Eternal Security

[Rollo Tamasi]

You are calling GodsGrace a non-Christian??

Didn't mean that.
She got caught in the middle...

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Why are you directing this comment to ME?

Sorry, made a mistake...again...

 

[GodsGrace]

Sorry, made a mistake...again...

Thank you God for agape love!
I forgive you --- just don't ever do this again!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

yes dear

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus seemed to go to some lengths to portray Himself as Son of Man tho Rollo, He even hid from the "Two Greeks" etc?

 

[APAK]

@GodsGrace

Ok I'll start on this commentary; slowly!

And incidentally, these verses are not selected as an initial salvo where I expect incoming back at me. They are not just packed into a shot gun cartridge like BBs and shot out at you as an overwhelming use of force in a scatter pattern. It is presented as a work of art where the verses map and meld together that reveals a big picture that salvation is truly assured. I did not write these words, I just arranged them for easier understanding. God's men, the apostles, and Christ himself, wrote them down for me as they surely knew that salvation was secure.

I know you and many others say that OSAS is a Calvinistic invention and use it to overpower or shout over folks that think differently. That is completely wrong and is a cheap shot with no substance - like politicizing holy things. I say it is God's invention and purpose and was written down as scripture in the 1st century, before the Romanists and others twisted and melded it into their own religion.

Remember, that this relation with God through Christ to salvation is a spiritual relationship designed and executed by God and his grace. He has the will and power to cause it to happen and he has the power to disband it. We cannot or do not have the power to be saved by ourselves and we surely cannot un-save ourselves. It is a holy affair and not a human worldly relationship thing. We do have some power in this respect and we use this power everyday to live and socialize with others...etc.

Ok let me start my 'holy sculpture' for you.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[GodsGrace]

@GodsGrace

Ok I'll start on this commentary; slowly!

And incidentally, these verses are not selected as an initial salvo where I expect incoming back at me. They are not just packed into a shot gun cartridge like BBs and shot out at you as an overwhelming use of force in a scatter pattern. It is presented as a work of art where the verses map and meld together that reveals a big picture that salvation is truly assured. I did not write these words, I just arranged them for easier understanding. God's men, the apostles, and Christ himself, wrote them down for me as they surely knew that salvation was secure.

I know you and many others say that OSAS is a Calvinistic invention and use it to overpower or shout over folks that think differently. That is completely wrong and is a cheap shot with no substance - like politicizing holy things. I say it is God's invention and purpose and was written down as scripture in the 1st century, before the Romanists and others twisted and melded it into their own religion.

Remember, that this relation with God through Christ to salvation is a spiritual relationship designed and executed by God and his grace. He has the will and power to cause it to happen and he has the power to disband it. We cannot or do not have the power to be saved by ourselves and we surely cannot un-save ourselves. It is a holy affair and not a human worldly relationship thing. We do have some power in this respect and we use this power everyday to live and socialize with others...etc.

Ok let me start my 'holy sculpture' for you.

Bless you,

APAK

I do want to say that I believe in eternal security in the sense that if we remain in Christ we are saved. I don't believe sinning makes us lose our salvation...I believe abandoning God causes us to lose our salvation...IOW, not remaining in the Kingdom.

I also don't believe in the shot gun method...And will not answer verse with verse but will answer to YOUR verse.

 

[gadar perets]

I admit this is arguably one of the most difficult passages of scripture to interpret clearly and precisely.

It is not about the loss of salvation.

(Heb 6:4) For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
(Heb 6:5) who tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
(Heb 6:6) but then fell away- it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
(Heb 6:7) For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God.
(Heb 6:8) But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is rejected and in danger of being cursed, whose end is to be burned. (NEV)

Let me just suggest why this scripture is not about one losing salvation; even by their own will.

Verse 4- the transliterated term ‘enlightened’ does not mean one who is converted. It usually means a seeker and someone that has taken a deliberate interest, in this case the seed of the gospel.

Verse 4- the expression: ‘ tasted the heavenly gift’ means again a seeker that momentarily or for a very short duration experiences true spiritual effects in their mind and touches the heart (‘partakers of the spirit’). This does not mean again conversion. They are still are not committed in faith and are ‘seen’ tasting. They do not want to drink that is considered faithful commitment for conversion.

Verse 5: the term again ‘tasted’ does not mean commitment and conversion as defined previously. The word of God is especially the word of the gospel and the glimpse into the power of the spirit(s) in their lives.

Verse 6: depicts this seeker as eventually turning away for the truth, and in context of Hebrews, back to the Law, and thus not being converted.

It is then said that these seekers or even fake professing believers if they already repented, which indicated they did already, cannot truly keep repenting again, and even again and again, and each time decide to not commit and be converted.

This non-committal and fake repentance each time, puts Christ back on the cross and shames his serious and real-life changing actions done for all mankind. Like this seeker is saying, I’m sorry for my sins (not really from the heart), please forgive me again and again. If truly converted one’s sins are forgiven once and for all time.

Verses 6 and 7 distinguishes the true convert and the false believer – their futures with be much different.

Scripture is saying, don’t live your life like a phony seeker, a fence sitter, a taster of God and his spirit, because your foolish actions that seem spiritual and holy to you will be destroyed and even cursed.

On the other hand, drinking (earth’s water/rain) being committed and converted with the spirit of Jesus that pleases God will bring blessings and life.

BL: COMMIT to the Lord Jesus as this is what God desires for all mankind - truly believe in his son. Do not go back to your 'old' ways.,,to the Law or your religion.

Bless you,

APAK

I disagree.

(Heb 6:4) For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
​

They were "enlightened" by the receiving the Light of the World into their life. "Tasted" figuratively means to "experience" according to lexicons. These people experienced Yeshua.

(Heb 6:5) who tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
​

They experienced YHWH's words and power.

(Heb 6:6) but then fell away- it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
​

They "fell away" from faith in Yeshua. They once repented of their sins and received Yeshua as Savior. He was crucified for them and they received his death for theirs. Then they fell away from faith in Yeshua and were not permitted to return because that would mean Yeshua needed to be crucified again for them. They brought shame upon Yeshua and will therefore remain in the current state of life without Yeshua.

(Heb 6:7) For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God.
(Heb 6:8) But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is rejected and in danger of being cursed, whose end is to be burned. (NEV)
​

In their return to a fallen state, they do not bear fruit and will be burned.

 

[gadar perets]

In John 9, the blind man is answering the question of whether he is the same person that sat and begged. He basically answered in the affirmative. In John 8:58, Jesus breaks normal grammatical usage to make a claim. The scribes and Pharisees knew what Jesus was saying (they picked up stones to stone Him for blasphemy...John 8:59, John 10:31-33), why don't you?

You and everyone else who believes Yeshua is the great I AM would do well to read the article found here.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

You and everyone else who believes Yeshua is the great I AM would do well to read the article found here.

Jesus is God, period!

 

[Helen]

Jesus is God, period!

Amen to that!

Are you okay? You haven't be around much lately. Missed you.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Amen to that!

Are you okay? You haven't be around much lately. Missed you.

I'm here.
Been picky about where I write.

 

[Nancy]

I admit this is arguably one of the most difficult passages of scripture to interpret clearly and precisely.

It is not about the loss of salvation.

(Heb 6:4) For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit,
(Heb 6:5) who tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come,
(Heb 6:6) but then fell away- it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
(Heb 6:7) For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God.
(Heb 6:8) But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is rejected and in danger of being cursed, whose end is to be burned. (NEV)

Let me just suggest why this scripture is not about one losing salvation; even by their own will.

Verse 4- the transliterated term ‘enlightened’ does not mean one who is converted. It usually means a seeker and someone that has taken a deliberate interest, in this case the seed of the gospel.

Verse 4- the expression: ‘ tasted the heavenly gift’ means again a seeker that momentarily or for a very short duration experiences true spiritual effects in their mind and touches the heart (‘partakers of the spirit’). This does not mean again conversion. They are still are not committed in faith and are ‘seen’ tasting. They do not want to drink that is considered faithful commitment for conversion.

Verse 5: the term again ‘tasted’ does not mean commitment and conversion as defined previously. The word of God is especially the word of the gospel and the glimpse into the power of the spirit(s) in their lives.

Verse 6: depicts this seeker as eventually turning away for the truth, and in context of Hebrews, back to the Law, and thus not being converted.

It is then said that these seekers or even fake professing believers if they already repented, which indicated they did already, cannot truly keep repenting again, and even again and again, and each time decide to not commit and be converted.

This non-committal and fake repentance each time, puts Christ back on the cross and shames his serious and real-life changing actions done for all mankind. Like this seeker is saying, I’m sorry for my sins (not really from the heart), please forgive me again and again. If truly converted one’s sins are forgiven once and for all time.

Verses 6 and 7 distinguishes the true convert and the false believer – their futures with be much different.

Scripture is saying, don’t live your life like a phony seeker, a fence sitter, a taster of God and his spirit, because your foolish actions that seem spiritual and holy to you will be destroyed and even cursed.

On the other hand, drinking (earth’s water/rain) being committed and converted with the spirit of Jesus that pleases God will bring blessings and life.

BL: COMMIT to the Lord Jesus as this is what God desires for all mankind - truly believe in his son. Do not go back to your 'old' ways.,,to the Law or your religion.

Bless you,

APAK

The difference is in just taking a sip, or in drinking His cup...to the fullest. ;)

 

[justbyfaith]

You and everyone else who believes Yeshua is the great I AM would do well to read the article found here.

What the article failed to mention was that the Pharisees said that the reason why they picked up stones to stone Jesus was for blasphemy: and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God (John 10:31-33, esp. v.33).

And concerning Jesus' pre-existence, it should be clear from the statement of John the Baptist in John 1:15 and John 1:30 that Jesus pre-existed, at least the life of John the Baptist. A simple look at Luke chapters 1 and 2 will bear out in your thinking that John the Baptist was physically born first.

Also, in Jesus' trial they were looking for solid evidence that Jesus had committed the sin that they deemed to be worthy of death (which turned out to be blasphemy). Now, the prosecutors could not bear witness at the trial; but they were seeking to evoke a response from the Lord; which they succeeded at doing when Jesus said what He said in Mark 14:61-64. That scripture bears out that He answered in the affirmative when they pointedly asked Him if He was the Son of God (in light of what it says in Isaiah 9:6). It turns out in that scripture that the very reason the scribes and Pharisees put Him on the Cross was for the sin of blasphemy. However, it was not truly blasphemy if Jesus was/is who He claimed to be. And since the scripture testifies that Jesus never sinned, He also was not guilty of the sin of blasphemy; and this indicates that His claim to be the Son of God (and thus the Mighty God, even the Everlasting Father, Isaiah 9:6) was not truly a blasphemous statement because He is who He said He is.

 

[justbyfaith]

edited #1374.

 

[justbyfaith]

I would say that some are predestinated unto damnation for being false teachers, because God foreknew their sin (Jude 1:4, Romans 8:29 (principle of predestination according to foreknowledge), 1 Peter 1:2 (same concept)).

re #1360.

 

[gadar perets]

Jesus is God, period!

You remind me of a parrot who only knows three words, "Jesus is God, Jesus is God, awwkkk!" I feel sorry for you that you are unable to expound upon Scripture.

 

[Helen]

I like #1374 very good..edits an all...
Don't "like" # 1376

 

[justbyfaith]

I like #1374 very good..edits an all...
Don't "like" # 1376

Lol....I don't really like it very much either...!

 

[Helen]

You remind me of a parrot who only knows three words, "Jesus is God, Jesus is God, awwkkk!" I feel sorry for you that you are unable to expound upon Scripture.

Hummm and I wonder why you don't like that..

....