The truth is, if Sunday or first day observance was taught in scripture, revealed a doctrine by either Jesus our the apostles, practiced by the first century church, then those who oppose Sabbath keeping would cite the very verses that reveal such, and their case would be settled. But they don't, and they can't. So they resort to philosophy, a expressed above by the concept of"Jesus being our Sabbath test", a concept nowhere to be found in scripture.
Jesus and Commands
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I don't think they resort to philosophy but are rather talking about the Spirit of the word. We know that the word is Spirit because God is Spirit, as scripture states.
For instance, the law to not murder can be kept outwardly while being broken inwardly. The law to not commit adultery can be kept outwardly while being broken inwardly. But if a man is lawabiding inwardly, not hating his brother and not hiding adultery in his heart, then his inside is clean and so the outside just is as well.
But we know that if the inside of the cup is clean, then no man should call unclean what God has called clean. AND we further know that the reverse is not always true because it is possible to be a whitewashed tomb with dead bones and uncleanness inside.
And so, as the apostle said, there is no law against the spirit. If a man does not murder in his heart, he will not break any law outwardly. He has broken no law but has fulfilled the law.. He has kept it in spirit and truth. And this is the same for all the laws of God.
I don't think they resort to philosophy but are rather talking about the Spirit of the word. We know that the word is Spirit because God is Spirit, as scripture states.
For instance, the law to not murder can be kept outwardly while being broken inwardly. The law to not commit adultery can be kept outwardly while being broken inwardly. But if a man is lawabiding inwardly, not hating his brother and not hiding adultery in his heart, then his inside is clean and so the outside just is as well.
But we know that if the inside of the cup is clean, then no man should call unclean what God has called clean. AND we further know that the reverse is not always true because it is possible to be a whitewashed tomb with dead bones and uncleanness inside.
And so, as the apostle said, there is no law against the spirit. If a man does not murder in his heart, he will not break any law outwardly. He has broken no law but has fulfilled the law.. He has kept it in spirit and truth. And this is the same for all the laws of God.
1stCenturyLady
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No, not at all. They can't claim something that was already instituted at Pentecost. That would be like me falling out of bed and claiming I discovered gravity!
1stCenturyLady
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Right, we are not saved one day a week. We've entered into God's rest which is everyday into eternity.
The reason we say the ceremonial law is abolished by Jesus is because of Hebrews 10:4-12 telling us that all sacrifices and offerings ended at the cross "He takes away the first to establish the second".
But the weekly Sabbath given in Genesis 2:1-3 was not based on animal sacrifice or offering liturgy - it is purely rest and worship. This is also true in the "ten" - see Exodus 20:8-11 no sacrifice or offering as the basis for the observance ... you only have Exodus 20:11 for the basis and it says to go back to creation week statement in Genesis 2:1-3. That's why I keep bringing up the Catechism, and the Baptist Confession of Faith, and Westminster Confession of Faith and a bunch of other references - because they all admit that unlike the ceremonial laws the TEN Commandment Sabbath is a moral law - applicable to "all mankind" -- not "just Jews".
Col 2:16 says the food, drink and "sabbaths" (of which we find a number of annual Sabbaths in Lev 23 - the annual feast days... ceremonial Sabbaths) are the topic. It does not single out the weekly Sabbath - and in any case Col 2:16 is not 'deleting food, drink," nor deleting Sabbaths" rather it is keeping in the theme of the entire chapter (Col 2) which is about "not making stuff up". (As I was trying to highlight in that post of mine). It is also not a case of Paul saying "pay no attention to what scripture says on these subjects" -- rather he is talking about what "man says" and specifically points to "the commandments of men" and the "teaching of man" -- where those men "judge you".
Heb 10:4-12 is actually about deleting or taking away something -- it is specifically removing "sacrifices and offerings"
In 1 Cor 7:19 Paul contrasts ceremonial law (circumcision) with moral law (the Commandments of God) and says "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God".
The TEN Commands are given in scripture as a "unit" of TEN. And nowhere do we see a new unit "of nine". This particular point is not even debated by the Catholic Catechism, Dies Domini, The Baptist Confession of Faith, or the Westminster Confession of Faith. It is the part of the discussion where both sides of the Sabbath debate - agree.
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1stCenturyLady
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Hebrews 4 shows that the 7th day of Creation was a foreshadow of entering into God's rest. SDA says this is speaking of keeping the Sabbath, but it is not. It is entering into salvation - eternal life, which is only by believing on the name of His Son Jesus Christ. Jesus is the focal point of the Sabbath, but we keep His day now, which is the 8th day (Sunday) that represents eternal life, not the foreshadow.
1stCenturyLady
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The Catholic Catechism, the Westminster Confession of Faith, the Baptist Confession of Faith and a great many others freely admit that ALL TEN of the TEN Commandments are included in the moral law of God "written on the heart" under the NEW Covenant.
The overly simplistic "here let me make something up about what Seventh-day Adventist believe" -- solves nothing.
Hebrews 4 says "there REMAINS a Sabbath rest for the people of God" -- REMAINS from WHEN??
The text points us to Psalms 95:7 - and the days of David. It REMAINS as it was in the days of David.Those who "imagine" that the saints at the time of Psalms 95 were in rebellion against the 4th commandment - need to read more Bible.
The point remains.
Yes animal sacrifices ended for bringing a temporary atonement/ covering. But all of the law and prophets were speaking of Jesus, including the 10. Instead of an uneasy and temporary peace/rest, we have a sacrifice that is better. So the Sabbath rest was speaking of Jesus. It was proclaiming the true rest in spirit that He gives.
It's fine if you consider one day more holy or if you consider every day holy. But you do not understand what the law was speaking of and foretelling.
It's fine if you consider one day more holy or if you consider every day holy. But you do not understand what the law was speaking of and foretelling.
1stCenturyLady
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Using Catholicism, and the false doctrines of the Reformationists to prove me wrong, after all the times I've said I'm not one of them nor hold them in regard, is a waste of time. That would be like holding up Hitler as a role model for separation of Christianity from the world. But you keep doing it. Must be in your cut and paste arsenal you grab out of without thinking it through.
1stCenturyLady
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I agree with you. But in reading the missing canonical book from our present canon, The Epistle of Barnabas, my understanding widened. Entering into God's rest is entering into eternity, not just rest from dead works, which as you say, is by believing in Jesus. It is salvation.
Barnabas 15:8
Finally He saith to them; Your new moons and your Sabbaths I cannot
away with. Ye see what is His meaning ; it is not your present
Sabbaths that are acceptable [unto Me], but the Sabbath which I have
made, in the which, when I have set all things at rest, I will make
the beginning of the eighth day which is the beginning of another
world.
Barnabas 15:9
Wherefore also we keep the eighth day for rejoicing, in the which
also Jesus rose from the dead, and having been manifested ascended
into the heavens.
The Epistle of Barnabas (translation J.B. Lightfoot)
bbyrd009
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ah, then pls take the below as rhetorical ok, not for youok, then i gotta ask why institute this law--to be observed throughout the known world--if everyone was so gung ho on it, do you think? Um, and seems to me some mention of the commandment being revoked would be in evidence, if what you believe happened at Pentecost actually happened?
1stCenturyLady
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bbyrd009
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ha, you're kidding i hope?
Ok then, why bother learning about some Empire-wide law that caused prolly a million+ to perish when you have Barnabas to re-write Scripture for you so that it fits with your belief system, i guess?
ok, then i gotta ask why institute this law--to be observed throughout the known world--if everyone was so gung ho on it, do you think? Um, and seems to me some mention of the commandment being revoked would be in evidence, if what you believe happened at Pentecost actually happened?
To give people a break...Imagine slaves being worked to death...or animals. And imagine only thinking of making money everyday. Life is more that bread. And we must live by the things of God. So time should be taken...and God should be taken seriously.
ok, then i gotta ask why institute this law--to be observed throughout the known world--if everyone was so gung ho on it, do you think? Um, and seems to me some mention of the commandment being revoked would be in evidence, if what you believe happened at Pentecost actually happened?
No commandment has been revoked. He didn't come to do away with the law and the prophets but to fulfill them in us. We may not understand the spirit of say...why they weren't to mix will with linen, but our lack of understanding on it doesn't mean He doesn't fulfill it in us.
remember when the apostle spoke of not refusing food to the O xen doing the treading? He said, you don't suppose God was talking about oxen do you? All of the laws are like that. And when davi d was almost swooning and begging for God to teach him His wonderful laws you don't suppose he was meaning the dead letter that kills, do you?
bbyrd009
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Hmm...The oppressed are outwardly humble so they will not be killed or imprisoned. But they will spit in the dictators food behind his back...
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