To hell with me

[LC627]

I have often wondered about that very thing. I do not remember who/what/where I heard/read that Justice and fairness with God are to be separated or something? For instance take the vineyard workers...the vineyard owner paid what he promised, and the workers got what they agreed to = justice. But, fairness? Not to the workers who were out there all day sweating! lol.

None of us want God to be fair with us. If so, we all would be going to Hell because we all deserve it. His mercy is a lot better than Him being fair.

 

[Nancy]

None of us want God to be fair with us. If so, we all would be going to Hell because we all deserve it. His mercy is a lot better than Him being fair.

AMEN!

 

[djstav]

If you read the bible like any other book, it could actually be damaging.
If you read the bible and are seeking God, it could help you to discover God.
If you read the bible as a born again believer, it's messages will astound you and make you believe even more.

This is just how it is. The bible is studied like a book in some college courses.
Much of what it has to say must sound rediculous to those students.

1 corinthians 2:14
14But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

P.S. You never replied to my post no. 243 and it seems rather important to me and you brought the subject up.

The "Natural man" What are you referring to here? Your just using a vague verse to make your point. "Natural man" Means a carnal minded person

carnal
ˈkɑːn(ə)l/Submit
adjective
relating to physical, especially sexual, needs and activities.
"carnal desire"
synonyms: sexual, sensual, erotic, lustful, lascivious, libidinous, lecherous, licentious, lewd, prurient, salacious, coarse, gross, lubricious, venereal.

 

[djstav]

well, there's more than one way to rationalize, and we have been trained to think logically, whereas the Bible was written dialectically; plus, you even admit that they have not helped you yet, right. Keep debating beliefs with True Believers if you like, i'm not judging lol, i still do it too.

But i suggest that Scripture is even goading us into (Eastern) dialectic reasoning, as lightning flashes from east to west, as far as east is from west, possibly, plus reading dialectically does not alter any truth, right, whatever the truth is it is not going to go away or change, you are allowed to go back to reasoning logically any time you like, logic is certainly useful for some things, building towers, etc

You have already judged, by the standards of your theology.

 

[djstav]

now you got it, exactly. Your Logic leads you to Your Conclusions which you will hold to be Absolute Truth, and will not keep seeking, asking, knocking for a better perspective after you have arrived at the one that most closely matches your desires. And pls don't misunderstand, i am not telling you that you have to do anything, ok.

I am saying that i know for a fact that Scripture was written like the Tao, dialectically, only brought to an even higher plane, and attempting to interpret logically is "hidden from the wise," God is absolutely communicating to a logical thinker imo, He is communicating that they are to be avoided like the plague, that they will rend each other to pieces, that they will usually become twice the sons of hell they are, it's all over the place.

There are even several ways this could be demonstrated, heck you don't even need me any more lol, you got all the phrases you need to go learn from google now if you want, or post #1 here will give you a direction maybe if you want Logical and Dialectical Reasoning in Scripture. Christ appeared at the rise of Logical (Greek) Reasoning, in one perspective.

Why would any God make it so a person can't use there own rational thinking skills to understand him. Rational thinking skills that God itself created for the good of it's creation, that I don't understand.

 

[djstav]

"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." Sherlock Holmes

Especially when theorizing about eternal consequences.

You're right that there is no hell (not yet). Peter is clear that "the Lord knoweth how to...reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished." That punishment is foretold in Revelation 20:7-9:

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations...And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city (New Jerusalem which has ascended to Mount Moriah): and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."
​

Annihilation, not eternal torment, is the Biblical fate of the wicked. Death. Eternal, everlasting death...a death from which there will be no resurrection.

check out this short video. It may surprise you: www.helltruth.com

No thank you, I am not going to watch some movie about something no one has any evidence for.

 

[bbyrd009]

as far as God is concerned plenty of dead walking around right now that we should be focussed on i guess,
i'm not sure why one would even focus on the literally dead
or why ppl are fascinated by death and skulls, etc
it's a way to distract from a hard truth i think

You have already judged, by the standards of your theology.

ok, maybe, but i am a hypocrite anyway, and i would prefer that a more pertinent point be considered wadr.
Yes, imo it is pointless to debate beliefs, which are not judged;
however that is just one pov, and obv beliefs inform works, so here i am.
Tbh it's the logical/dialectal thing that i would really like to see addressed, and this would take care of the top one i guess.
It'd be great if someone could poke some holes in that

 

[bbyrd009]

Why would any God make it so a person can't use there own rational thinking skills to understand him. Rational thinking skills that God itself created for the good of it's creation, that I don't understand.

my guess would be that the person gets an ego that dictates their choices which will be naturally self-centered, unless/until they change their minds, something like that. I might ask "why does God hide wisdom from the wise?" or "what is the function tares?" or one of several other Qs to illustrate the point, why would someone (supposedly) seeking God end up twice the son of hell? Bc we have free will, and as i think it was you said earlier, God does not force anyone?

Plus i did not say to abandon logic entirely, ok, even though it is likely an invention of men, not a skill that God created.
The skill that God created is dialectic thinking imo, "could be this sometimes, that sometimes, who really knows for sure, we better keep an open mind, and not be writing anything down in stone." As opposed to Logic, which manifests laws, and writing things down in stone, and requires blood of course. The law requires blood, not God, as is commonly believed i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Writing Commandments down on stone even becomes...well, i don't want to say "a joke," but can even be understood as a dialectic concept, Scripture even tells us that we will outgrow this right. So then we are being poked fun at, in a sense; we already know that Law is inadequate

 

[Helen]

Good ones @bbyrd009
Foolish people zip over your posts...but you so often have gems hidden within them.

 

[bbyrd009]

Good ones @bbyrd009
Foolish people zip over your posts...but you so often have gems hidden within them.

well ty, but i doubt i am the first to make the connection there lol. might even be worth a highlight/search maybe, i'll get back to you

 

[GodsGrace]

The "Natural man" What are you referring to here? Your just using a vague verse to make your point. "Natural man" Means a carnal minded person

carnal
ˈkɑːn(ə)l/Submit
adjective
relating to physical, especially sexual, needs and activities.
"carnal desire"
synonyms: sexual, sensual, erotic, lustful, lascivious, libidinous, lecherous, licentious, lewd, prurient, salacious, coarse, gross, lubricious, venereal.

Carnal means flesh...carne in the romance languages.
Flesh means the sin nature.
The natural man has the sin nature and does not have the spirit living within him...so it's difficult for him to understand spiritual matters.

Romans 8:5
Galatians 5:19-21

 

[Phoneman777]

No thank you, I am not going to watch some movie about something no one has any evidence for.

Cool. You just keep on believing God will not do what He says He will...just like the Antediluvians did.

 

[djstav]

Carnal means flesh...carne in the romance languages.
Flesh means the sin nature.
The natural man has the sin nature and does not have the spirit living within him...so it's difficult for him to understand spiritual matters.

Romans 8:5
Galatians 5:19-21

Every living thing has a spirit within it.

 

[djstav]

Cool. You just keep on believing God will not do what He says He will...just like the Antediluvians did.

Where is this hell of yours, can you point out where it is?

 

[GodsGrace]

Every living thing has a spirit within it.

Right.
It depends which one!
Or
Some just don't activate the dormant spirit.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

You're right about this and if the story had been worded differently and brought out the theme more, I would definitely have used it when I used to teach kids in the CC, but as it was and the way kids are these days, it was better not to. I does have a good moral but it's lost in all the babble of wolves speaking to him.


Good point about how communicating with animals was not understood in those days. I know that Catholics understand Francis much more and I agree with you that it's a shame he is known only for loving animals.


I'd have to agree! We know a lot of technical things, but they're wise in ways we know nothing about.
But, I don't know, maybe we need both?



I keep hearing about the Jesuits but I'm very ignorant and have no knowledge about this.

I also don't know about the Jews being our salvation. Who says this??
I do know that the book of Romans states that the Jews will once again become the people of God at some point - maybe in the end of times. (chapters 9 to 11).

You're right about this and if the story had been worded differently and brought out the theme more, I would definitely have used it when I used to teach kids in the CC, but as it was and the way kids are these days, it was better not to. I does have a good moral but it's lost in all the babble of wolves speaking to him.


Good point about how communicating with animals was not understood in those days. I know that Catholics understand Francis much more and I agree with you that it's a shame he is known only for loving animals.


I'd have to agree! We know a lot of technical things, but they're wise in ways we know nothing about.
But, I don't know, maybe we need both?

(The Jesuits are very powerful in worldly things much like the CIA etc and they were infiltrated by Satanist before WW2 and the top were involved with the Zionist Talmud Nazis, as many who were Jesuits claim that there order was over run by this mob that ended up taking it over. not all the Jesuits were of the cunning stealth that worked to undermine Jesus Christ and they say this is so.)

I keep hearing about the Jesuits but I'm very ignorant and have no knowledge about this.

(The Bible passage says that salvation came from the Jews, that people mistake what it truly is on about.)
I also don't know about the Jews being our salvation. Who says this??
I do know that the book of Romans states that the Jews will once again become the people of God at some point - maybe in the end of times. (chapters 9 to 11).

(The True Jews, the people of the books we have in the OT follow will have, or have all the information at hand to come to Jesus Christ if only they would believe who Holy Moses is and what he said. the time line means nothing really.
Maybe when the Zionist Talmud so called Jews do control the whole world from the State they cunningly called Israel and they have created WW3 just like they have created wars for there own ends like WW2 was being played out to there orders. so we have Satanist who support the Talmud Zionist whores plans to dominate the world totally, this is a plan to wipe out most of the population of the world, the Greens political Party's have said that there agenda is to wipe out 80% of the worlds population openly !!! and no one questions about such a madness in the Media. I have to ask why can a moronic Marxist Socialist Party like the Greens get away with such a comment or boast nowadays.
We in Australia have had our major right wing conservative Party become a Socialist Party by stealth, but that PM has just got kicked out now by his own Party as he has nearly totally destroyed the party and he is a man who made his great wealth out of the cunning of the big Banks ripping off millions of people in cunning game plays, I have pointed him out for years who and what he is and who he is in bed with, but the people were to lazy to bother to look into who he is involved with. such organisations are cunning in how they play the games, he is a NWO man that is trying to undermine the whole world under the power of unelected bully's who want to dominate over every Nation like a mongrel dog, its a Socialist Nazi Communist creation under the helm of there creators the Talmud Zionist so called Jews who are Satanist, Anti-Christ that have been working to undermine Christians who truly follow Jesus Christ, because they fear the power that will shine a light on them for the rats that they truly are, just murderers from the beginning as Jesus pointed out that such were ! doing the works of Satan leading the whole world astray, that's what Satan does. that's what the Name Satan means.)

 

[djstav]

Right.
It depends which one!
Or
Some just don't activate the dormant spirit.

The dormant spirit you speak of is dead to God and cut off, this is general Christian theology. There is no act a believer can make to repair their spirit, this is something only your God can do. So when Christians say that I must do something to start the process of salvation, it's not in my hands now is it.

 

[GodsGrace]

(The True Jews, the people of the books we have in the OT follow will have, or have all the information at hand to come to Jesus Christ if only they would believe who Holy Moses is and what he said. the time line means nothing really.
Maybe when the Zionist Talmud so called Jews do control the whole world from the State they cunningly called Israel and they have created WW3 just like they have created wars for there own ends like WW2 was being played out to there orders. so we have Satanist who support the Talmud Zionist whores plans to dominate the world totally, this is a plan to wipe out most of the population of the world, the Greens political Party's have said that there agenda is to wipe out 80% of the worlds population openly !!! and no one questions about such a madness in the Media. I have to ask why can a moronic Marxist Socialist Party like the Greens get away with such a comment or boast nowadays.
We in Australia have had our major right wing conservative Party become a Socialist Party by stealth, but that PM has just got kicked out now by his own Party as he has nearly totally destroyed the party and he is a man who made his great wealth out of the cunning of the big Banks ripping off millions of people in cunning game plays, I have pointed him out for years who and what he is and who he is in bed with, but the people were to lazy to bother to look into who he is involved with. such organisations are cunning in how they play the games, he is a NWO man that is trying to undermine the whole world under the power of unelected bully's who want to dominate over every Nation like a mongrel dog, its a Socialist Nazi Communist creation under the helm of there creators the Talmud Zionist so called Jews who are Satanist, Anti-Christ that have been working to undermine Christians who truly follow Jesus Christ, because they fear the power that will shine a light on them for the rats that they truly are, just murderers from the beginning as Jesus pointed out that such were ! doing the works of Satan leading the whole world astray, that's what Satan does. that's what the Name Satan means.)

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder regarding the Jews.
I see them as very persecuted persons. It seems to me that they do not make up the illuminati or the masons.

They don't believe Jesus was the awaited Messiah...we should just be a good witness to them.

 

[GodsGrace]

The dormant spirit you speak of is dead to God and cut off, this is general Christian theology. There is no act a believer can make to repair their spirit, this is something only your God can do. So when Christians say that I must do something to start the process of salvation, it's not in my hands now is it.

Whose hands is it in?

God makes the first move...He has revealed Himself to us. He desires that all men be saved.

Romans 1:19-20
19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

1 Timothy 2:3-4
3This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

2 Peter 3:9
9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.


Now it's up to you to make a move also.

John 3:16
16“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
4and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

God made you an offer.
Now you have to accept it.
No one could accept it for you.
God has done His part, now you do yours.