Eternal Security

[Jun2u]

Yes, His attributes, not His DNA.

What is the difference? Spiritually, they are the same. It is just semantics.

If we can't understand it, then why do you pretend to? Yeshua did not have "Fathers". He has one Father which is why he said, "my Father" 58 times in the NT and NEVER said, "my Fathers". The Holy Spirit is not a third person. It is the power, mind and Spirit of the Father.

But I do understand because I am a child of God. I mentioned finite mind only because it is a fundamental truth. I of course listens to my Shepherd and because God has revealed truths only to His elect. But it’s not too late for anyone, even for you, for it is still the day of salvation. Don’t harden your heart.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Helen]

1) So basically you're admitting that I'm right and that I have the difference between the old and new covenant stated correctly since doing so on your part would not be that difficult ... if you know it.

2) What we've been discussing all these months is obedience...
you seem to think it's not necessary and I believe the N.T. declares that it is.

#1 NO never...cannot agree in what you feel is "right".

#2 The necessity of our obedience is to "Abide in Him.."
"The Author and FINISHER of our faith. " Heb 12:2

. Blessings...Helen

 

[gadar perets]

What is the difference? Spiritually, they are the same. It is just semantics.

YHWH is not a physical being. Therefore, He does not have DNA.

But I do understand because I am a child of God. I mentioned finite mind only because it is a fundamental truth. I of course listens to my Shepherd and because God has revealed truths only to His elect.

I am a child of YHWH and one His elect. I have the mind of Messiah and have been taught the truth. I listen to my Shepherds as they teach me through the Spirit and the Word.

 

[Stranger]

There was NO CONDITION set upon Abraham to do anything.
The Abrahamic Covenant was UNILATERAL.

God passed through the cut parts of the animals because ONLY GOD made the covenant and Abraham had nothing to do with it.

Also, First you said there was a condition on Abraham which was to leave his land...
THEN you said, in your last sentence, that Abraham was not bound to fulfill anything in the Abrahamic Covenant.

Your last sentence is the correct one.

P.S. I don't even know what you mean with the first paragraph so I'm leaving it alone unless you wish to explain it better. YAHWEH made all the Covenants, NOT YESHUA.

In order for God to establish His covenant with Abraham, Abraham was required to leave his home and go to the promised land. (Gen. 12:1-3)

I believe I said, Abraham was not bound to fulfill anything in the covenant. God bound Himself to fulfill all. Thus why the 'Huh' earlier if you agree.

I was very clear in what I said in the first paragraph. If you don't want to understand it that is fine, but I can't explain it any better.

Stranger

 

[Enoch111]

Jesus is Lord,,,not LORD.

How about BOTH? Would you have a problem with that?

 

[BobRyan]

It is a circular thing. Love fulfills the commandments....and His commandments are to love. The love of God automatically keeps His commandments...this isn't something we need to try to do. Love does it.

On the other hand - the Bible says --

1Cor 9
"I buffet my body and make it my slave - lest after preaching the Gospel to others I myself should be disqualified from it" 1 Cor 9:27

1 Cor 6
"7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you;

Romans 11
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

Rom 2
3 But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who will render to each person according to his deeds: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life;


So we could be legalistic and refuse the Gospel, refuse to surrender to Christ ,, and merely offer lip service... some "token act" by which we might suppose we are in God's favor. Or we could accept the actual New Birth, New Creation, New Covenant of the Law of God written on the heart.

 

[BobRyan]

In order for God to establish His covenant with Abraham, Abraham was required to leave his home and go to the promised land. (Gen. 12:1-3)

I believe I said, Abraham was not bound to fulfill anything in the covenant. God bound Himself to fulfill all. Thus why the 'Huh' earlier if you agree.

Genesis 26
4 I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.”

 

[BobRyan]

The basic difference between the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant is that the New Covenant is not between God and you or me. It is between The Father and the Son.

I see some creative writing there.

Here is what the New Covenant actually says - according to the Bible.

"THIS IS the New Covenant that I will make WITH the house of Israel and the house of Judah.. I will write my LAW on their heart and mind" Jeremiah 31:31-33, Hebrews 8:6-12.

Bible "details"

 

[djstav]

Eternal security is real.
It's what makes Christianity alive!
When we are filled with the Holy Spirit, we know we are with God and all his promises are ours.

Romans 11:29-32;
29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.
30 Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience,
31 so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you.
32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

What this says is all we have to do is receive it and we have eternal security.
But don't kid yourself.
One who is truly filled with the Spirit of God will never give up their eternal security.

We receive this eternal security because of God's mercy on us.
Ever hear of the Mercy Seat of Christ?
If we believe, we will be there.

Praise the Lord!

Is eternal security something you can gain on your own, or is it something only God can give you?

 

[Stranger]

Genesis 26
4 I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.”

(Gen. 26:5) "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

As I have said, Abraham did obey God in leaving Ur. That was necessary before God established His Covenant with him. That is not a stipulation in the Covenant.

There were no written commandments, laws, or statutes.

The passing on of the Covenant to Isaac was due to Abraham's obedience before God, not due to Isaac's.

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

I see some creative writing there.

Here is what the New Covenant actually says - according to the Bible.

"THIS IS the New Covenant that I will make WITH the house of Israel and the house of Judah.. I will write my LAW on their heart and mind" Jeremiah 31:31-33, Hebrews 8:6-12.

Bible "details"

And what was necessary for that Covenant to be established?

What does it mean that Christ was 'surety' of a better testament? (Heb. 7:22) That He is the 'mediator' of a better covenant built upon better promises? (Heb. 8:6)

In (Jer. 31:31-34) how many times does the LORD say "I will"?

Stranger

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Is eternal security something you can gain on your own, or is it something only God can give you?

I explained that in my Romans quote.

 

[GodsGrace]

Of course it was bi-lateral. So is the New Covenant. YHWH will do x,y,z if the people will believe in His Son Yeshua. The moment they stop believing in Yeshua and renounce him is the moment they break the New Covenant and are lost forever.

There are two major covenants in the Bible. One is the Mosaic covenant which is a covenant of law, this was conditional. God said do this, obey and he will bless, failure to obey violated his conditions and punishment followed. the New Testaments covenant is one of blood but based on grace, it is unconditional. We receive the mercy and blessings of God not because of anything we do but because of what Christ did. As believers in the New Covenant we operate under grace by which good works are a result. Under the Law (Old covenant) good works were done to receive Gods favor yet there still had to be a sacrifice for sin. As it says that almost all things are cleansed by blood.

source: New covenant

I will not argue something that is accepted as normal Christian theology.
95% of theologians accept the above...the NEW COVENANT is an UNCONDITONAL Covenant, which also means UNI-LATERAL.

I don't make the theology....it's already made.

 

[GodsGrace]

For one...Philip was transported by the Spirit from one town to the next. And he wasn't God. I think you may have a difficult time with the humanity of Jesus. We can do all things through Christ.

Yes. I DO have a problem with this.
I haven't been transported to any cities lately; although I would like to be.
Maybe Jesus meant this in a different way?
Maybe He meant that He was confined to doing His work in the area of Israel while we will be able to bring His message to the whole world....WE, His messengers.

 

[GodsGrace]

#1 NO never...cannot agree in what you feel is "right".

#2 The necessity of our obedience is to "Abide in Him.."
"The Author and FINISHER of our faith. " Heb 12:2

. Blessings...Helen

Oh Helen...what to do with your posts??

First of all, nothing has anything to do with what "I feel is right".
I always back up what I'm saying with scripture and/or theological beliefs.
If you're going to disagree with me, it's not enough to just state this....you have to back it up with something....otherwise it become "just YOUR feeling of what is right!

As to #2....abiding in Him means to LIVE with Jesus...
To live with Jesus means to obey Him.

The author and finisher of our faith...
Hebrews 12:1-3
1Therefore, since we have so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also lay aside every encumbrance and the sin which so easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
2fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3For consider Him who has endured such hostility by sinners against Himself, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

Verse 1
The cloud of witnesses are the O.T. saints who have gone before us and did not have the PROMISE...the cross of Christ. We are to set aside sins that so easily beset us through the power of Jesus' cross...if we set aside sins, we are obeying God. But HE, through the Holy Spirit, helps us to accomplish this.
We are to run the race that is set before us. WE ARE to run the race,,,The N.T. teaches us that WE must do what Jesus asks of us,,,HE did not already do everything for us. WE are to run the race, just as Paul ran the race.
2 Timothy 4:7


Verse 2
Jesus is the author and finisher of our race...HE will most certainly hold us in the race if we FIX OUR EYES on Him, as is stated in verse 2. If we take our eyes off of Him, He will not be able to help us finish the race. We must ABIDE in Him, as you said.
Mathew 14:30 When Peter fixed his attention of the wind instead of Jesus, he began to sink. If we don't keep our eyes on the Lord, we WILL sink.


Verse 3
Jesus finished the race. He put up with the hostility of the Jewish leaders, He accepted the cross -- HE never took His eyes off His goal; just as we are to do.
And when we feel we're losing...we just need to remember HIS story and we'll get our strength back to continue.

 

[GodsGrace]

How about BOTH? Would you have a problem with that?

Lord means Jesus.
LORD means Yaweh.

Then we have to take into consideration that this was not always considered in the O.T. So, yes, sometimes it might say LORD but really we could understand that it was the Son (Lord) and not the Father since the Father was never seen.

If I remember it seems to me that the Father did appear to Moses one time but Moses only saw His back. When Father appeared to Moses as the burning bush, He was again not seen.

There is one verse where this distinction is important and that's in
Psalm 110:1
1The LORD says to my Lord:
“Sit at My right hand
Until I make Your enemies a footstool for Your feet.”

Not sure this answers your question.
There is only one God,,,but the "persons" within Him are distinct.

 

[djstav]

I explained that in my Romans quote.

I'm trying to point out something.

If eternal security is in the believer's hands, then you will always have assurance that you are saved.

If eternal security is in Gods hands, then your assurance lay's with him, not you.

Where talking about salvation here, right? (It's just tagged eternal security) But it's about how one knows they are truly saved. But how can anyone know they are actually saved by believing in God? You have to believe, right? So that's something you do, right?

So which is it

In your hands?
In Gods hands?

You see the mental back flips one has to think to work out something that is incoherent.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I'm trying to point out something.

If eternal security is in the believer's hands, then you will always have assurance that you are saved.

If eternal security is in Gods hands, then your assurance lay's with him, not you.

Where talking about salvation here, right? (It's just tagged eternal security) But it's about how one knows they are truly saved. But how can anyone know they are actually saved by believing in God? You have to believe, right? So that's something you do, right?

So which is it

In your hands?
In Gods hands?

You see the mental back flips one has to think to work out something that is incoherent.

Bible Gateway
1 John 2:19-20;
"They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth."

 

[GodsGrace]

In order for God to establish His covenant with Abraham, Abraham was required to leave his home and go to the promised land. (Gen. 12:1-3)

I believe I said, Abraham was not bound to fulfill anything in the covenant. God bound Himself to fulfill all. Thus why the 'Huh' earlier if you agree.

I was very clear in what I said in the first paragraph. If you don't want to understand it that is fine, but I can't explain it any better.

Stranger

Here's what you said in post 899:

The New Covenant is but a part of the Abrahamic Covenant. It too pertains to Israel but we in the Church come into it under the blessings aspect. (Gen. 12:3) The only condition Abraham was under was in leaving his home to go to the land God had promised. The agreement between the two parties concerning the covenant would not come until much later while he was in the land. (Gen. 15:17-21) Abraham would take the covenant animals and cut them in half, and no doubt expected to pass between the parts with God showing they were in covenant together. But God didn't do that. He put Abraham to sleep, and God passed between the parts.

The above sounds like you're saying it was a bi-lateral covenant.
Maybe it's not what you meant...
It was not an agreement between two parties (that would be bi-lateral)...
it was A UNI-LATERAL agreement.

As to the first paragraph,,,,I don't know, this is a thread about eternal security.
This is a serious derail.

 

[BobRyan]

In order for God to establish His covenant with Abraham, Abraham was required to leave his home and go to the promised land. (Gen. 12:1-3)

I believe I said, Abraham was not bound to fulfill anything in the covenant. God bound Himself to fulfill all. Thus why the 'Huh' earlier if you agree.

Genesis 26
So Isaac went to Gerar, to Abimelech king of the Philistines. 2 The Lord appeared to him and said, “Do not go down to Egypt; stay in the land of which I shall tell you. 3 Sojourn in this land and I will be with you and bless you, for to you and to your descendants I will give all these lands, and I will establish the oath which I swore to your father Abraham.
4 I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven, and will give your descendants all these lands; and by your descendants all the nations of the earth shall be blessed; 5 because Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws.”

(Gen. 26:5) "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."

As I have said, Abraham did obey God in leaving Ur. That was necessary before God established His Covenant with him. That is not a stipulation in the Covenant.

There were no written commandments, laws, or statutes.

God tells Isaac that the covenant made with Abraham is made with Isaac "because" Abraham obeyed Me and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws and of course "sin IS" by definition "transgression of the LAW" 1 John 3:4

Your point that God's commandments, statutes, laws were not in "written form" at the time - is a nonissue. God's Word says they existed and His Word says Abraham obeyed them. This is Moses writing in Genesis 26... and Moses uses that same phrase in several places to identify God's commandments, statutes and laws

Your argument at this point is "with the text"