Believers stay righteous through their obedience

[mjrhealth]

this "yes or no" stuff then becomes a sign, see; yes, Jesus died "for" you, and no, Jesus did not die for you, both are true in a sense

Which part. you believe HE did or you dont believe He did, at all.....One is faith the other speaks of no faith. And if you dont believe He did, than why may I ask are you here.

 

[mjrhealth]

oh, definitely not, else you would not be called to pick up your own cross and follow, right, i mean even a determinist should be able to see this?

Oh, so let me get this straight, the cost of your sin is greater than the price Jesus paid,, Or is it that it is impossible for God to save man, so man , some men, choose to try save themselves. Wont happen ever.

sorry, but this is warped, we are plainly told to seek our own salvation, and the filthy rags are for a diff concept entirely, when you state your bold new vision for the future that you maybe want me to sign onto and pledge to implement or something like that, rather than works meet for salvation which i guess you haven't gotten to that part yet

Yes this bit.

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

there is a lot of it in Christianity,

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I guess for you it will never be a gift, you insist like many on paying the price yourself, and you simply will never be able too.

All the law ever did and will ever do, is kill people, and you will just be another one.

 

[justbyfaith]

All the law ever did and will ever do, is kill people, and you will just be another one.

He has to pick up his own cross and die on it in order to be saved...so of course that would be the case.

 

[Frank Lee]

Though not called so Jesus plus is the prevailing doctrine of denominations.

Tacking some law or laws onto the cross of grace is a popular pastime with man's created denominations. Forbidding to marry and forced to not eat certain foods. If you miss a church service you are deemed a backslider. You cannot have musical instruments in the gathering place. You must use the exact right phrase when baptized or it's not bonefide.

On and on with Jesus plus this and Jesus plus that. Back to the unkeepable law.

Grace plus. An unbearable burden.

 

[justbyfaith]

You must use the exact right phrase when baptized or it's not bonefide.

1 Peter 3:20-21 and Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12 might indeed tell us so.

If baptism saves, then it would not be baptism in titles but in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth that saves...so it is not about a phrase but about a NAME.

Of course a man can be saved merely by calling upon that name...of Jesus Christ of Nazareth...Romans 10:13 and Acts of the Apostles 4:10-12.

 

[Frank Lee]

Really?... I didn't know that.

 

[bbyrd009]

I assume then that you are not fishing? LOL

not, yes

If the hook that you are using is to big, the fish will not/cannot bite.

ha ya, i get you. suits me fine though, i got nothing to teach anyone tbh.

 

[bbyrd009]

Which part. you believe HE did or you dont believe He did, at all.....One is faith the other speaks of no faith. And if you dont believe He did, than why may I ask are you here.

mjr, i just got done saying "both are true in a sense" right?
So now what am i supposed to do with this?
"See mjr, when grownups talk like that it means ..." lol i mean pls bro

Oh, so let me get this straight

yes bc when the lightning really flashes that is the universally accepted response right

the cost of your sin is greater than the price Jesus paid

20No Son of Man may die for another's sins; the soul that sins will die. This scripture has not been annulled, mjr

Or is it that it is impossible for God to save man

your current def of 'saved' is Death, More Abundantly mjr, and the only reason i keep replying to you? Is so you can keep ignoring posts like these, so that we two can then demonstrate the lack of "Circuit" in our conversations, see, i directly address your posts, and you leave? notice yet how that keeps happening? ha, maybe you haven't noticed that yet, i dunno

so man , some men, choose to try save themselves

they are free to seek immortality in Valhalla with Zeus/Jupiter, our Father (Acts 14, 19) after they have literally died too if they like, fine with me mjr

Wont happen ever.

19you and your sons will be here with me, mjr
so imo what won't happen, ever, is you addressing this post lol, huh?
so go get as saved up as you need to, after you got the def down to where you want it, and i truly wish you the best of luck ok
oh Least in the Kingdom

Yes this bit.

Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

there is a lot of it in Christianity,

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

no, not that bit at all, it does not address "works meet for salvation" at all, see, any idiot can see that mjr

I guess for you it will never be a gift, you insist like many on paying the price yourself, and you simply will never be able too.

we have all been freed from the law of sin and death mjr, and i mean no disrespect here ok but you do not understand what the gift even is if you believe that it has released you from the minimum requirements placed on us by the Ten Commandments, as your next misunderstanding below will even show,

All the law ever did and will ever do, is kill people, and you will just be another one.

the Law is Holy, and never killed a soul mjr; disobeying the law used to bring instant death, yes, it was called The Law of Sin and Death for a good reason, that being that when ppl came spouting crap that went directly against Scripture as if it were Scripture we could then kill them, rather than forgiving them, yes, 22In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, which does not mean what you wish it meant either imo, sorry. That v is not a direction, it is a condemnation, ok.

So now you have just been led to Romans too early i guess, before you learned to read "the law brings death" in context, before you learned that It was Holy iow, and all so you could add another god to your Pantheon, i guess, which i could only too easily show you where the Father/Son/Virgin worship system originated from whenever you like, huh, even if the dress is prettier to us now?

So contradict Christ as long as you feel led, ok,
Matthew 23:3 Lexicon: therefore all that they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds; for they say things and do not do them.
i got 20 others, easy, prolly 50 mjr.

and since our history so strongly suggests that you will ignore this post too,
have a nice day and enjoy your turkey ok

Though not called so Jesus plus is the prevailing doctrine of denominations.

Tacking some law or laws onto the cross of grace is a popular pastime with man's created denominations. Forbidding to marry and forced to not eat certain foods. If you miss a church service you are deemed a backslider. You cannot have musical instruments in the gathering place. You must use the exact right phrase when baptized or it's not bonefide.

On and on with Jesus plus this and Jesus plus that. Back to the unkeepable law.

Grace plus. An unbearable burden.

now when you denounce this i am with you ok @mjrhealth

 

[bbyrd009]

Sin still brings death, right, just bc someone feels they are able to say "I am saved" does not mean that sin no longer brings death to them, mjr, it is just now revealed to be "spiritual death," for which we now have Good News, that wadr won't interest you much i guess bc it involves confessing your sins, and you don't have any to confess in your model right

maybe i could have put this nicer but i'm not meaning to be denigrating or condescending here ok,
obviously confession of sins would not interest someone who is sinless?

 

[bbyrd009]

and someone who believed that Jesus died as a blood sacrifice to "cover" their sins, hmm,
what system should we place this person in, do you think?

Christ has nothing to do with our expectations--thank God--and the invitation by their supposed Blood Sacrifice to pick up their crosses and follow Him remains valid even for them i bet

 

[bbyrd009]

He has to pick up his own cross and die on it in order to be saved...so of course that would be the case.

^

 

[justbyfaith]

22In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, which does not mean what you wish it meant either imo, sorry. That v is not a direction, it is a condemnation, ok.

It (Hebrews 9:22) does mean what we have always interpreted it to mean; that we are justified by nothing less than the blood of Jesus Christ (Romans 5:9, Romans 3:25).

20No Son of Man may die for another's sins; the soul that sins will die. This scripture has not been annulled, mjr

Romans 3:25 is not disanulled by the scripture that you have quoted...which, btw, was out of context and not quoted exactly from the source, with reference given.

 

[justbyfaith]

Really?... I didn't know that.

You learn something new every day! :cool:

 

[Frank Lee]

Preaching to the choir again! Hahaha

 

[bbyrd009]

It (Hebrews 9:22) does mean what we have always interpreted it to mean; that we are justified by nothing less than the blood of Jesus Christ (Romans 5:9, Romans 3:25).

under the law that is certainly true, yes

Romans 3:25 is not disanulled by the scripture that you have quoted

i never said that it did, but in fact even acknowledged that we have been freed from the law of sin and death by Jesus' sacrifice.

So it seems as if we are speaking at cross-purposes here, and there is still some mystery involved...could you rephrase a Q to me, or maybe i can to you, if you want to proceed here, ty

why would you need to pick up your cross and follow, if your beliefs are true?

which, btw, was out of context and not quoted exactly from the source, with reference given.

ah, wadr that is bc i do not acknowledge you as Thread Director,
not bc you have failed to provide any better context?
i'm pretty sure the context will hold up, we can certainly go NT for this too if you like,
be perfect as I am perfect
9Don’t you know that the unrighteousl will not inherit God’s kingdom?m Do not be deceived: Nosexually immoral people, idolaters,n adulterers,o or anyone practicing homosexuality,p, q
10no thieves,rgreedys people, drunkards, verbally abusive people,t or swindlersu will inherit God’s kingdom.

et al

 

[bbyrd009]

Preaching to the choir again! Hahaha

more like women speaking out of turn in congregation i guess, not meaning to be denigrating to anyone though, that's just what it looks like imo. i've sure done my share too

8Instead, you act unjustly and cheat — and you do this to believers!

which i guess we have a fairly established etiquette for cheating in posting, and it would mostly be pointless to devolve into mentioning the Straw Men and whatnot, that any reader can judge for themselves anyway

You learn something new every day! :cool:

well see when you have done that you will then understand that you should be apologizing for this, i guess

Really?... I didn't know that.

 

[justbyfaith]

i never said that it did, but in fact even acknowledged that we have been freed from the law of sin and death by Jesus' sacrifice.

I would only point out that Jesus died in our place and that this is the epitome of the gospel.

under the law that is certainly true, yes

Because it is true it means that we are no longer under the law if we believe in Christ.

well see when you have done that you will then understand that you should be apologizing for this, i guess

I do not see the need to apologize for something that was said tongue-in-cheek in the first place.

 

[bbyrd009]

I would only point out that Jesus died in our place and that this is the epitome of the gospel.

that is what we are taught, yes, but that is obviously not what Christ Himself teaches.

so see that you have chosen to quote a snip here in order to reiterate, dbl-down,
and chosen to not respond to the part that matters, and i guess i am s'posed to go along with your cherry-picking expedition here, and nod at your sage, selective wisdom?

Because it is true it means that we are no longer under the law if we believe in Christ.

you can dance if you want to, you can leave your friends behind,
but you cannot respond to why you would need to pick up your cross and follow if your beliefs are true?

so wadr i don't even have to consider whether or not to believe you, see, i mean metaphorically speaking i can barely even hear you over the cannon shots, every time you have to duck your head down?
Ppl are quickly going to get an immunity to this "nevermind that, what about this again?" stuff, i bet
the demons also have faith is what goes here; the rest of us will be judged for our works.

and if who is under the law in that scenario is not obv enough to you yet just listen for who is in denial, or who cannot answer simple Qs, cherry-picking irrelevant snips to reply to, or who is playing i'm rubber you're glue or whichever other dbl-down tactic might work to deflect from addressing the points. Surely it must be me!

I do not see the need to apologize for something that was said tongue-in-cheek in the first place.

and yet you know that i am no apologist for Frank, so you can do the math there too
if i heard tic i would be laughing too i guess

 

[Zachary]

Grace plus. An unbearable burden.

Okay, you refuse to accept God's warnings in the NT.
Do you ignore them, or do you reject them?

Now ... Jesus said if you love Him, you will obey His commandments!
(He said this in 4 different verses in John 14)
Do you believe you'll be welcomed into heaven, if you don't love Jesus?

Jesus said if you are His friend, you will obey His commandments!
(He said this in 1 verse in John 15)
Do you believe you'll be welcomed into heaven, if you aren't Jesus' friend?

 

[Frank Lee]

So long Zac!