2:34-35


"That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:" Eph 2:12-16
OK Amadeus, but then why isn't this happening naturally?
Why will it take men agreeing to bring this about?
 

GodsGrace

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True. James didn't say "stone" but he did say "keep yourselves from idols", which are usually made of wood, metal, or stone and absolutely pertains to "veneration".

What is most compelling about James' words are that they were so entirely unnecessary to those very devout, first-century Christians who were just 30 years removed from the Cross. They knew way better than to get involved with idolatry - but James saw with the eye of prophecy that very soon idolatry would start creeping into the church and eventually result in the full blown apostasy of papal Rome.
But let's not forget that the Greeks and Babylonians also made statues.
He wanted Christians to worship the ONE Good that they did not know.
They had the statue to the Unknown God.

I'm not against statues aslong as it's understood that we don't don't veneratethe statue.
You're totally against any statue?
 

Phoneman777

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That is what I said. We already HAVE a leader..... if we don't choose to dethrone Him.
BTW, communes are still very active today.
There's a "co-op" grocery store near where I work. All the trappings of the mental disorder that is liberalism: new age paraphernalia, "animal rights" awareness products, deviant sexual behavior agenda promoting stuff, etc. Their prices are sky high but you get a small break on them if you join, although you can shop at Wal-Mart or other local grocers and get the same stuff a lot cheaper. Capitalism saved the American Colonies from the socialist experiment that was threatening them with destruction and to this day, that silly liberal co-op with disdain reluctantly clings to capitalism to keep it in business.
 

GodsGrace

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"Agreeing" is not condemning or shunning others if they don't do things my way.
"Agreeing" is not condemning or shunning others if they don't do things my way.
You're a very nice person and agreeable, but not everyone is like that, especially those in high places that are after power and used to it.

I just think it's all very interesting and am waiting to see what happens.
 

Willie T

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There's a "co-op" grocery store near where I work. All the trappings of the mental disorder that is liberalism: new age paraphernalia, "animal rights" awareness products, deviant sexual behavior agenda promoting stuff, etc. Their prices are sky high but you get a small break on them if you join, although you can shop at Wal-Mart or other local grocers and get the same stuff a lot cheaper. Capitalism saved the American Colonies from the socialist experiment that was threatening them with destruction and to this day, that silly liberal co-op with disdain reluctantly clings to capitalism to keep it in business.
I cannot dig in my heels and declare it has to be one way or another in government. I am a Capitalist, but I have to admit (as vehemently as I hate to...) that much of Christianity functions upon principles of Godly Socialism.
 
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Phoneman777

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Why do some of you seem to consider "The Ecumenical Movement" to be a bad thing? Didn't Jesus tell us that as far as possible, we were to get along with all men?
I spent 12 years in a congregation of an organization (the CoC) that wouldn't even associate with other members of the same denomination. It only happened 2 times in that entire time, that two local churches assembled together, and the tension was so thick, you could have cut it with a knife.
Refusing to fellowship with other Christians is a very sad and disappointing thing to see.
No, the Bible says:
  • come out from among them
  • separate
  • be not unequally yoked with unbelievers
  • come out of Babylon
  • be peculiar (different, not odd)
Reaching out to minister to the needs of unbelievers/sharing the Gospel with them can never include any real or apparent conveyance that their misguided ideas about God, worship, or doctrine are acceptable in the sight of Him.
 
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Phoneman777

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But let's not forget that the Greeks and Babylonians also made statues.
He wanted Christians to worship the ONE Good that they did not know.
They had the statue to the Unknown God.

I'm not against statues aslong as it's understood that we don't don't veneratethe statue.
You're totally against any statue?
No, images are fine (although churches are right to exclude them from their sanctuaries due to the overwhelming sinful use of them in every corner of the globe) because the prohibition of Exodus 20 includes to "not bow". If it outlawed all images, then the images of the angels sewn on the veil of the temple, symbolizing the angels that surround the heavenly throne room of God, would violate the commandment.
 

Phoneman777

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I cannot dig in my heels and declare it has to be one way or another in government. I am a Capitalist, but I have to admit (as vehemently as I hate to...) that much of Christianity functions upon principles of Godly Socialism.
Yes, Socialism is the system of Christianity, but not for "Jerusalem which is now" - only "Jerusalem which is above."

socialism rr.jpg
 

Nancy

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A man or group has to rule? I thought God did.
I have associated amiably with both Jews and Catholics for years without having to put on a yamaka or to genuflect. And I still believe they both worship God.
On it's face Willie T., the whole Ecumenical movement sounds very "Kum ba yah" like but, we would no longer be Christians as I do not believe all religions "serve" the same God...the God of Islam is not the same God we serve, Buddah, Kirshna and so on. Even if all were "Christians", I cannot see it working as we cannot even agree on all things within our own local bodies. In "heaven" is where I believe only true unity will take place...JMHO ♥
 
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Taken

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Phoneman777

The problem today is not just the doctrine of the Roman Church, it is the doctrine of various Protestant Churches. You want to make it a Roman/Protestant thing and it isn't. When the Reformers came into conflict with the Roman Church, they were Romanists also. The point being, there are many within the Roman Church who are believers. Much of Protestant doctrine today is straight out of hell. Yet there are many in the Protestant Churches who are believers.

Both Protestant and Roman churches will contribute to the apostate church of the last days. But within both, at this time, you have the believers.

Stranger

No one gets all the credit (or blame, however one looks at it)....
Aside from that...observing history, one can formulate who was instrumental in getting the ball rolling and WHO elected to jump on board.

People are still attempting to keep the focus on "categories" (which blend in many areas)...when the bottom line IS; INDIVIDUALS...

Christ is not looking at "categories" ie.
Gentile's, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Protestants, Catholics, Americans, Russians, Orentials, Hispanics, Light / medium/ dark skin......etc.

He IS looking IN the Truth of Belief in the hearts of "the unsaved" and calling "THAT" individual to repentance and ACCEPT His Gift of Salvation.

Discussing when, how, the FALL of man is perpetuated is not solely accredited to One catagory...
And the discussing of observing how quickly and wide-spread the fall IS perpetuated, IS alarming to many observers.

God Bless,
Taken
 
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Nancy

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Nancy

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No one gets all the credit (or blame, however one looks at it)....
Aside from that...observing history, one can formulate who was instrumental in getting the ball rolling and WHO elected to jump on board.

People are still attempting to keep the focus on "categories" (which blend in many areas)...when the bottom line IS; INDIVIDUALS...

Christ is not looking at "categories" ie.
Gentile's, Jews, Muslims, Christians, Protestants, Catholics, Americans, Russians, Orentials, Hispanics, Light / medium/ dark skin......etc.

He IS looking IN the Truth of Belief in the hearts of "the unsaved" and calling "THAT" individual to repentance and ACCEPT His Gift of Salvation.

Discussing when, how, the FALL of man is perpetuated is not solely accredited to One catagory...
And the discussing of observing how quickly and wide-spread the fall IS perpetuated, IS alarming to many observers.

God Bless,
Taken
Agreed Taken,
It boils down to individual choice as I sure do believe it IS a choice and, nobody but you can choose the truth (Jesus). And the only thing God will not abide is, sin. Period. So, I WILL accept that gift of salvation, with exceeding joy!!! :):D;)
 
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amadeus

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OK Amadeus, but then why isn't this happening naturally?
Why will it take men agreeing to bring this about?
You use the word "naturally", but I would only use that word if we were to it as "according to God's plan". Then I would answer it is happening. Where each of us is in it is up to us. Even in the best of organized church groups, we cannot simply numbly and blindly follow the human leaders, no matter how close to God they may be and expect to end up on the Lord's side.

On the one hand God is scattering those who are building their own way supposedly to Him. On the other hand those making the feet, the Catholics and Protestants [unmixable iron and clay] are to be crushed by the true Church that comes out of them and will never be destroyed. The true Church is where or what? It is those who properly fit together to form the Body of Christ. These have only one Head, which is Jesus.

Can we see it happening? What is His plan? Do we have eyes to see? How clear is our vision?

Man is not building it by joining hands with all of the other men. God is building it in men who are allowing Him to work in them to accomplish His purpose, that is to do the building.
 

amadeus

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"Agreeing" is not condemning or shunning others if they don't do things my way.
If God is in us leading us, we will do it all the right way, His Way eventually. But... as we get closer when the finishing touches are being applied, the sandpaper must finer than when the work was first begun.
 
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amadeus

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On it's face Willie T., the whole Ecumenical movement sounds very "Kum ba yah" like but, we would no longer be Christians as I do not believe all religions "serve" the same God...the God of Islam is not the same God we serve, Buddah, Kirshna and so on. Even if all were "Christians", I cannot see it working as we cannot even agree on all things within our own local bodies. In "heaven" is where I believe only true unity will take place...JMHO ♥
Even all of those who are in the churches regularly do not serve God so well as that, do they? Not every person who sits on a pew on Saturdays/Sundays will be a part of the Body of Christ. Not everyone who serves Him while almost never sitting on a pew will be a part of the Body of Christ. What will it take?

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Rom 12:1-2


Those who sit back and wait expecting all of their part to be completed sometime after the dirt is thrown on their faces are likely to find themselves outside of the Ark when the end comes.
 
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