"Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Faith" - Has 500 Years Taught Us Nothing?

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BreadOfLife

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Many have knowledge of the Gospel but will not receive it :(
You didn't READ post #468.

Go back and read what it says about EPIGNOSIS. Only a born again follower of Christ has epignosis of Him - and the verses I presented say that even THAT person can LOSE it all.
 

Heb 13:8

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You didn't READ post #468.

Go back and read what it says about EPIGNOSIS. Only a born again follower of Christ has epignosis of Him - and the verses I presented say that even THAT person can LOSE it all.

It's not about what you can do, the work has been done on the cross. it's about Christ and what He already did for you.
 

amadeus

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It's not about what you can do, the work has been done on the cross. it's about Christ and what He already did for you.
What about what he is to do or is doing in us? Are these not what it is about for us?

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." John 14:12
 

BreadOfLife

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Well, we already know we can't abandon Him. It's already finished, the work has been done

Jhn 3:16-18 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Jhn 5:24 "Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

Jhn 6:35-40 Then Jesus declared, “I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me will never go hungry, and whoever believes in me will never be thirsty. 36But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe. 37All those the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away. 38For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me. 39And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. 40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Jhn 7:37-39 On the last and greatest day of the festival, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, “Let anyone who is thirsty come to me and drink. 38Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified.

Jhn 10:25-30 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”

Act 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

Rom 6:3-4 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Rom 8:31-39 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34Who then is the one who condemns? No one. Christ Jesus who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36As it is written: “For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.” 37No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2Co 1:21-22 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

2Co 5:4-6 For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed instead with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. 5Now the one who has fashioned us for this very purpose is God, who has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. 6Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord.

Eph 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Phil 1:4-6 In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy 5because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Col 2:13-15 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

1Ti 1:16 But for that very reason I was shown mercy so that in me, the worst of sinners, Christ Jesus might display his immense patience as an example for those who would believe in him and receive eternal life.

Tit 1:1-2 Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness— 2in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,

Heb 6:16-20 People swear by someone greater than themselves, and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument. 17Because G

1 Pet 1:3-5 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade. This inheritance is kept in heaven for you, 5who through faith are shielded by God’s power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

2 Pet 2:8-9 (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)— 9if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from trials and to hold the unrighteous for punishment on the day of judgment.

1 Jhn 5:9-14 We accept human testimony, but God’s testimony is greater because it is the testimony of God, which he has given about his Son. 10Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son. 11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us.

Jude 1:1 Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ and a brother of James, To those who have been called, who are loved in God the Father and kept for a Jesus Christ:

Rev 22:17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let the one who hears say, "Come!" Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.
ALL of these verses contain stipulations.

“Whoever believes in Him"

“Whoever hears my word and believes Him who sent me has eternal life.”

I will never drive them away”

Nobody can snatch them from my hand.”

“Whoever believes in me”

My sheep listen to my voice; I know them and they follow me.””

"All those who were anointed for eternal life believed.”


ALL of these verses speak to the PROMISES of Christ – which are wonderful. However - NONE of them mention the fact that we must remain faithful to in order to receive them. The verses I resented in post #468 speak to exactly THAT.

God’s guarantees are for those who REMAIN FAITHFUL to the END. They aren’t for those who fall away from Him and retreat back into a life of sin and rebellion.

ALL Scripture must be taken in CONTEXT or you have perverted it ALL.
 

Heb 13:8

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What about what he is to do or is doing in us? Are these not what it is about for us?

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." John 14:12

Right, we do works not to save ourselves but to glorify the Father.
 

BreadOfLife

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It's not about what you can do, the work has been done on the cross. it's about Christ and what He already did for you.
It's about how you COOPERATE with and RESPOND to that grace.
Sitting around and ignoring Him WON'T save you . . .
 

Heb 13:8

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ALL of these verses speak to the PROMISES of Christ – which are wonderful. However - NONE of them mention the fact that we must remain faithful to in order to receive them. The verses I resented in post #468 speak to exactly THAT.

It's not about you and your filthy righteousness. Stop putting the focus on you. It's about believing in what He already did for you. It is finished.
 

BreadOfLife

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No, the truth has nothing to do with me and everything to do with what Christ already accomplished
So we DON'T have to believe??
We DON'T have to respond to His call??

That is Anti-biblical nonsense.
 

BreadOfLife

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It's not about you and your filthy righteousness. Stop putting the focus on you. It's about believing in what He already did for you. It is finished.
We STILL have to BELIEVE.
That is something WE do in response.
 

BreadOfLife

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Yes, one has to believe in order to be saved. we work not to save ourselves but to glorify the Father
Your response to God's call is NECESSARY for salvation.

Simply ignoring His call will NOT save you. He did the work - but WE must cooperate.
Our works are an essential part of our faith:
Faith = Belief + Works (obedience)
 
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BreadOfLife

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and that's what saints do because the Holy Spirit never leaves them, Eph 1:13-14, ;
WRONG.

A true, born again believer with an EPIGNOSIS of Christ can turn away from Him and LOSE it all.

I gave you several passages of Scripture that prove this.
 

Mjh29

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WRONG.

A true, born again believer with an EPIGNOSIS of Christ can turn away from Him and LOSE it all.

I gave you several passages of Scripture that prove this.

So it is up to you to save yourself?

In the end, when God asks "Why should I allow you in my presence?" your reply will be "Because I was able to keep myself afloat in life."

In the end, it is the merit of your own ability that gets you into heaven?

wow... using bold type IS fun... i should do it more often!
 

BreadOfLife

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So it is up to you to save yourself?

In the end, when God asks "Why should I allow you in my presence?" your reply will be "Because I was able to keep myself afloat in life."

In the end, it is the merit of your own ability that gets you into heaven?

wow... using bold type IS fun... i should do it more often!
Why would you jump that that conclusion??
Who said anything about saving themselves??

We are saved by God’s grace because of the finished work of Christ on the cross – PERIOD.
HOWEVERremaining faithful is up to US. The Holy Spirit cannot help if we REFUSE it.

The god of OSAS is a Cosmic Rapist who forces his love on people, dragging them kicking and screaming into Heaven against their will.

The God of Scripture – of the Catholic Church – gives US the choice to believe and serve Him or to reject Him – at ANY POINT in our lives. Anything less would be Spiritual Rape.
 

Mjh29

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We are saved by God’s grace because of the finished work of Christ on the cross – PERIOD.
HOWEVERremaining faithful is up to US. The Holy Spirit cannot help if we REFUSE it.

If you cant see the blatant contradiction in this statement, then I do not know what will help. How can you say Christ's work is finished and then turn around and say that we have to finish it? Do you not see this is a blatant contradiction?!?

The god of OSAS is a Cosmic Rapist who forces his love on people, dragging them kicking and screaming into Heaven against their will.

The sheer fact that you would even say this shows your ignorance of anything outside of you narrow minded Catholic doctrine. God changes the sinners heart! He is gracious and opens our eyes to his love, and then we can't help but fall in love with him!

The God of Scripture – of the Catholic Church – gives US the choice to believe and serve Him or to reject Him – at ANY POINT in our lives. Anything less would be Spiritual Rape.

And the God of the true Christian faith is in control of his creation, and changes the hearts of his people to want to love and serve Him, and has sent his Spirit to bring us along in that end. Anything less than that is striping God of His due glory, and gives man a merit in his own salvation.

.... hehehe BOLD TYPE MAKES ME SOUND ANGRRRRYYY
 

BreadOfLife

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If you cant see the blatant contradiction in this statement, then I do not know what will help. How can you say Christ's work is finished and then turn around and say that we have to finish it? Do you not see this is a blatant contradiction?!?

The sheer fact that you would even say this shows your ignorance of anything outside of you narrow minded Catholic doctrine. God changes the sinners heart! He is gracious and opens our eyes to his love, and then we can't help but fall in love with him!

And the God of the true Christian faith is in control of his creation, and changes the hearts of his people to want to love and serve Him, and has sent his Spirit to bring us along in that end. Anything less than that is striping God of His due glory, and gives man a merit in his own salvation.

.... hehehe BOLD TYPE MAKES ME SOUND ANGRRRRYYY
And that response shown that you don’t understand God’s Word.

In the verses I showed you back in post #468 – it speaks of a person who has an EPIGNOSIS of Christ. As I have repeatedly explained to you – Epignosis is a FULL, experiential and relational knowledge – like a spouse has. It ALSO talks about the dangers of this type pf born again person falling away and LOSING their secure place.

ONLY a born again believer has an Epignosis of Christ.
What part of Epignosis are you having difficulty understanding??

A changed heart is only changed as long as the person WANTS it to be.
That’s what FREE WILL is all about.
 

Phoneman777

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Hey Phoneman. You often reference The Church as having a problem with predatory priest and call it the whore of Babylon. Did you know the problem with sex abuse is higher in schools and Protestant Churches? Here is ONE study that backs it up. https://www.researchgate.net/public...lysis_of_Offense_and_Offender_Characteristics
Nonsense. Plenty of "non-denom", "emergent church" fly-by-night wolves in sheep's clothing who are only there to exploit children and wallets and flee if the system begins to catch up to them. It's unfair to sully the sterling reputation of mainline, Bible-thumping Protestantism and its properly trained, ordained, dedicated faith leaders with those whose father is the devil.

However, catholicism boasts to be "the one united universal church". Catholic faith leaders have no opportunity to declare themselves "called by God" on Sunday and then be molesting the children of their new church members by Wednesday, as in the case of many fake preachers in what is unfairly claimed to be "Christian" or "Protestant".
I assume that you came to the conclusion that the CC is the "Whore of Babylon" the antichrist church etc. etc. by studying scripture?
Yes, as did the millions of Christians throughout the Christian world did since the time of Luther and before as well. And can you fault us? The papacy itself claims to be "anti-Christ".
Since you can read scripture and properly interpret it to determine that the CC is the church of the antichrist you are clearly a bible scholar. Based on your interpretation of Scripture, which church is The Church spoke of in Scripture that speaks the Truth if it isn't the CC?
The people that "keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus Christ". Catholicism claims to have changed God's commandments into their own commandments, and faith in the priesthood to impart salvation to us irrespective of any sacrifice of Christ is all that is necessary, and that Christ's primary use to us is for His merit of good deeds to lessen our time in purgatory.