"Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Faith" - Has 500 Years Taught Us Nothing?

[GodsGrace]

WRONG.
Demons have BELIEF - not Faith.
Faith is more than just belief.

I believe there's only one place in the N.T. that believe is used to mean believe the way we use it today....mental assent.

In N.T. times and in Greek, believe, at that time, means to entrust, have faith in...etc.
This can be confirmed by checking out the Greek,,,
We always forget that the language that was used cannot be translated word for word or even 100% correctly, and that the culture was different and they spoke and meant differently than today.

We forget this at times. (not you).

 

[bbyrd009]

Catholics have great faith... in their works.

ha i note pretty much the same bell-curve with them as with any other we?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Unless you can support a physical kingdom from the NT, which Jesus never mentions, you are adding to the book of Revelation claiming such.

Dave, just answer the question please. You accuse people of adding to the Book of Revelations yet can't answer a simple question about one single verse. What's wrong with you? You make very serious allegations before the eyes of the Lord Jesus Christ, as if you are flippantly just posting things. Do you understand the ramifications of what you are doing?

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

They are so *spiritual* they believe everything is simply metaphorical and *spiritual*.

Sorry, but you are mistaken. The eternal home of the New Testament saints in the New Jerusalem (John 14:1-3 and many other passages). The New Earth is for redeemed and restored Israel and the saved nations which will surround it.

At the same time, Christians will be involved with the administration of affairs on earth, since they will live and reign with Christ.

I would say that it works this way, If you have Jesus Christ Holy Spirit then you are Born Again and are in the Kingdom of God and this world has to come to that point and then we will all have the Kingdom of God. that's all it takes ! abide in Jesus or you are out, because if you do not abide one does not belong.
If one believes that there is no hope until the 2ed coming, then you must of missed the boat and never knew Jesus, such must have another Jesus. I believe in the Jesus Christ, not some new comer that will pop up, especially some Talmud Jew creation and that's what is truly coming he will be the Devil and the Talmud Jews and all Satanist will rule the Earth, not to mention kill most people, but they will fail in the end and truly be seen for who they truly are. man is blind to this evil because he is coned and brainwashed by great deceptions. the old saying of beware of the Jew who comes bearing gifts is true, they use deceptions to fool you into believing they are doing good works and you a favour but inwardly they are just raving wolfs.
No Jew has the Holy Spirit and if they did have, then they would become a Christian, so why look up to them. how fooled can one get swallowing such rubbish.

You know that the liberals are only fatting up the dupes for the slaughter, they are cunningly giving dupes power, they are all bludgers and no hopers enforcing filth over all with there abortion madness and hug the flee type short sighted narrow minded dribble, there is only one way a Nation goes with that attitude and that's down. they are trying to make the USA a 3rd world with no borders with out of control, crime, rape out of control and totally embracing Sodomy over all as a human right.
Sure they support all this madness because they want to force the 2ed coming, but the fact is that the 2ed coming is a Spiritual awakening first and foremost, so what do the lost want to do, create the horror on earth following Satan's works in order to bring in the 2ed coming or work be abiding with the truly Born Again who are with the Holy Spirit who will go to Heaven or follow Satan's path that will lead to the 2ed coming, but all who go down that path will go to Hell. no one goes to Heaven trying to create hell on Earth in order to bring about the 2ed coming. such people would look up to rubbish like Hitler and all the Communist bastards did and the fact is that non of them were Christians, but controlled by Jews, 80% of Russia's Communist Leaders were Jews and most of the Nazis Leaders were all Jews who were in bed with the Talmud Zionist who were killing the Jews who did not support the Talmud Zionist.

Can't people put it together and work out that 2 wrongs don't make a right, you can not do wrong in order to make things right, that's a working in Sin and if one supports such then such a one is going to Hell, because you are opposing Jesus Christ and he is the only one you have to follow and reject all the temptations that Satan peddles, idolising other people or some fatuitous so called race.

I know that Satan's power will over power Christianity for a time, but I am not going to go with the flow, I will stick with Jesus and reject all who want to abide in a sewer.

There is no Jewish race, that rubbish is peddled by Zionist Talmud morons who in fact are the biggest moronic racist bigoted bastards you could ever come across in your life, no one comes close to them in that field and yet we see liberals idolise such clowns, how Satanic can you get, what totally brainwashed dupes, it's like all is fine that the Jews are allowed to do everything that the liberals are complaining about but if anyone other does in any way at all, such it's forbidden. that's the definition of Brainwashed. doing things that just do not add up in all foolishness and believing in total nonsense.

 

[BreadOfLife]

James 2:19 Lexicon: You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.
Strong's Greek: 4100. πιστεύω (pisteuó) -- to believe, entrust

belief” and “faith” share the same root in the Greek.
Some terms in Greek have several meanings. This is true for ALL languages.

In English, words like butt, live, fall, cast, etc., have several meanings.
When you red James 2 in CONTEXT, ANY person with a second-grade education can see that he is differentiating the simple “belief” of the demons with the true “Faith” of a Christian.

 

[Enoch111]

Unless you can support a physical kingdom from the NT, which Jesus never mentions, you are adding to the book of Revelation claiming such.

You have been provided with several Scriptures to refute this nonsense.

So it is now time for you to start BELIEVING what is written, instead of following some fanciful interpretations. You are accusing others of adding to Scripture, while you have made it a habit to nullify Scripture.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I believe there's only one place in the N.T. that believe is used to mean believe the way we use it today....mental assent.

In N.T. times and in Greek, believe, at that time, means to entrust, have faith in...etc.
This can be confirmed by checking out the Greek,,,
We always forget that the language that was used cannot be translated word for word or even 100% correctly, and that the culture was different and they spoke and meant differently than today.

We forget this at times. (not you).

Yes and no

First of all – just because“faith” and “belief” share the same root doesn’t mean that they have the exact same meaning. Some terms in Greek have several meanings. This is true for ALL languages.

In English, words like butt, live, fall, cast, etc., have several meanings.

The generic “belief” of intellectual assent and the true faith that a Christian has are as different as night and day – and THAT’S James’s whole point. When you reed James 2 in CONTEXT, you see that James is differentiating the simple “belief” of the demons with the true “Faith” of a Christian.

Christian faith requires an EPIGNOSIS of Christ – not just a gnosis or oida (knowledge). Epignosis is a FULL, experiential and relational knowledge – NOT simply a knowing about Him as the demons do.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes and no

First of all – just because“faith” and “belief” share the same root doesn’t mean that they have the exact same meaning. Some terms in Greek have several meanings. This is true for ALL languages.

In English, words like butt, live, fall, cast, etc., have several meanings.

The generic “belief” of intellectual assent and the true faith that a Christian has are as different as night and day – and THAT’S James’s whole point. When you reed James 2 in CONTEXT, you see that James is differentiating the simple “belief” of the demons with the true “Faith” of a Christian.

Christian faith requires an EPIGNOSIS of Christ – not just a gnosis or oida (knowledge). Epignosis is a FULL, experiential and relational knowledge – NOT simply a knowing about Him as the demons do.

You're repeating what I posted!

 

[brakelite]

I beg to differ.
Your posts are proof positive that Satan is alive and well here . . .
.

Your lies and divisive remarks are indicative of Satan's presence in your life - and on this forum.

Real Christians don't feel the need to lie like you do.

You need to calm right down and shut up. You are the most offensive unlikable unsociable person I have met. You meet all the criteria of a good Catholic, but fail all the criteria of being a reasonable human being.

 

[brakelite]

Ok, I suppose my next question then would be what you do with passages like Zechariah 14:6 and Isaiah 66:20?

So when does the following take place....,
KJV Revelation 6
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Or this....
KJV 2 Peter 3
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

We need to agree that there are yet two comings or advents of Christ. The first to take His bride to be presented to His Father. The second to take his bride to the promised home of a new earth, where the Father shall reign forever.
The details, such as those texts from Zechariah and Isaiah and Peter, need to placed in the context of those two great events. Now like when Jesus mixed two events together in prophecy, the destruction of Jerusalem and his second coming, so also there are two events mixed in some prophecies regarding the millennium... We need to discern which ends of the millennium we are talking about. Sometimes we cannot fit every detail into its correct context, because we haven't been there yet. Most of prophecy is given to us that we may be clairvoyants regarding the future. Jesus said himself regarding some prophecy that "when these things come to pass, you will know". Much of prophecy is confirmed by past history... We cannot 'prove' our eschatological beliefs by projecting what prophecy may or not mean for the future. Doesn't mean we may not have a very good idea regarding what is to come re the big picture, like the nature of the millennium, but the details....
For example. The early church agreed, and even prayed that pagan Rome would continue in power despite the persecutions that came from her. They were heeding Paul's warning that after he was gone, the power that held back the Antichrist, the son of perdition, would be raised to power. They saw the big picture. They recognised over the ensuing centuries the collapse of Rome and the encroaching barbarian hordes that took over. They knew Antichrist was next, but did not know more did they recognise it when he came. That was left up to later reformers who when studying the prophecies and comparing them with past history, all recognised the papacy as the Antichrist. So with some deals about the future .
Some things we don't see clearly. But we see the big picture... Unless of course our entire prophetic hermeneutic had been changed from historicism to futurism...

 

[Phoneman777]

Indeed.

It has taught us nothing.

We are still obessed over style over substance.

The Reformation claimed to target a change of heart, but focused on doing so by changing the externals.

I have no idea what you mean. The Reformation was about identifying the papacy as the Antichrist of prophecy and exposing all of Rome's false teachings, as well as pointing people away from the adoration of a man calling himself "papa" toward our Heavenly Father, His Son, and the Holy Spirit. I can't think of a more nobler cause than that.

The trouble today is Protestantism has forgotten its roots, and therefore is vulnerable to the deceptions that have all but swept Protestantism away.

 

[Phoneman777]

You need to calm right down and shut up. You are the most offensive unlikable unsociable person I have met. You meet all the criteria of a good Catholic, but fail all the criteria of being a reasonable human being.

And his arguments are just plain STUPID. For instance, Dead Bread justifies the Eucharist because "Christ sacrifice is eternal".

Yes, it is eternal...in its result, NOT ITS PROCESS. I'm truly astonished at how ignorant Dead Bread is.

 

[Helen]

You're repeating what I posted!

Haha! It must be right then...give him me a “like”.

 

[bbyrd009]

You're repeating what I posted!

i struggled with that for a while, but that demons have "faith" is not contradictory to me at all now.
the only judgement i am able to find is for works, and what demons do not do is obey God, right

the discussion becomes moot when spirits are personified anyway imo, but this becomes difficult to demonstrate with Scripture personifying spirits all over the place and everyone perceiving It as Word--meaning "not subject to interpretation." Thankfully this is changing now i guess

ps, oracles can't hear, but at least you mark him for others right

 

[bbyrd009]

Indeed.

It has taught us nothing.

We are still obessed over style over substance.

The Reformation claimed to target a change of heart, but focused on doing so by changing the externals.

the Protestant Beast is worse than the Catholic one imo in the same way a potus is worse than a king
which is not intuitive at all to me, at least at first, until one realizes that the will of the ppl can be manipulated with something sparkly.
We like to think our best qualities would come out, but the worst ones do instead i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

Agreed. Socialism is supposed to make everyone be the same...yes, the same as in poverty stricken! It brings everyone down...not up; which is what's promised in that ism.

Sweden seems to have got a handle on it i guess? And everyone forgets that our corporations' charters used to be required to come up for review as to whether or not they served the will of the people, which is what was intended; pure "socialism" iow, only not Godless

personally i am For anything that sounds bad to four or more ppl now lol
"poverty" does not = lack of money imo

 

[bbyrd009]

differentiating the simple “belief” of the demons with the true “Faith” of a Christian.

imo he conflates them perfectly, as they should be conflated. The differentiation forms around works, i would say plainly but i'll say imo

and i don't mean this like you will have to read it ok, but then we have an excuse for ppl who present like you do here, see. Yes this guy professes faith in God, and no we do not consider his behavior acceptable. Understand that this is just a characterization based upon your behavior here, not the greatest guide prolly. And pls don't change for me, i like it like that, but the point is you are judged for your works, as they are the only gauge of your faith.

Iow there is no objective definition for "faith in God"
but there are objective definitions for our works

 

[bbyrd009]

is there an objective definition for "faith in God?"

 

[GodsGrace]

You need to calm right down and shut up. You are the most offensive unlikable unsociable person I have met. You meet all the criteria of a good Catholic, but fail all the criteria of being a reasonable human being.

Good catholics know very little about the bible and are just starting to learn (compared to Protestants).

And, they're rather nice persons.

I don't think BoL properly represents catholicism and I've been telling him this since I got here. Well, actually, I've given up. I can understand his frustration because catholicism is so badly represented here, but that does not give anyone the excuse to be so uncivil. I'm more than secure in the fact that if his priest or bishop knew how he acts, they would be very upset indeed.

Jesus taught His disciples to love each other. I believe we here are all disciple of Jesus and even though we may disagree, we still should treat each other lovingly.

BTW, I'm a former cathoic.

 

[GodsGrace]

Haha! It must be right then...give him me a “like”.

I've given BoL a few likes.
I must say that I don't care for his attitude...it's not very Christianly.