propitiation by His blood, through faith

[Dave L]

So then, you believe a just and merciful God would send a fetus in the womb, (not yet born of water) and those who are mentally incapable of making even the most basic of decisions will be held accountable even though they had NO free will choice in the matter. So, you do NOT believe in free will huh. Now I understand some of your posts. God just wants robotics, He FORCES them to Love Him. How small for such a huge God.

“For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.” (Romans 5:19)

“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them [infants, impaired, etc.,] that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.” (Romans 5:14)

 

[Dave L]

***

God gave us free will. We are not robots.

“Jesus answered them, “I tell you the solemn truth, everyone who practices sin is a slave of sin.” (John 8:34)

“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:” (Romans 3:10)

 

[Dave L]

Actually, "faithfulness" is a fruit of the Spirit...not faith. They are very different. God has given each a measure of faith to build upon. We are to exercise that faith in trusting Him and acknowledging Him in ALL our ways. And, ANYTHING one does without the Holy Spirit is of the flesh so...it sounds like you have it backward.

"Without the Holy Spirit, any attempts at obedience are simply acting like a Christian = hypocrisy."

And, without the Holy Spirit, the same applies to doing "Christian" things. "...And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ."

“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” (Hebrews 11:1) How can faith be of human origin?

 

[Harvest 1874]

I knew you wouldn't answer. The Adamic nature is to hide their sin. Add religion to that and you get a monster.

God is a God of the living. Those babies aren't dead. They're with Him.

Although I agree with you that our friend here preaches “another gospel”, you appear to be falling into the same trap.

Your reply here, viz. “Those babies aren't dead. They're with Him” is precisely why there are so many skeptics and non-believers in Word of God. Like many preachers who preach about the resurrection on Sunday and then on Wednesday while giving a eulogy for one of the dearly departed they claim the individual is in a better place now, that they’ve gone to heaven to be with Jesus. What happen to waiting for the resurrection which you preached about on Sunday?

Unless the individual was fully consecrated and had made their calling and election sure (which we can be ascertain that no baby has done) they certainly would not be in heaven with the Lord. So where are they? They are exactly where the scriptures say they are, they are in Sheol, the grave or pit, awaiting the resurrection morning like the rest of mankind.

Believers, that is true Believers need to stop attempting to please the world with half-truths and deceptions which only bring more distrust in the word of God.

 

[Harvest 1874]

John 9:41"to those who were offended at his teaching and asked if he thought they were blind-he said, "If you were blind, you would not have had sin; but since you say, 'We see,' your sin remains."
An infant, not to mention the mentally, does not have the natural capacity to see Gods will or even what sin is to God. So, I say babies, and certain others, by the awesome grace and mercy of God Almighty, are saved.

"You say"? So are you now more just than God?

 

[Nancy]

"You say"? So are you now more just than God?

Almost sounds as though you WANT these people in hell?? And, your sentence makes no sense.

 

[Nancy]

“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” (Hebrews 11:1) How can faith be of human origin?

We are talking about the 9 fruits of the Spirit, not to be confused with the "gifts" These are the 9:
the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control."

 

[Dave L]

We are talking about the 9 fruits of the Spirit, not to be confused with the "gifts" These are the 9:
the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control."

Before the new birth, we have only the sinful flesh to work with.

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19–21)

Please identify the attribute most likely to produce faith.

 

[H. Richard]

Nancy, I believe we touched base on this a few months ago. The topic of "free will" is misunderstood. Mankind is clearly enslaved to sin and that is our very nature. Man has a will, but it is enslaved, which means it is not free. We can make choices; no one is a robot but, in our free agency we would never seek/desire God if it was not for the Holy Spirit first convicting us. If the Holy Spirit did not convict the human heart there would be no Believers in the world.

When it comes to infants / the mentally incapable I believe it is good to look at Jeremiah 19:4. The people were offering their children to idols and God said, "...they have filled this place with the blood of the innocent". I do believe 100% that we are born with a sin nature, all of us are fallen through Adam. The sin nature is there but the fruit of sin is not, infants have not committed any sin even though the nature is in them, they don't have the means to produce that fruit of evil yet. So no, I do not believe God would damn them but I do believe everyone born does have a corrupted, evil nature through the Fall - there are no innocent people. Anyone that goes to Heaven is simply there by the saving grace of God (not their own works/merit)

***

We can bat this "freewill" thing around if that will accomplish anything. But the scriptures tell us it is a choice to follow God or Satan. If a choice then we have freewill. Abraham choose to follow God's will for him.

When God poured out His wrath on Sodom He killed everyone there including babies. It is wrong to judge God for doing so. Human babies are the children of the flesh. If a person thinks that a baby has no sinful nature put two or three in a room with only one toy and you will see the selfish nature at work.

 

[LC627]

Before the new birth, we have only the sinful flesh to work with.

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19–21)

Please identify the attribute most likely to produce faith.

Romans 8:7 - the mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God's law, nor can it do so.

A hostile mind won't ever be humble on its own

 

[LC627]

***

We can bat this "freewill" thing around if that will accomplish anything. But the scriptures tell us it is a choice to follow God or Satan. If a choice then we have freewill. Abraham choose to follow God's will for him.

When God poured out His wrath on Sodom He killed everyone there including babies. It is wrong to judge God for doing so. Human babies are the children of the flesh. If a person thinks that a baby has no sinful nature put two or three in a room with only one toy and you will see the selfish nature at work.

I agree with the second part of your post. We don't have to teach babies to sin, it's already there and God did unleash His righteousness judgement on Sodom and no doubt there were children there.

 

[H. Richard]

Before the new birth, we have only the sinful flesh to work with.

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” (Galatians 5:19–21)

Please identify the attribute most likely to produce faith.

***

It is only when when a person realizes that they HAVE those same things in their life that they will know they are lost and reach out to God. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to try and make sinful mankind to see into their OWN heart. But there are those that will not do that. They only want to look at the sins of others and claim they don't sin as others do.

Paul was right in that those that do those things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But that does not mean the child of God will not inherit the kingdom. Even though the child of God does some of these in the flesh, he/she is not condemned by them because they are no longer in the flesh since they walk in the Spirit (walk in faith). Jesus paid for those sins and they no longer exist for the children of God. Jesus' shed blood has already paid for them. But those who walk in their self-righteousness are not in the spirit.

In Romans 7, Paul writes "
Rom 7:23-8:2
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Free from Indwelling Sin

Rom 8:1:2
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
NKJV This is what I have said and it is what Paul said.

 

[Dave L]

***

It is only when when a person realizes that they HAVE those same things in their life that they will know they are lost and reach out to God. It is the work of the Holy Spirit to try and make sinful mankind to see into their OWN heart. But there are those that will not do that. They only want to look at the sins of others and claim they don't sin as others do.

Paul was right in that those that do those things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But that does not mean the child of God will not inherit the kingdom. Even though the child of God does some of these in the flesh, he/she is not condemned by them because they are no longer in the flesh since they walk in the Spirit (walk in faith). Jesus paid for those sins and they no longer exist for the children of God. Jesus' shed blood has already paid for them. But those who walk in their self-righteousness are not in the spirit.

In Romans 7, Paul writes "
Rom 7:23-8:2
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God — through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Free from Indwelling Sin

Rom 8:1:2
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
NKJV This is what I have said and it is what Paul said.

“But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.” (1 Corinthians 2:14)

 

[H. Richard]

What you are presenting is a scheme of salvation based on acting like a Christian in order to become one. = salvation by hypocrisy. You must already be saved by grace before you can genuinely produce the fruits thereof.

***

What you have said above is a lie. The scheme (as you call it) is my saying that salvation is the work of Jesus on the cross where He paid for all the sins of mankind. FAITH PLUS NOTHING! That is what God has done and that is my scheme to preach to everyone,

Okay, I don't take that to heart because I know who I am and you don't. You only think you do. You will judge those on this forum based on what you believe and I bet you think everyone on here is lost but you. I thank God that I am not left in your hands to be saved.

Rom 14:1-4
14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things.
2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables.
3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
NKJV

I see no humility in what you write about the beliefs of others. What I do see is that you are just out to exalt yourself above others. You are a religious person and it has always been the religious who give the children of God a hard time. LOL

 

[Dave L]

***

What you have said above is a lie. The scheme (as you call it) is my saying that salvation is the work of Jesus on the cross where He paid for all the sins of mankind. FAITH PLUS NOTHING! That is what God has done and that is my scheme to preach to everyone,

Okay, I don't take that to heart because I know who I am and you don't. You only think you do. You will judge those on this forum based on what you believe and I bet you think everyone on here is lost but you. I thank God that I am not left in your hands to be saved.

Rom 14:1-4
14 Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things.
2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables.
3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him.
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
NKJV

I see no humility in what you write about the beliefs of others. What I do see is that you are just out to exalt yourself above others. You are a religious person and it has always been the religious who give the children of God a hard time. LOL

If obedience in any way triggers Christ's atonement in your behalf, all of what I said is true.

 

[LC627]

If obedience in any way triggers Christ's atonement in your behalf, all of what I said is true.

He's telling you not to judge but yet he is judging you. Lol.

 

[bbyrd009]

gotta wonder how he is still even posting after the obedience thing, i mean that takes some concentrated deafness imo

 

[Nancy]

“Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” (Hebrews 11:1) How can faith be of human origin?

"...God has allotted to each a measure of faith." Romans 12:3

 

[Dave L]

"...God has allotted to each a measure of faith." Romans 12:3

“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.” (Romans 12:1–3)

I.e., Paul is speaking to believers.

 

[Enoch111]

"...God has allotted to each a measure of faith." Romans 12:3

True. Scripture reveals that there are several kinds of faith:
1. Mental asset (in those who do not obey the Gospel)
2. Saving faith (in those who obey the Gospel)
3. The measure of faith (to all believers)
4. The spiritual gift of faith (to some believers)

If saving faith were a gift of God, then it would be given to ALL HUMANITY, because God wants all men to be saved. The gift is salvation (eternal life) to those who believe. And after that there is a spiritual gift of faith to some (since all spiritual gifts are not given uniformly to all).