"Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Faith" - Has 500 Years Taught Us Nothing?

[GodsGrace]

I have no idea what you mean. The Reformation was about identifying the papacy as the Antichrist of prophecy and exposing all of Rome's false teachings, as well as pointing people away from the adoration of a man calling himself "papa" toward our Heavenly Father, His Son, and the Holy Spirit. I can't think of a more nobler cause than that.

The trouble today is Protestantism has forgotten its roots, and therefore is vulnerable to the deceptions that have all but swept Protestantism away.

P,

People called the bishops of the five important geographical areas of Christianity Papa from the beginning. Alexandria, Constantinople, Rome, Jerusalem, Antioch.
It was to distinguish them from all the other bishops, of which each area had one as the head of the priests of that area.

I've also never heard it taught that Protestantism was to unveil the Pope as the anti-Christ...could you post something about this from a reliable source? I don't know much about the reformation. I thought it was about teaching people how they are really saved, not to depend on a church but on God, the incorrect practices of catholicism.

 

[GodsGrace]

And his arguments are just plain STUPID. For instance, Dead Bread justifies the Eucharist because "Christ sacrifice is eternal".

Yes, it is eternal...in its result, NOT ITS PROCESS. I'm truly astonished at how ignorant Dead Bread is.

This is an interesting concept that I've never thought of...

What does eternal mean?

This is an explanation of how God is eternal:

“The attribute of eternity means that God exists endlessly. His existence extends endlessly backward and forward (from our viewpoint of time) without any interruption or limitation caused by succession of events.” – Charles Ryrie1

source: God is Eternal



This is a definition of the word:

eternal
[ih-tur-nl]
See more synonyms for eternal on Thesaurus.com
adjective

1. without beginning or end; lasting forever; alwaysexisting (opposed to temporal):eternal life.
2. perpetual; ceaseless; endless:eternal quarreling; eternal chatter.
3. enduring; immutable:eternal principles.

We many times say that from the beginning, God had planned a Savior since He knew we would need one.

Right now I'm thinking Jesus' sacrifice IS eternal.

Was it?? This would make an interesting thread.

 

[GodsGrace]

i struggled with that for a while, but that demons have "faith" is not contradictory to me at all now.
the only judgement i am able to find is for works, and what demons do not do is obey God, right

the discussion becomes moot when spirits are personified anyway imo, but this becomes difficult to demonstrate with Scripture personifying spirits all over the place and everyone perceiving It as Word--meaning "not subject to interpretation." Thankfully this is changing now i guess

ps, oracles can't hear, but at least you mark him for others right

Very interesting point about demons not doing works!
(in relationship to their having faith)

And, it seems to me that all of scripture is subject to interpretation, although it's obvious that some of it is twisted out of recognition so someone could prove THEIR point of view. Of course, I'd be accused of doing the same thing.

A definition of FAITH.

faith
/feɪθ/
noun

1. 1.
   complete trust or confidence in someone or something.
   "this restores one's faith in politicians"
   sinonimi: trust, belief, confidence, conviction, credence, reliance, dependence; Altro
   
2. 2.
   strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.
   "bereaved people who have shown supreme faith"
   sinonimi: religion, church, sect, denomination, persuasion, religious persuasion, religious belief, belief, code of belief, ideology, creed, teaching, dogma, doctrine
   "she gave her life for her faith"

********************************************************

Faith is choosing to believe
First of all, the Christian faith professes an unreserved belief in the Bible, God’s Word to mankind – true, tested and unchanging. Faith is also full and unreserved confidence in God, in His love for me, and in His power to help me whatever comes my way in life. “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.” Hebrews 11:6.

********************************************************


Faith [N] [T] [E]

Belief, trust, and loyalty to a person or thing. Christians find their security and hope in God as revealed in Jesus Christ, and say "amen" to that unique relationship to God in the Holy Spirit through love and obedience as expressed in lives of discipleship and service.

SOURCE: Faith Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary


I've listed the source for the last one because it really should be read.
It lists the 6 definitions of faith in the bible,,, just off hand I remember the O.T.

Based on the above...can we say the demons have faith???
I don't think so.

 

[GodsGrace]

Sweden seems to have got a handle on it i guess? And everyone forgets that our corporations' charters used to be required to come up for review as to whether or not they served the will of the people, which is what was intended; pure "socialism" iow, only not Godless

personally i am For anything that sounds bad to four or more ppl now lol
"poverty" does not = lack of money imo

I hear about Sweden...I don't know enough about Sweden...I can only speak to what I know and what I've experienced. I don't even care for poles or surveys...they tend to be political and superficial. I hear Norway is supposed to be great too. They've achieved some sort of balance between socialism and people's rights. Don't know enough about that either...Most countries that practice some sort of socialism tend to be poor.

As to money not equaling poverty...
Some have money and are very poor...I won't get into that because I think we all know this.

But money is good to have and those that don't suffer for it.
I heard on the news yesterday that some here cannot afford to be medically treated because they don't have money for it.

A food store manager told me that at the end of the month, sales drop off --- this means people's money runs out FOR FOOD.

Yeah. I think not having money IS poverty.
Usually it's people WITH money that tell us it's not important.

 

[bbyrd009]

Most countries that practice some sort of socialism tend to be poor.

well, Sweden's debt is down to 40% of GDP, from a high of 70% in the 90s
seems like they're going the right direction
the country sure doesn't look or feel poor to me
from my perspective iow, haven't been there

Yeah. I think not having money IS poverty.

imo that took a lot of indoctrination, from birth even, and it still did not make any sense to you at one time
you once thought adults were insane too, right, you have prolly just forgotten that now?

 

[GodsGrace]

well, Sweden's debt is down to 40% of GDP, from a high of 70% in the 90s
seems like they're going the right direction
the country sure doesn't look or feel poor to me
from my perspective iow, haven't been there

imo that took a lot of indoctrination, from birth even, and it still did not make any sense to you at one time
you once thought adults were insane too, right, you have prolly just forgotten that now?

Can't comment to the first paragraph.

To the second...no..it's not indoctrination...Those without sufficient money suffer more than those who have it.

IOW, would you rather have an illness WITH money or WITHOUT money?

As far as adults being insane... Someone once told me we're all insane in one way or another. I think he was right!

 

[bbyrd009]

Those without sufficient money suffer more than those who have it.

so you say, but imo i could present a pretty compelling argument that the reverse is actually true, despite appearances, for instance what country is the "richest" monetarily, iyo?

IOW, would you rather have an illness WITH money or WITHOUT money?

i'd rather not have an illness, and i do get you, but unfortunately curing an illness with money is the best way to deny God imo. But if you can postulate an exception, i'm open.

 

[brakelite]

Good catholics know very little about the bible and are just starting to learn (compared to Protestants).

And, they're rather nice persons.

I don't think BoL properly represents catholicism and I've been telling him this since I got here. Well, actually, I've given up. I can understand his frustration because catholicism is so badly represented here, but that does not give anyone the excuse to be so uncivil. I'm more than secure in the fact that if his priest or bishop knew how he acts, they would be very upset indeed.

Jesus taught His disciples to love each other. I believe we here are all disciple of Jesus and even though we may disagree, we still should treat each other lovingly.

BTW, I'm a former cathoic.

A good Catholic is one who does everything the good Catholic way...mass...rosary...holy water at the front door...no meat on Friday...no lollies during lent....midnight mass at Christmas...maybe volunteer at the church op shop. BoL may do all of those things, perhaps more...a good Catholic. But his obnoxious and abrasive attitude reveals an unconverted one. I also grew up Catholic. All the people I knew then were lovely people. And I knew very few Protestants...apart from my father's family. They also were very nice. I have never met anyone, anywhere, not even in the world, who shows such determination to denigrate and malign the characters of all with whom he communicates as does BoL. And in online discussions where often the young in Christ may be here, or the curious, BoLs constant attitude of belligerence is a pitiful and tactless demonstration of the character of the one he is supposed to be here representing.

 

[Dave L]

You have been provided with several Scriptures to refute this nonsense.

So it is now time for you to start BELIEVING what is written, instead of following some fanciful interpretations. You are accusing others of adding to Scripture, while you have made it a habit to nullify Scripture.

OT scriptures = symbols of NT spiritual realities. Jesus said his kingdom is spiritual, then present as he preached it, and only the born again can see it.

 

[Dave L]

Dave, just answer the question please. You accuse people of adding to the Book of Revelations yet can't answer a simple question about one single verse. What's wrong with you? You make very serious allegations before the eyes of the Lord Jesus Christ, as if you are flippantly just posting things. Do you understand the ramifications of what you are doing?

Physical kingdom = add to Revelation. Spiritual kingdom as taught by Jesus = not adding to Revelation

 

[GodsGrace]

so you say, but imo i could present a pretty compelling argument that the reverse is actually true, despite appearances, for instance what country is the "richest" monetarily, iyo?
i'd rather not have an illness, and i do get you, but unfortunately curing an illness with money is the best way to deny God imo. But if you can postulate an exception, i'm open.

An exception!
My granddaughter.
She has autism. I thank God that we were able to afford private treatment for her.
Are details necessary??

The socialist system here is not good --- well, it's good for some things but not others. No use in getting into this.

Kirk Douglas had a stroke.
Who was better off? Him, or some normal guy that lives down the street?

So you believe God heals everyone?

 

[GodsGrace]

Physical kingdom = add to Revelation. Spiritual kingdom as taught by Jesus = not adding to Revelation

I'm not reading along and I don't know too much about Revelation since most of it is not literal....

But, by your post above, I can say this.

Jesus set up God's SPIRITUAL Kingdom -- in which we live, and which would change our society if more were in it.

The material Kingdom will come at the end of the world.

BOTH are right.

 

[GodsGrace]

A good Catholic is one who does everything the good Catholic way...mass...rosary...holy water at the front door...no meat on Friday...no lollies during lent....midnight mass at Christmas...maybe volunteer at the church op shop. BoL may do all of those things, perhaps more...a good Catholic. But his obnoxious and abrasive attitude reveals an unconverted one. I also grew up Catholic. All the people I knew then were lovely people. And I knew very few Protestants...apart from my father's family. They also were very nice. I have never met anyone, anywhere, not even in the world, who shows such determination to denigrate and malign the characters of all with whom he communicates as does BoL. And in online discussions where often the young in Christ may be here, or the curious, BoLs constant attitude of belligerence is a pitiful and tactless demonstration of the character of the one he is supposed to be here representing.

I agree. It also turns people off to Catholicism --- even those that might be interested in it or interested in becoming Catholic.

 

[Dave L]

I'm not reading along and I don't know too much about Revelation since most of it is not literal....

But, by your post above, I can say this.

Jesus set up God's SPIRITUAL Kingdom -- in which we live, and which would change our society if more were in it.

The material Kingdom will come at the end of the world.

BOTH are right.

Here's the timeline I believe holds true. We are in the spiritual kingdom now as you say. On earth's last day Jesus returns followed by the resurrection and rapture of believers into heaven. Then comes the resurrection and judgement of the damned with the conflagration of the universe. Followed by the creation of the New Heavens and Earth where heaven and earth become one. This is also the restoration of Israel (believers in Christ) physically depicted by the prophets, where we live forever in Christ's completed kingdom.

 

[GodsGrace]

Here's the timeline I believe holds true. We are in the spiritual kingdom now as you say. On earth's last day Jesus returns followed by the resurrection and rapture of believers into heaven. Then comes the resurrection and judgement of the damned with the conflagration of the universe. Followed by the creation of the New Heavens and Earth where heaven and earth become one. This is also the restoration of Israel (believers in Christ) physically depicted by the prophets, where we live forever in Christ's completed kingdom.

I agree. I do know this..Jesus comes back ONE TIME, not two.
He comes back at the end of the age.

Wait. With conflagration...do you mean the apocolypse?? With people still living on earth?

 

[Dave L]

I agree. I do know this..Jesus comes back ONE TIME, not two.
He comes back at the end of the age.

Wait. With conflagration...do you mean the apocolypse?? With people still living on earth?

Peter says the universe will explode (Big Bang?) and the New Heavens and Earth will replace it.

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.” (2 Peter 3:10–13) (KJV 1900)

As I understand, we will be in heaven with only the wicked left behind when this happens.

 

[bbyrd009]

She has autism. I thank God that we were able to afford private treatment for her.
Are details necessary??

i dunno, is she no longer autistic?
i'm mildly autistic i guess, Asperger's, so i'm curious what treatment she was given?

plus now imo we have changed the subject, to congenital defects

Kirk Douglas had a stroke.
Who was better off? Him, or some normal guy that lives down the street?

um well, if the normal guy did not have a stroke i would have to say him!
and if the normal guy did have a stroke i would say neither one!

bc you will never find someone eating omega3 in the right ratio having strokes imo

 

[bbyrd009]

So you believe God heals everyone?

ha, no, imo it is more likely that God is "making" them sick i guess, "I the Lord do all these things."
iow you reap what you sow, basically

 

[GodsGrace]

Peter says the universe will explode (Big Bang?) and the New Heavens and Earth will replace it.

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.” (2 Peter 3:10–13) (KJV 1900)

As I understand, we will be in heaven with only the wicked left behind when this happens.

If everything melts because of the great heat,,,so will humans.

I just believe Jesus is coming back one time.
All those that are still living will be taken up to heaven...and those that are going to the other place will go there. Those in the graves will be joined with their bodies
and then the new heaven and earth will appear.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
18Therefore comfort one another with these words.

 

[Dave L]

If everything melts because of the great heat,,,so will humans.

I just believe Jesus is coming back one time.
All those that are still living will be taken up to heaven...and those that are going to the other place will go there. Those in the graves will be joined with their bodies
and then the new heaven and earth will appear.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.
16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord.
18Therefore comfort one another with these words.

The wicked all go to hell. I think they probably experience the end of the universe on the way to hell.