1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Back When Protestants Men Weren't The Gutless Wonders Of Today

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by Phoneman777, Aug 26, 2018.

  1. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,583
    Likes Received:
    11,873
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Many of what are called Christian churches are based too much on democracy. God's kingdom is not a democracy. Democratic principles will not get us closer to God.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018
    Philip James, Nancy and Willie T like this.
  2. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,555
    Likes Received:
    8,561
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    If we look at the second principal commandment....and royal law....to "love others as ourselves"...we do see a common basis for all men of all religions to agree on. We can do some things without divine grace. Nothing eternal, of course. The irony is that we don't even have that one down, ourselves. We can't even seem to do what men should be able to do...let alone conform to God's holiness. As in..."let he who is without sin cast the first stone." For many...a coming together of all religions would be an improvement over their current bias. Do we glory in our divisions? For what reason?

    But, the Way of Christ is not just loving others as ourselves...it is loving others as Jesus loves them.

    So then our love is to surpass...not fall short of...the kind of love men can produce. The error would be to be so against a common love, so as to hold out for more (or worse..based on our bigotry and religiosity), when there is no more we can (or want to) offer the world. Instead we just criticize others and think we have done our part?

    So then an ecumenical idea is better than a sectarian idea for it's own sake.

    We need to be able to present Christ in the right way. We can't let the world "outlove" the church. But neither should we let ourselves be diminished in our calling to a higher love.

    We are being challenged by the world.

    We need to show Christ as He is. A dogmatic stance doesn't do this. We need to understand what is good in what is being presented and not just be difficult. Being difficult just to be difficult. That's how we get written off by the world...and rightly so. (just look at the difficult people on this forum with all the biases and realize that this is the witness that is so often portrayed as "better" than an attitude that seeks to help out, even if that effort IS misguided).

    We are called to holiness and a higher righteousness...but not one that negates what men can do...but rather shows it up for what it really is.

    Are we to criticize doctors because they are operating in the flesh? NO. But miraculous healings shows them up.

    We need to show people that God is in our midst.

    Are we to be against people who seek to be loving by their own reasoning? No. But we are to show them a love they can't reproduce by human effort.

    So then rather than attack others...and do nothing but judge...we should take the challenge seriously. They may be the people that accuse us of neglect and indifference on judgment day. Where is the love?
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018
  3. waterlilyoflife

    waterlilyoflife Member

    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    37
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Episkopos, thank you for that light-filled blessed message of love.


    I have known many Catholics who are bad people. I know many Catholic priests are gay pedophiles. The nuns are abusive to children in Catholic schools and orphanages. They beat children and slap their hands with rulers. They had Irish catholic "laundries" where women considered fallen were forced to work as slaves before washing machines were invented, they washed sheets and clothes and the Irish Catholic Church made money from this.

    Not to mention the fact their doctrine is wrong. They are idol worshipers. They bow down before statues and paintings of Mary and the saints, sometimes they have statues and paintings of Jesus, the orthodox church has icons, they are painted on wood or made from metal with enameling, pictures of Jesus, Mary, the disciples and many saints. They bow down and kiss and hold crosses and crucifixes, medals, other stuff with Christian symbols. I am an artist myself, but I know the difference than art for the sake of beauty and praise to God than idols made to be worshiped in defiance of God or misunderstanding of who God really is. Yes, God is love. He is kind and forgiving. He is also holy and pure, and sees justice done. He loves Catholics, even though he probably does not approve of their ways.


    The worst thing is the sexual abuse of very young children. A man of God should not be a child molester, the church should have banished and kicked those pedophile priests out of the church, they should not be priests, maybe they should even go to jail like a ordinary person who molests children.

    I have known Catholics who are very good people dedicated to the Lord. But I think they need to understand the truth about the gospel of Jesus Christ. The Mary who is the mother of Christ in the Bible is very different from the fictional Mary or "Our Lady" that Catholics worship. THe real Mary was very humble and modest, she was very obedient to the Lord. She gave her body, her life, her time, her home her talents and care to rear the son of God as her own precious son. She risked her upcoming marriage, risked being falsely accused of adultery and stoned to death as punishment because of her pregnancy. She suffered from witnessing her Son on the cross. Jesus spoke to John the beloved disciple and made sure he would take in his mother and care for her before he died. She must have been so over joyed with the resurrection, when Mary Magdalene declared she had seen Jesus Christ alive from the tomb.

    There is nothing in the Bible about how Mary dies, the Catholic church claims she ascended into heaven like Jesus Christ, but this must be fiction. Mary was not without sin. She was human, and needed to have her sins forgiven by her son Jesus Christ like the rest of us. She was a virgin when she gave birth to Jesus, but later on she had more children by her husband Joseph. To have a marriage with no love making going on is not a true Godly marriage. God approves of marriage. I have heard pedophiles are attracted to the strict celibate lives of the priesthood because they think it would cure them of their disorder. In protestant faiths the pastor or minister can marry and have a normal family.
     
  4. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,656
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The intolerance of the globalists bent on ushering in a NWO is monumental. There's a new book out called "Get Out Now: Why You Should Pull Your Child From Public School Before It's Too Late". PTA is a thing of the past. School systems are so scared of the lawsuits that globalists like Soros are prepared to fund against the public school system if they don't kow tow to the "new morality" of sexual deviancy that parents' dissension is falling literally on deaf ears.
     
    Reggie Belafonte likes this.
  5. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,585
    Likes Received:
    2,945
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    There is nothing wrong with focusing on 'categories' as long as those categories are focused on by God. Such as Israel, and the Gentiles, and the Church. Your 'bottom line' of individuals does not remove those categories.

    Of course it is true that God looks to the heart of the individual. And if the heart is right with God, turns to Jesus Christ, then that individual is in the category of the Church, the Body of Christ.

    Stranger
     
    Taken likes this.
  6. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,656
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Prepare for head for the following cranial explosion: The Bible says plainly, clearly, without question that failing to warn your neighbor of the error of his way is a textbook act of hatred:

    "Hate not thy brother in thine own heart. Thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy brother, and not suffer sin upon him." Leviticus 19:17 KJV

    The idea that loving your neighbor means never calling him out for his religious error is actually a subtle deception used as a club to keep silent those who would otherwise stand up against the continual onslaught of demonic doctrine.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018
    brakelite and Reggie Belafonte like this.
  7. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    7,555
    Likes Received:
    8,561
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    "Phoneman777, post: 434384, member: 6649"]Prepare for head for the following cranial explosion:

    The Bible says plainly, clearly, without question that failing to warn your neighbor of the error of his way is a textbook act of hatred.

    "Hate not thy brother in thine own heart. Thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy brother, and not suffer sin upon him." Leviticus 19:17 KJV

    We are to judge apples with apples and oranges with oranges. We can't expect people that have not received grace from heaven to do the same as us. We are to judge those who claim to be connected to God...rebuking, exhorting..etc.

    But God judges those outside. We are NOT to judge the world.

    Jesus said Judge not..Paul says...judge not..

    1 Cor. 5:13 God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked person from among you."

    When we expel someone from fellowship, we are sending them out to be with the world...


    Now, are you going to agree with the Bible - or - continue on with this popular belief that loving your neighbor means never calling him out for his religious errors - a Satanic idea that is used as a club to keep those who would otherwise stand up against the onslaught of doctrines of devils silent?

    We are to love people into the kingdom...not judge them into the kingdom. We can't expect everyone to be held to the same standard as they who have entered into the new life in Christ. What place has darkness with light? What comparison can you have to judge one against the other? You don't blame darkness...but you provide light.


     
    Nancy and faithfulness like this.
  8. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,585
    Likes Received:
    2,945
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    What I said is that there is much Protestant doctrine that is straight out of hell. And there is much Roman doctrine straight out of hell. Do you agree or disagree? Do you believe there are any true believers in the Roman Church? I do. Even though I disagree with much of their doctrine.

    Do you believe there are non-believers in the Protestant Church? I do. Even though I am Protestant.

    If the Roman Church wants to make it a Protestant/Roman thing, that doesn't mean I have to. If you want to make it a Protestant/Roman thing, that doesn't mean I have to. I would not become a member of the Roman church due to their doctrine. But there are many Protestant churches that I would also never become a member due to their doctrine.

    Stranger
     
    Nancy likes this.
  9. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,656
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    There are no "Protestant doctrines straight out of hell" today - for light has fully come after over 1,000 years of papal darkness and those who were once true Protestants which had the chance to walk in the light have chosen the darkness of the papacy - the Roman catholic church by her own word declares today there is only "one Biblically consistent Protestant" while claiming the rest as her subjects who "bow down in reverent obedience to her".

    You'd think those who are the recipients of such a colossal pimp slap would be somewhat annoyed at Rome, but no, they rush to her defense every time someone reminds the Christian world that the Antichrist of Bible Prophecy was discovered to reside in Rome even before Luther came along with his well tempered Gospel hammer.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018
  10. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,146
    Likes Received:
    5,014
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Italy
    I'd say that some unknowledgeable catholics might, maybe, bow down to some statue, but I'm not in their mind to know what they're thinking.

    They're not SUPPOSED to venerate the statue, but who knows. The younger crowd knows more about these things.

    In protestantism we have no such problem...in fact, I'd say that our churches are too empty and I wish they were more "adorned". I think it's good to make the house of God beautiful.

    I think I'm off-topic.
     
    Willie T likes this.
  11. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,152
    Likes Received:
    6,197
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    We had our church children paint murals on our walls. The "sanctuary" has one of trees and flowers on the West wall.
     
    Nancy likes this.
  12. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,585
    Likes Received:
    2,945
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Many Protestant churches, Methodist, Presbyterian, Baptist,etc. etc. open their doors to homosexuals. Many allow women to preach and teach mixed assemblies. Many have become so liberal as to deny the Deity of Jesus Christ. Do you agree with these Protestants?

    Rome does annoy me. But as I said, so does much of Protestantism. I am not defending Rome. I am wanting you to see that there are believers in the Roman Church, irregardless of their bad doctrines. And for some reason, you want to ignore that.

    Stranger
     
    Reggie Belafonte likes this.
  13. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,146
    Likes Received:
    5,014
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Italy
    Great idea. It also gets children involved...they'll remember this forever.

    We seen to go from one extreme to the other. What churches I've seen in Europe!
    But in our churches, it's like we're afraid to make them too beautiful -- this is wrong too. Everything adds to life.

    I think you must go to a good church.
     
  14. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,585
    Likes Received:
    2,945
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I agree. Protestant churches have moved towards 'entertainment' instead of worship. They cry about statues, yet they put up some rock and roll band to play, which is nothing but a work of the flesh.

    I believe overall they have lost the way to worship.

    Stranger
     
  15. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,146
    Likes Received:
    5,014
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Italy
    Ha!
    I think it's already too late!
    I watched a rather horrifying video on youtube.
    Couldn't believe it was real ... thought it was fake news.
    So I looked it up in the Italian site. Turns out it was real and covered as it was happening back in 2016.

    It's the inauguration of the Gotthard Tunnel in Switzerland. I won't post it not to derail, but check it out sometime. It'll make you sick.
    I hope Jesus comes back soon...
     
  16. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,146
    Likes Received:
    5,014
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Italy
    Right!
    Never even thought of this.
    Rock music in churches could definitely be idol worship.
    Are the words listened to or is the music listened to??
    Great point.
     
    faithfulness likes this.
  17. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,152
    Likes Received:
    6,197
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    My church is also in your country, I believe. It is called The Vineyard Fellowship on this side of the pond.... maybe Yeovil Vineyard Church? http://www.yeovilvineyard.com/
     
  18. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,146
    Likes Received:
    5,014
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Italy
    I don't know what YEOVIL would mean...
    But, anyway, believe me, there won't be one near me.
    I'd ask you to find out, but I'm 99% sure it'll be very far away even if there is one.
     
  19. Phoneman777

    Phoneman777 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,656
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Wow, this is so true. A democracy is a system in which the people are governed by the rule of the majority.

    Can you tell us the shocking truth about what form of government best describes the kingdom of heaven and why MONARCHY is not htelthough God's kingdom is a monarchy, can you answer, then, which form of government best describes the kingdom of God?
    Jesus wasn't "comely" yet the people flocked to Him. Because of His character - which perfectly represented the duality of God the Father as both a God of love and justice equally, so that it would be known to all that His mercy "will in no wise clear the guilty". The reason why churches are empty is due to the disease of liberalism which makes the church appear no different than the world. Why should they come out from among it into a place where the same foolishness is carried on, but blasphemously in the name of Christ?
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018
    Reggie Belafonte likes this.
  20. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,146
    Likes Received:
    5,014
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Italy
    I agree.
    Churches water down the gospel message to love, love and more love.
    Which is true.

    But what about the justice, as you've said.
    What about having a place to go where we're shielded from the ideas of the world? Where we could fraternize with those who believe the same as we do?
    No. It's made easier, it's watered so that more maybe may go to church.

    So instead of the world becoming like the church...
    The church becomes like the world.

    Well said.
     
Loading...