Regarding the Holy Spirit and His gifts I believe...

[Frank Lee]

Wow...thank you for those.
Praise God.

I do not find the ways of God hard to figure out at all, btw.
His works do not seem mysterious to me, either. LOL!
When we put our thinking caps on...nothing is really confusing about anything!

Isaiah 45:15 KJVS
Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

Romans 11:33 KJVS
O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Isaiah 55:8-9 KJVS
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord .
[9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

I'm not there yet.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Isaiah 45:15 KJVS
Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.
Romans 11:33 KJVS
O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Isaiah 55:8-9 KJVS
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord .
[9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

I'm not there yet.

Haha...ya know what changed the course or focus of my life in
1 day? Reading this: Jeremiah 9:23? If I may type it from memory: pretty darn close, lol..

..let the rich man not boast (glory in) his riches.
And let the wise man not boast of his wisdom...
and let the strong man not boast of his strength.
But, he who does boast (!!)....let him boast of THIS,
That he knows and understand me....so saith the Lord...
(my caps)
I was dumb struck. What? We can KNOW and understand the Mind of God?
The Heart of God? God Himself? Ourselves?

Bingo...and off I went...so far so good!
Because that was my direction and steadfast intent, (I think.Ha, Since we receive what our
attention is on ...love or problems, whatever...what a man thinketh..)
He Himself has revealed so many things about Himself personally to me as I sit
stunned and in awe...one after another even 2 years apart in a sudden 'moment' of
Divine Revelation (comes from revealed!).

I will only say this 1 thing..in every single thing...and there are no coincidences...
all is for you for one purpose...for you to give
your heart completely to Him..completely...no more thought of self, ego by the wayside.
When we look at each event on our life with that in mind...we see with diff eyes.
And we see God at work and His perfection...while others are scratching their heads....

 

[amadeus]

Now if one speaks ‘babble’ because it is determined that it is not a language at all that edifies someone, I would say it is not by the work of God at all. It is from one’s own works and desires. Some then will say that it is just a language communicated in the spirit and only to God and no one else. I’m not so convinced even that this is truth.

Who is it that determines it is 'babble'? What is 'babble' or 'Babel' or 'Babylon' other than confusion? All of in the flesh were born confused.

Would anyone say that because a naturally baby of the flesh when it first talk makes only "babbling" sounds that the baby was never born at all or that he is one very stuck in confusion individual? In time most babies will move from a seemingly meaningless babble to a meaningful ability to converse with others effectively and understand what others are saying. This is where it all starts in the flesh. Is this not also a type of shadow of that which is real in our communication with God, with our growth toward God?

Jesus spoke in parables, but even His closest followers did not fully understand in the beginning even after He explained a parable to them they still at times were quite dense. The real change, the beginning of real understanding occurs at that meeting in the upper room on that Day of Pentecost about 2000 years ago. Jesus gave the explanation with regard to parables which also is the explanation with regard to unknown tongues, but who understood it then and who understands it now?

"He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them." Matt 13:11-17

Some people really receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost and speak only in 'babble' initially, but when the babble does not develop into a real means of communication, is it not because their growth toward God has been stunted? Is it not because they have quenched the Holy Spirit of God in them? When a preacher or teacher insists that no one should speak in tongues at all or that they should only speak in tongues when the person in authority has given them the 'go ahead', is that not teaching a person to quench the Holy Spirit even though the apostle Paul wrote:

"Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues." I Cor 14:39

And consider Jesus's rebuke to his disciples when they raised questions about those not walking with their special little group:

"And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us." Luke 9:49-50

And Paul also wrote:

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

 

[VictoryinJesus]

All glory to Him, but this entire post is beyond words to describe the blessing to me.

The Son of God spoke Spirit fluently. An incorruptible tongue. Without guile. Without perversion.
The Spirit (Christ) if he be there does the interpretation as "teacher" given to profit the entire body. Not edifying of just self.

Yes, all glory be to God. Also consider (Colossians 1:13) "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:" (Translated) us from the power of darkness into the light. "The word made flesh" being that light which came into the world and the world comprehended it not." Consider how many times Jesus warned the world will not hear my voice. Why? Because His voice is not of this world. (Acts 8:30) "And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?"..."Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus." The Pharisees read scripture every Sabbath but the word says they did not know the voice of the prophets nor did they know Jesus Christ … for if they had they would not have crucified him. The dread words: "depart from me, I never knew you." We are told to seek first the kingdom of heaven. Instead we seek individuality and look after our own things.

The example of tongues used today is well received by the world. Everyone wants their own special language. They will fight to keep it (their individual tongue) yet they all sound alike. YouTube will teach you how to speak in tongues. You can go to school for it. Line it up with the scripture. They will defend that it is of God when it is confusion and separates each man into his own private place rather than being of "One accord" in Christ(of a sound mind). The kingdom of heaven is to look after the things of another. To be a steward. That was the example given in the Son. "be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind." (Transformed, translated, transferred, changed.) (Hebrews 11:5) "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God." The only one that pleases God is the Son; Christ.

 

[amadeus]

Consider this video. It is the only link I could find for it and don’t really agree with the woman I guess that posted it thinking it is funny. But that is what Christianity has: become a mockery. We flop, jerk, laugh uncontrollably, twich and fall over when hands touch us as it knocked over by the power of God. How can we not see this manifestation feeds the flesh while we are to come together as a body to edify another in Spirit. I’m sorry that people I’ve come to love and care about will think I am being rude. God is not the author of confusion. Man(the flesh) is the author of confusion. God gives a sound mind, not one delirious. I could pull countless video of Kenneth Copeland, Heidi, and all preaching prosperity of the world and it all pushes the satisfaction of the flesh. The baptism of God is crucifixion of flesh. Please listen to what a nonbeliever says after going to church:

1 Corinthians 14:23-25
[23] If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? [24] But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: [25] And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

So then let them call us mad as they called Jesus a devil. He was not a devil and we are not mad, no matter what any mockers might believe.

We cannot control the thoughts or misunderstandings of others. We also cannot correct those who speak in tongues in their flesh instead of being led by the Holy Spirit. God is putting forth His truth and those who cannot open their hearts to it will in the end walk away from it. Even the 12 were challenged by Jesus:

"But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?" John 6:64-67

They were challenged but Peter answers for them:

"Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God." John 6:68-69

They said the right things in that moment of challenge, but we know that it was after that that Judas betrayed Him, that Peter denied Him and they all ran away fearing for their own flesh.

They did not yet have the Holy Ghost leading them and opening their eyes and their ears.

Is there anything that we do not yet fully understand? Do any of us now live by faith in and toward God rather than complete understanding and knowledge on every point?

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

 

[faithfulness]

Yes, all glory be to God. Also consider (Colossians 1:13) "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:" (Translated) us from the power of darkness into the light. "The word made flesh" being that light which came into the world and the world comprehended it not." Consider how many times Jesus warned the world will not hear my voice. Why? Because His voice is not of this world. (Acts 8:30) "And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?"..."Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus." The Pharisees read scripture every Sabbath but the word says they did not know the voice of the prophets nor did they know Jesus Christ … for if they had they would not have crucified him. The dread words: "depart from me, I never knew you." We are told to seek first the kingdom of heaven. Instead we seek individuality and look after our own things.

The example of tongues used today is well received by the world. Everyone wants their own special language. They will fight to keep it (their individual tongue) yet they all sound alike. YouTube will teach you how to speak in tongues. You can go to school for it. Line it up with the scripture. They will defend that it is of God when it is confusion and separates each man into his own private place rather than being of "One accord" in Christ(of a sound mind). The kingdom of heaven is to look after the things of another. To be a steward. That was the example given in the Son. "be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind." (Transformed, translated, transferred, changed.) (Hebrews 11:5) "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God." The only one that pleases God is the Son; Christ.

I've been transfixed while considering line upon line...the clincher for me...The only one that pleases God is the Son.

 

[Frank Lee]

There are some good posts here. I wish I could say I understood all that God was doing. It's not given to any man to know all the mind of God. He's simply too big.

Romans 11:33-34 KJVS
O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
[34] For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

God is like a massive diamond with millions of facets. Each of us is given a view of certain of His facets.

Once He gave me a short but very insightful dream. I saw an indescribably huge block of perfect marble stone. It's height, width and length went off into infinity. It's surface was so perfect that nothing could tarnish it. This represented God's character.

At one bottom corner there was a tiny being, dwarfed by the sheer size of the rock. He had a bucket of black paint that he tossed onto a small part of the rock but it just simply slid off and wouldn't stick at all. The being was Satan who continually tries to cast all sorts bad things ion God's flawless nature. Everything bad that happens to us he screams is proof of God's moves against us. But we must not allow them to stick. Things can and will happen in this life that will test our faith beyond anything we imagine. Death and loneliness, sickness, pain and every imaginable affliction. I try to imagine Corrie Ten Boom and her sister Betsy in Ravensbruck Nazi death camp continuing to believe that God was still for them as the smoke from the ovens billowed skyward.

These things, testimonies, are encouragements for us. Seeing others come through afflictions that are worse than anything that we'll likely ever face helps our sometimes faltering faith.

The dream must have been over 35 years ago but I still well remember it.

I hope I've allowed enough of Him into me so that nothing Satan throws my way sticks. It is indeed a continual fight of faith. Thank God for the Holy Spirit He sent to live within us.

I would like all of you to know that I appreciate you and your positive inputs. Too bad we can't all get together and start a Christian assembly where we could rejoice, sing and praise God, pray for needs, encourage and uplift and attempt to be a scriptural congregation.

Since that's not going to be possible we'll have to be satisfied with this venue. Thank God we have this much! It's entirely possible that in the future the powers of government will take away our liberty to even meet here in cyberspace. Places like China and some of the middle east are already oppressed and policed in an attempt to stamp out any vestige of Christian conversation and interaction.

So then, let me thank God for this present liberty to freely express our hearts regarding the great God who has given us such a common red thread of salvation. Amen

 

[VictoryinJesus]

So then let them call us mad as they called Jesus a devil. He was not a devil and we are not mad, no matter what any mockers might believe.

We cannot control the thoughts or misunderstandings of others. We also cannot correct those who speak in tongues in their flesh instead of being led by the Holy Spirit. God is putting forth His truth and those who cannot open their hearts to it will in the end walk away from it. Even the 12 were challenged by Jesus:

"But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?" John 6:64-67

They were challenged but Peter answers for them:

"Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God." John 6:68-69

They said the right things in that moment of challenge, but we know that it was after that that Judas betrayed Him, that Peter denied Him and they all ran away fearing for their own flesh.

They did not yet have the Holy Ghost leading them and opening their eyes and their ears.

Is there anything that we do not yet fully understand? Do any of us now live by faith in and toward God rather than complete understanding and knowledge on every point?

"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed." John 20:29

The preaching of the cross is foolishness to those without ears to hear. To us, it is not foolish...the message is very clear. Legion was considered a madman but it wasn’t that the man was mad that freightened others that came to see him with Jesus; it was that the madman was fully clothed and in his right mind. There is confusion. And then there is God who gives us a sound mind in Him and for the first time the confusion clears as light breaksforth in the day. It doesn’t say anywhere God wants us to act foolish and mad so we can wear the title. The problem is in the ears of the one hearing. God never changes. He is the same today as in the Old Testament. We are not mad but (hopefully) upright and of a sound mind for the first time which is the power of God. So that:1 Corinthians 14:25 “And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.”


Deuteronomy 28:28-29
[28] The Lord shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart: [29] And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee.

Luke 6:11-12
[11] And they were filled with madness; and communed one with another what they might do to Jesus. [12] And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.

Mark 7:36-37
[36] And he charged them that they should tell no man: but the more he charged them, so much the more a great deal they published it ; [37] And were beyond measure astonished, saying, He hath done all things well: he maketh both the deaf to hear, and the dumb to speak.

I’m sorry Amadeus. You certainly have the right to believe what you choose on the topic, but so do I.

 

[amadeus]

The preaching of the cross is foolishness to those without ears to hear. To us, it is not foolish...the message is very clear. Legion was considered a madman but it wasn’t that the man was mad that freightened others that came to see him with Jesus; it was that the madman was fully clothed and in his right mind. There is confusion. And then there is God who gives us a sound mind in Him and for the first time the confusion clears as light breaksforth in the day. It doesn’t say anywhere God wants us to act foolish and mad so we can wear the title. The problem is in the ears of the one hearing. God never changes. He is the same today as in the Old Testament. We are not mad but (hopefully) upright and of a sound mind for the first time which is the power of God. So that:1 Corinthians 14:25 “And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.”


Deuteronomy 28:28-29
[28] The Lord shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart: [29] And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee.

Luke 6:11-12
[11] And they were filled with madness; and communed one with another what they might do to Jesus. [12] And it came to pass in those days, that he went out into a mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.

Mark 7:36-37
[36] And he charged them that they should tell no man: but the more he charged them, so much the more a great deal they published it ; [37] And were beyond measure astonished, saying, He hath done all things well: he maketh both the deaf to hear, and the dumb to speak.

I’m sorry Amadeus. You certainly have the right to believe what you choose on the topic, but so do I.

With what you posted here, we are not necessarily in disagreement although when amplified by each of us too much according our flesh instead of His Spirit we might be. Remember Luke 9:49-50.

What is madness? Running around the church house according to the flesh would be madness, but if it is according to the Spirit, it certainly would not be. Are both possibilities with God?

Speaking in tongues according to flesh and according to the Spirit could also be possible, no...?

"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible." Mark 10:27

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Remember Luke 9:49-50.

Thank you for the reminder. It was needed.

 

[Enoch111]

Who is it that determines it is 'babble'?

As Paul noted in 1 Cor 14:23: If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Babble cannot be interpreted either: Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. (v 13)

Many have sought to establish whether modern tongues are actual languages, but have all concluded that they are NOT languages but babbling.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Everyone wants their own special language.
(Hebrews 11:5) "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God." The only one that pleases God is the Son; Christ.

I was with ya...
but I never thought once of wanting my special language, so that sentence did not ring true.

I didn't understand, you remind us of Enoch, O Enoch! Oh the love God had for Enoch!
David, too!
Then, this sentence that the Son is the ONLY one that pleases Him.
Before I comment more...how can you say that? Thank you.....only is the word in question.

Oh, Faithfulness...you can comment also if you wish since you agree.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

I would like to say...across the board...if someone does not Speak/Pray in Tongues...
that is fine with me ...but if you do not...
I just skip over any speculative commentaries you make.
You have no idea what it is like or all that it does.
I will not listen if you tell me about a dentist you have not gone to personally either...!!
if you just read a review or saw a commercial.
I made that mistake with a mechanic, a chiropractor and an animal Vet...never
again...I ask now ...
"Have you gone yourself."

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I was with ya...
but I never thought once of wanting my special language, so that sentence did not ring true.

I didn't understand, you remind us of Enoch, O Enoch! Oh the love God had for Enoch!
David, too!
Then, this sentence that the Son is the ONLY one that pleases Him.
Before I comment more...how can you say that? Thank you.....only is the word in question.

Oh, Faithfulness...you can comment also if you wish since you agree.

By faith Enoch pleased God. Faith is in Christ. Same with David. Consider Psalms which David wrote inspired by the Holy Spirit: Psalm 22:16-18
[16] For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet. [17] I may tell all my bones: they look and stare upon me. [18] They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

Genesis 8:21-22
[21] And the Lord smelled a sweet savour; and the Lord said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done. [22] While the earth remaineth, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night shall not cease.

The sweet savour the Lord smelled is mercy found in the Son. The earth remains because the Son. There is seedtime because the seed is the Son. There is a harvest because of the Son. There is summer, winter, day and night because of the Son. It is the Son that pleases God. This is for His name sake: John 15:16 “Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.”

Yes, the faithfulness of the Son. It is the mercy upon us through the Son that pleases God. That sweet savour. It is not demeaning or saying God doesn’t love us...but rather He made it so: for mercy is not earned but rather given. Blessings Miss Hepburn.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Thanks...yes, God does love faith...I KNOW!

 

[Frank Lee]

Faith is the coin of heaven's realm.

Once drove fifty miles on an empty gas tank. Faith was all I had to spend. I praised the car to work. Every time my praise fell off the car would start coughing and missing. I increased my praise and it smoothed out. God took me.

He honors praise but it will make the flesh very uncomfortable.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

....Once drove fifty miles on an empty gas tank. Faith was all I had to spend. I praised the car to work. Every time my praise fell off the car would start coughing and missing. I increased my praise and it smoothed out. God took me.

I know, I'm not surprised... Spirit or God which created and sustains this place are more powerful than
matter and motor...when will people realize this! LOL! Hahahaha

 

[Frank Lee]

Now if only I could figure out how to escape chronic pain and be healed.

 

[amadeus]

As Paul noted in 1 Cor 14:23: If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?

Babble cannot be interpreted either: Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. (v 13)

Many have sought to establish whether modern tongues are actual languages, but have all concluded that they are NOT languages but babbling.

And all of these who checked out the tongue talkers were experts who also spoke in unknown tongues, right? There are also many atheists out there, [experts also no doubt] who have concluded that there is no God. Should we follow the ways and the conclusions of the experts or should we follow God?

"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts." Isaiah 55:8-9

His thoughts and His ways are far beyond us. Only with His help are they discernible. Why should it be different with a tongue or language from God?

 

[amadeus]

Faith is the coin of heaven's realm.

Once drove fifty miles on an empty gas tank. Faith was all I had to spend. I praised the car to work. Every time my praise fell off the car would start coughing and missing. I increased my praise and it smoothed out. God took me.

He honors praise but it will make the flesh very uncomfortable.

I also once had this experience of driving a car on an empty tank of gas. I was on God's business and there was no money to fill the tank.