The Devil's Lies Must be Exposed - Do Not Be Deceived

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
...True his 'spiritual' end is not mentioned in scripture..
That is incorrect. The spiritual end of Judas is spelled out in this verse, and it means exactly what it says -- a child of Hell.

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. (John 17:12)

What does *lost* mean in Scripture? It means without Christ, hence damned. And to make sure that there would be no misunderstanding about the nature of Judas, the Lord had already made it clear in John 6:70,71: Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil? He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

The same term -- the son of perdition -- is applied to the Antichrist.

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (2 Thess 2:3,4)

So the devil must be rolling on the floor laughing, that in a thread which is supposed to expose the lies of the devil, we have Christians misrepresenting the truth about a child of the devil -- Judas -- and making him out to be a righteous man, who might possibly even be saved after all!
 
  • Like
Reactions: brakelite

Willie T

Heaven Sent
Staff member
Sep 14, 2017
5,869
7,426
113
St. Petersburg Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
LOL ...I didn't know that we agreed on so much!! :D
Pastor Matt Boswell made a list which may or may not apply to our pastors.
1, We take it personally when you leave the church.
2, We feel pressure to perform week after week.
3, We struggle with getting our worth from ministry.
4, We regularly think about quitting.
5, We say we are transparent – It’s actually opaque.
6, We measure ourselves by the numbers.
7, We spend more time discouraged than encouraged.
8, We worry about what you think. We’re human and we want to be liked.
9, We struggle with competition and jealousy.
10, We feel as if we fail you more than we helped you.

Encourage, appreciate and pray for your pastor.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Acolyte and Helen

Hidden In Him

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2018
10,600
10,883
113
59
Lafayette, LA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It seems to be a thing of pretty unreasonable importance to many of us that we be able to say with total certainty that WE KNOW the absolute truth about whatever may be under discussion at any given time. It is like some of us feel we are not Spiritual, or are un-Christian unless we can claim that POV.

Again, understand Willie. I don't really take a firm stand on all who commit suicide like some do. Nor do I ever feel motivated to take a particular doctrinal - ANY doctrinal position - simply because I need to appear "Christian." I can be fairy unorthodox in my positions sometimes, and it doesn't bother me not one iota. But I have a Biblical narrative to go by in the case of Judas, so I am approaching it as I do any other Biblical text, as an interpreter. The word states point blank that Satan entered into Judas (Luke 22:3) and then Judas betrayed Jesus to His death, after walking with Him as a disciple for three years. Likewise today when murderers take the lives of those close to them, like wives, girlfriends, children, family members, they then turn the gun to themselves. Once they have been used by the Devil to carry out the murder, the same demons drive him to kill himself as well. It is a pattern often repeated, so I simply have every reason to believe it did not turn out well for Judas, not that I take this position about all who commit suicide necessarily.

I'm actually a bit taken back that I am getting so much reaction on this discussion. Appears it generates a lot of feelings.
 

Hidden In Him

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2018
10,600
10,883
113
59
Lafayette, LA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
They were totally broken, they could not believe that God could possibly forgive them.

This right here is at the heart of what I believe may have happened with Judas. But it is unbelief. I recall reading a story in one of the Hell accounts, and Jesus pointed out to her a man burning in Hell who died and went there specifically because he had committed murder, and didn't believe God would forgive him. But we have to turn our eyes away from ourselves and place faith in His love for us in order to receive His forgiveness, and if we cannot then it proves we didn't trust Him enough and love Him enough to forgive ourselves by doing so. It's very sad, but unbelievers who do not recognize Him as a Forgiver of sins do not know Him, and as such never come to Him.
We heard later that both died at their own hand. ( but actually I will say...killed by devils...like the old voodoo stuff, it you believe they have power, then you have given them power...and these men believed the devils would get them and drag them to hell. )

This goes to point. It is like having more faith in the Devil and in his works than in God; faithlessness towards God, but faith in devils.
Two men at different times of life, two men in different continents , two men hearing the same old lies from the devils..and both believing.

Both so obviously loved God, but believed the devils lies that He could not long love them. It was heartbreaking. And they were heartbroken.

I 100% expect to see them in the kingdom.

Helen, I didn't read this part until just now (was responding as I went), so I really don't want to say anymore. My intention is not to hurt anyone's feelings on this thread.
 

Hidden In Him

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2018
10,600
10,883
113
59
Lafayette, LA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
"Aha"??????? (Good grief!)

What? :) Nobody was talking about friends or family in this thread. All the talk was about Judas, and we were debating whether he was a literal devil or not.

Maybe I'm just not as up on how any talk of suicide at all tends to spark reaction. But again, I've been suicidal, but my love for God has always outweighed my desire to take my own life, so I find it hard to sympathize with personally. But then again, I have not lost anyone close to me through suicide either, so maybe that's why I discuss it without being as deeply effected.
 

Willie T

Heaven Sent
Staff member
Sep 14, 2017
5,869
7,426
113
St. Petersburg Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What? :) Nobody was talking about friends or family in this thread. All the talk was about Judas, and we were debating whether he was a literal devil or not.

Maybe I'm just not as up on how any talk of suicide at all tends to spark reaction. But again, I've been suicidal, but my love for God has always outweighed my desire to take my own life, so I find it hard to sympathize with personally. But then again, I have not lost anyone close to me through suicide either, so maybe that's why I discuss it without being as deeply effected.
The "Aha" I repeated was about your "Gottcha" expression. No, people are not hoping to excuse suicides close to them by somehow getting Judas into Heaven. And it seems a little insulting for you to associate the two that way. They are saying that killing yourself is not unbelief in God.
Even the two disciples Jesus met on the road to Emmaus firmly believed Jesus was simply dead and gone forever. As did probably all the other disciples. Are we to say that they did not believe.... though their every action said they did not?
 
Last edited:

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I think he is one of the more capable people here for the task.

Seventh-day Adventism (SDA) follows most of the beliefs of conventional conservative Christianity including creation in six days, original sin, the virgin birth of Jesus Christ and the existence of Satan, just to name a few.

But there are some beliefs that set SDA apart from other Protestant Christians. Below is a list of five of those beliefs:

1. Ellen White Theories: Ellen White is recognized by the Seventh-day Adventist church as having received the gift of prophecy as outlined in Ephesians 4 and 1 Corinthians 12. SDA sees the written works by Ellen White as "a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction,"
according to their fundamental beliefs, as listed by Adventist.org.


2. Resurrection: SDA believes when a person dies, they remain unconscious until they are resurrected. Eternal life is a gift which God only grants to those who have accepted the sacrifice of Christ on their behalf. By an act of mercy on the part of God, the wicked will be destroyed by fire. Thus, Seventh-day Adventists do not believe that a person goes to heaven for an eternal reward or to hell for never-ending torture immediately upon death.

3. Investigative judgment: SDA believe in salvation by faith in Christ alone. Good works are seen as evidence of that faith. The investigative or pre-advent judgment, which takes place in heaven before the return of Jesus, reveals to heavenly intelligences who among the dead are asleep in Jesus and will have a part in the first resurrection and who among the living are abiding in Christ and are ready for translation. This judgment vindicates the justice of God in saving those who believe in Jesus.

4. The Second Coming: SDA believes that the second coming of Christ is near and believers should be ready for it at all times. When Christ does come, the righteous Christians who had previously died will be resurrected at that time and taken to heaven. For the following 1,000 years, only Satan and his fallen angels will be living on earth. A second resurrection will occur at the end of that period. At that time Satan and his evil angels, as well as the wicked, will be destroyed. The righteous will then return to a cleansed earth, and establish the New Jerusalem.

5. Lifestyle: When it comes to lifestyle, Seventh-day Adventists hold the belief that the human body is the temple of God and thus should be cared for properly. Because of this, Adventists abstain from harmful substances like alcohol and tobacco, and maintain a vegetarian diet. Abortion is acceptable only when a woman's life is in danger, and in cases where a pregnancy poses a serious moral dilemma.

What do you see as any particular problem with someone holding those beliefs leading Bible Study on this forum? No one can teach unless they believe exactly as you do, *CoreIssue*?
When they are all in error I most assuredly do.
 

Hidden In Him

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2018
10,600
10,883
113
59
Lafayette, LA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
The "Aha" I repeated was about your "Gottcha" expression.

It was not a "gotcha" expression, Willie. I'm not so petty as to worry about who wins debates. When have you known me to do that sort of thing? I used it in the sense that it was dawning on me now why she seemed so concerned about the question of what became of Judas, since there seemed to be more behind her posts than just a debate over interpretations, and some sort of emotional involvement in it I didn't understand.
No, people are not hoping to excuse suicides close to them by somehow getting Judas into Heaven. And it seems a little insulting for you to associate the two that way.

Look. I was trying to get to the bottom of what she was saying. That's why I was asking her. And I was still waiting for a reply to see if that was it.

Don't worry. I'm not anymore. I'm apparently offending the daylights out of everyone, so I think I'll just drop it altogether.
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What I've looked at that he has supplied has seemed biblically sound. I don't even agree with everything that the pastor of our bible study says but I take what helps me and file at the back of my mind things the pastor says that don't seem to click or that I don't agree with.

There is no such thing as the Sanctuary Judgment. He is completely off base on the resurrection and the end times.

Ellen G White is a false prophet.

The SDA are considered a cult by most Christians.
 

Willie T

Heaven Sent
Staff member
Sep 14, 2017
5,869
7,426
113
St. Petersburg Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There is no such thing as the Sanctuary Judgment. He is completely off base on the resurrection and the end times.

Ellen G White is a false prophet.

The SDA are considered a cult by most Christians.
I think your last remark is totally mistaken. And what does any of the rest of it have to do with him being a good Bible teacher?
 
Last edited:

Willie T

Heaven Sent
Staff member
Sep 14, 2017
5,869
7,426
113
St. Petersburg Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It was not a "gotcha" expression, Willie. I'm not so petty as to worry about who wins debates. When have you known me to do that sort of thing? I used it in the sense that it was dawning on me now why she seemed so concerned about the question of what became of Judas, since there seemed to be more behind her posts than just a debate over interpretations, and some sort of emotional involvement in it I didn't understand.


Look. I was trying to get to the bottom of what she was saying. That's why I was asking her. And I was still waiting for a reply to see if that was it.

Don't worry. I'm not anymore. I'm apparently offending the daylights out of everyone, so I think I'll just drop it altogether.
If I misunderstood the way you meant it, I apologize.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hidden In Him

Willie T

Heaven Sent
Staff member
Sep 14, 2017
5,869
7,426
113
St. Petersburg Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I hope none of us ever shirk from having offended anyone. But rather, learn from people's responses, and perhaps use a few more words of explanation the next time around to more fully express the complete intent of our replies.
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Your last remark is totally mistaken. And what does any of the rest of it have to do with him being a good Bible teacher?

My last comment is not off-base.

A good Bible teacher knows facts, not error. Like a math teacher does not teach one plus one equals 11.

Are Seventh Day Adventists a Cult?

A biggie here is the claim Michael is Christ.

Another is Satan will bare our sins, not Christ.

Then there is the denial of hell and affirmation of soul sleep.

Is Seventh-Day Adventism a Cult?


And more.
 

Willie T

Heaven Sent
Staff member
Sep 14, 2017
5,869
7,426
113
St. Petersburg Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
them Will Satan be punished for Eternity?
Was that not our sentence that Satan will experience?
Then Satan is going to suffer what we would have, is he not.

Is Christ being punished today?
Was He punished in the "Lake of Fire"...… or in Hell?
Didn't He take our place in death, and was it not God who "forgave" our sins because He did that? Christ is not "bearing" our sins today. He grabbed them just long enough to get them nailed to that cross, and left there in death when He raised.

I think in your desire to hate things not of your understanding, you are reading far too much into many things. Frankly, your own website SoF scares me at how much hatred is shown there.
 

Soverign Grace

Well-Known Member
Sep 15, 2018
2,948
1,708
113
73
Palmyra
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
There is no such thing as the Sanctuary Judgment. He is completely off base on the resurrection and the end times.

Ellen G White is a false prophet.

The SDA are considered a cult by most Christians.
I haven't studied anything about the Sanctuary Judgment. I was raised Catholic and didn't know the first thing about the bible. When I sought God I didn't know any believers and was on my own. I had somehow come across Ellen White's book "Steps to Christ" and God used it to show me that I had been spiritually reborn - I was so in the dark I didn't even know what had happened to me until I read about it in her booklet. So I don't know what most Christians think about it being a cult, but I know that God used her booklet to show me what had happened to me.:)
 

Stranger

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2016
8,826
3,157
113
Texas
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Again, understand Willie. I don't really take a firm stand on all who commit suicide like some do. Nor do I ever feel motivated to take a particular doctrinal - ANY doctrinal position - simply because I need to appear "Christian." I can be fairy unorthodox in my positions sometimes, and it doesn't bother me not one iota. But I have a Biblical narrative to go by in the case of Judas, so I am approaching it as I do any other Biblical text, as an interpreter. The word states point blank that Satan entered into Judas (Luke 22:3) and then Judas betrayed Jesus to His death, after walking with Him as a disciple for three years. Likewise today when murderers take the lives of those close to them, like wives, girlfriends, children, family members, they then turn the gun to themselves. Once they have been used by the Devil to carry out the murder, the same demons drive him to kill himself as well. It is a pattern often repeated, so I simply have every reason to believe it did not turn out well for Judas, not that I take this position about all who commit suicide necessarily.

I'm actually a bit taken back that I am getting so much reaction on this discussion. Appears it generates a lot of feelings.

Forget about Judas suicide. That did not make him what he was. He was and is the son of perdition. His end is based on that. Just as the end of all are based on that. Who are you of? All this other is just smokescreen.

Stranger
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hidden In Him

Hidden In Him

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2018
10,600
10,883
113
59
Lafayette, LA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Forget about Judas suicide. That did not make him what he was. He was and is the son of perdition. His end is based on that. Just as the end of all are based on that. Who are you of? All this other is just smokescreen.

Stranger

Thats actually a very good point. Thanks for clearing the matter up some.