To hell with me

[GodsGrace]

So she should miss out, ah, you are missing the fact that Jesus can't heal her. But he can? But why doesn't he, doesn't she have enough faith?

I'm not a word of faith believer. Were you?
I don't expect all of us to be healed of everything,,,that would be heaven.

We don't have an answer for everything, but this I know for sure.
There's a good force and an evil force.
I decided to serve the good force. Call it God.

 

[djstav]

I'm not a word of faith believer. Were you?
I don't expect all of us to be healed of everything,,,that would be heaven.

We don't have an answer for everything, but this I know for sure.
There's a good force and an evil force.
I decided to serve the good force. Call it God.

Let me ask you a question

Will you be happy to be in heaven while you know many people you loved will be in hell? Do you think that everyone you know & love will make it in to heaven?

 

[GodsGrace]

Let me ask you a question

Will you be happy to be in heaven while you know many people you loved will be in hell? Do you think that everyone you know & love will make it in to heaven?

My husband probably won't be in heaven although I can't know for sure ...
So should I join him in the other place?
I don't get your point.

 

[GodsGrace]

Basically your telling me not to use my brain, to turn off my rational thinking skills.

What bb is telling you is that it's one thing to read about a girl you like and it's another thing to date her.

 

[LC627]

Sometimes we think we have to agree with bad doctrines we've been taught....

God says He will repay up to 7 times. But if a man disrespects people and lives to say ...21.....and then is tormented in hell forever for it...how does that work out to be just? What kind of reasoning makes that righteous?

So you believe that Hell is "bad doctrine"?
Man is evil, age does not matter once they are old enough to practice willful sin. Our sins separate us from God.

 

[LC627]

Let me ask you a question

Will you be happy to be in heaven while you know many people you loved will be in hell? Do you think that everyone you know & love will make it in to heaven?

By the way you ask questions it seems as if you are not so much seeking God with true intentions, but are rather questioning Him and pointing out all the areas your emotions tell you to so that you don't have to face your sins and repent. You're seeking to discredit God and find some fault with Him so you can justify why you won't turn to Him. Is there a root of hurt in your life that you blame God for?

John 3:19,20 - And the judgment is based on this fact: God's light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed.

 

[Phoneman777]

Why does hell have to be painful? Is God not satisfied with just separating the wicked, he has to inflict pain on those subjects.

Why I ask.

Four words for "hell" in the Bible and they all mean something different. To which one do you refer? Are you referring to the "fiery, burning, blazing" hell of the Greek "Gehenna"?

 

[Phoneman777]

Although we like to pretend we know what is being spoken about in the Bible, none of us actually know what the afterlife (either WITH Jesus, or WITHOUT) will be like. It may well be that the loss of the hope of Jesus will be suffering such as we can't even imagine. I know that simply the inevitable death of loved ones has caused me more pain than any physical ache or burn I ever had.

Maybe someone should have asked Lazarus...or Eutychus...or any one of the 12 miracle resurrections of the Bible. Wait...not a single one of them who were resurrected had a single thing to say about what was going on while they were dead. Interesting.

Probably had something to do with what the wisest man who ever lived had to say about what happens to people when they die:

"For the living know that they shall die, but THE DEAD KNOW NOT ANYTHING."

 

[Nancy]

Sometimes we think we have to agree with bad doctrines we've been taught....

God says He will repay up to 7 times. But if a man disrespects people and lives to say ...21.....and then is tormented in hell forever for it...how does that work out to be just? What kind of reasoning makes that righteous?

I have often wondered about that very thing. I do not remember who/what/where I heard/read that Justice and fairness with God are to be separated or something? For instance take the vineyard workers...the vineyard owner paid what he promised, and the workers got what they agreed to = justice. But, fairness? Not to the workers who were out there all day sweating! lol.

 

[djstav]

What bb is telling you is that it's one thing to read about a girl you like and it's another thing to date her.

No, that person is basically saying that we must turn off our logical thinking brain when reading the Bible, as if the God of the universe can't reach us with our logic.

 

[djstav]

By the way you ask questions it seems as if you are not so much seeking God with true intentions, but are rather questioning Him and pointing out all the areas your emotions tell you to so that you don't have to face your sins and repent. You're seeking to discredit God and find some fault with Him so you can justify why you won't turn to Him. Is there a root of hurt in your life that you blame God for?

John 3:19,20 - And the judgment is based on this fact: God's light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed.

Judge as you will, you know little of what I've been through.

 

[djstav]

Four words for "hell" in the Bible and they all mean something different. To which one do you refer? Are you referring to the "fiery, burning, blazing" hell of the Greek "Gehenna"?

Which hell? I thought there was only one. (Actually there is none, it's just invisible volcano insurance)

 

[LC627]

Judge as you will, you know little of what I've been through.

I'd like to get to know you, send me a PM if you want to talk. It rains on the just and the unjust, we might have more in common than you think.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'd like to get to know you, send me a PM if you want to talk. It rains on the just and the unjust, we might have more in common than you think.

Ha!
We ALL have more in common than we all think.
It's just that we handle it different ways.

I have a friend that comes crying to me on a regular basis and she has no extraordinary problems. I just listen to her and wish I had her problems.

She knows OF God, but doesn't know God,,,big difference.
Which is what I'm trying to tell @djstav . We could become born again from reading the bible, but it's our DESIRE to KNOW God and want to spend the rest of our life with Him that makes the difference.

I'm rambling.

 

[GodsGrace]

No, that person is basically saying that we must turn off our logical thinking brain when reading the Bible, as if the God of the universe can't reach us with our logic.

If you read the bible like any other book, it could actually be damaging.
If you read the bible and are seeking God, it could help you to discover God.
If you read the bible as a born again believer, it's messages will astound you and make you believe even more.

This is just how it is. The bible is studied like a book in some college courses.
Much of what it has to say must sound rediculous to those students.

1 corinthians 2:14
14But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

P.S. You never replied to my post no. 243 and it seems rather important to me and you brought the subject up.

 

[GodsGrace]

I would say that the story would not of been understood by myself when I was a child as well but only due to having the Holy Spirit.
It's been many years ago that I read that story, but the wolf does not have to speak in human words, but dogs do speak in there actions and make noises one can understand.

You're right about this and if the story had been worded differently and brought out the theme more, I would definitely have used it when I used to teach kids in the CC, but as it was and the way kids are these days, it was better not to. I does have a good moral but it's lost in all the babble of wolves speaking to him.

I went to a mates place that lives with his mum and dad, I only see him once a year like as it's a 4 hour drive, now they have a new dog and my mates mum came and said the dog was trying to tell her that some one was hear, not barking but making like worried perplexed noises, it's a true bread blue dog and they are real smart as are a Wolf they are a real smart dog.
When St Frances went and did this no one back in the day would of believed it, they thought that he would of been killed for sure, but Frances having a great understanding of humans and we are an animal as well, so it does not go beyond the bounds to understand other animals and it is this that why it got him the patron of such, but sadly this undermines him for what he truly was.

Good point about how communicating with animals was not understood in those days. I know that Catholics understand Francis much more and I agree with you that it's a shame he is known only for loving animals.

When one hunts down an animal, one has to know the nature of that animal, some years ago one could see with the Australian Aboriginals that they once taught the little ones how too in there dancing, but to 99% of white people they can not understand or have half a clue what the abos were truly doing, not to mention it's the same with what is now known as or claimed or making a claim as Abos nowadays because they are just like the white people are just to stupid to understand because they know nothing, as they do not live in that type of world to be able to fend for themselves and them true old generation Abos know full well not to even bother with 99% of white people, and they just have to dismiss them because there is no point talking such to them because of there ignorance and they did not show all of such to whites because of the whites total ignorance.

I'd have to agree! We know a lot of technical things, but they're wise in ways we know nothing about.
But, I don't know, maybe we need both?

Pope Benedict is one of the greatest Catholics ever but the people have changed because the rot had set in within the RCC and all the others, Pope Ben was powerless to stop this as he has said and so did Pope JP2, the people and the priesthood did not listen to them, because many of the priest and people were shallow Christians, they love the worldly works more than Jesus Christ, only whips became Priest and would not stand up for Jesus Christ.
There was a undermining with in the church due to the Jesuits mainly who are just like the Freemasons and Jews who look to their own gods, so with all there influence on all denominations the rot set in, so now we have crap like people in the church claiming that the Jews are our salvation and the morons are swallowing it all and the fact is it is totally Satanic.

I keep hearing about the Jesuits but I'm very ignorant and have no knowledge about this.

I also don't know about the Jews being our salvation. Who says this??
I do know that the book of Romans states that the Jews will once again become the people of God at some point - maybe in the end of times. (chapters 9 to 11).

 

[bbyrd009]

Basically your telling me not to use my brain, to turn off my rational thinking skills.

well, there's more than one way to rationalize, and we have been trained to think logically, whereas the Bible was written dialectically; plus, you even admit that they have not helped you yet, right. Keep debating beliefs with True Believers if you like, i'm not judging lol, i still do it too.

But i suggest that Scripture is even goading us into (Eastern) dialectic reasoning, as lightning flashes from east to west, as far as east is from west, possibly, plus reading dialectically does not alter any truth, right, whatever the truth is it is not going to go away or change, you are allowed to go back to reasoning logically any time you like, logic is certainly useful for some things, building towers, etc

 

[bbyrd009]

No, that person is basically saying that we must turn off our logical thinking brain when reading the Bible, as if the God of the universe can't reach us with our logic.

now you got it, exactly. Your Logic leads you to Your Conclusions which you will hold to be Absolute Truth, and will not keep seeking, asking, knocking for a better perspective after you have arrived at the one that most closely matches your desires. And pls don't misunderstand, i am not telling you that you have to do anything, ok.

I am saying that i know for a fact that Scripture was written like the Tao, dialectically, only brought to an even higher plane, and attempting to interpret logically is "hidden from the wise," God is absolutely communicating to a logical thinker imo, He is communicating that they are to be avoided like the plague, that they will rend each other to pieces, that they will usually become twice the sons of hell they are, it's all over the place.

There are even several ways this could be demonstrated, heck you don't even need me any more lol, you got all the phrases you need to go learn from google now if you want, or post #1 here will give you a direction maybe if you want Logical and Dialectical Reasoning in Scripture. Christ appeared at the rise of Logical (Greek) Reasoning, in one perspective.

 

[GodsGrace]

I have often wondered about that very thing. I do not remember who/what/where I heard/read that Justice and fairness with God are to be separated or something? For instance take the vineyard workers...the vineyard owner paid what he promised, and the workers got what they agreed to = justice. But, fairness? Not to the workers who were out there all day sweating! lol.

Just saw this.

It also teaches that we each have our own relationship with God.
Some live with God for 40 years, some come to Him late in life and live with Him only 5 years, or even a few months or even a few moments.

We are not to envy that person. We are each to concentrate on our own relationship with God, and not be concerned with others.

 

[Phoneman777]

Which hell? I thought there was only one. (Actually there is none, it's just invisible volcano insurance)

"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data." Sherlock Holmes

Especially when theorizing about eternal consequences.

You're right that there is no hell (not yet). Peter is clear that "the Lord knoweth how to...reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished." That punishment is foretold in Revelation 20:7-9:

"And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, And shall go out to deceive the nations...And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city (New Jerusalem which has ascended to Mount Moriah): and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."
​

Annihilation, not eternal torment, is the Biblical fate of the wicked. Death. Eternal, everlasting death...a death from which there will be no resurrection.

check out this short video. It may surprise you: www.helltruth.com