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Featured The Devil's Lies Must be Exposed - Do Not Be Deceived

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by AlertChristians, Dec 6, 2018.

  1. Soverign Grace

    Soverign Grace Well-Known Member

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    I don't know anything about Mormonism. I watched Professor Veith's videos and they are informative and are helping me to understand how Revelations is unfolding. "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." Eph. 5:11 - in my opinion he reproved - or exposed - the works of darkness. I see that as biblical.

    I know that lies are often intermingled with truth to spread deception - I've dealt with cunning people. That's why we're told to walk circumspectly. I feel as if we're walking through a minefield so I'm stepping carefully. We're each given a measure of discernment. I think Professor Veith is doing God's work. I think we have to be careful because anyone can be deceived - no matter what denomination it is. I've seen this in denominations and preachers that were not SDA.
     
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  2. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    No it just shows mens limits, and we do not know what God will do for only He knows the hearts of men, there are plenty of indications of lack of faith on these forums, people trying to save themselves, religion etc etc
     
  3. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Hey Chris.
    No worries...you started a good and interesting thread...it has just generated more response than you were expecting. :)

    As to the above. I cannot say.
    I knew these men for years...but when we got the call for help for the one in England...we drove up to London to his house.
    I can't remember if you have had dealing with demons..I somewhere thought that maybe you had clashed with them face to face....but I can't remember .. Anyway, when he opened the door to us we were shocked. I kid you not...he looked dreadful. So thin, and even his voice was 'not his' , if you know what I mean.
    He told us how he had not slept for days on end...every time he fell asleep 'they' woke him up by pinching him.
    It's easy to say- 'they had more faith in what the demons can do than faith in God' ( I am looping @brakelite in here too , he said almost the same) When it is happening to someone else , it's easy to think that we would be different.

    These poor men were totally deceived by the Enemy. Prayer, fasting, and an attempted deliverance did not work...the demons had taken their minds...they were as we say "besides themselves"...

    Maybe everyone else is right and they were lost. They were for sure in panic and totally lost to this world...I dare not say anything about the next, any more than I know about Judas.

    I have no answers.

    No worries, I wont care if you want to let this drop and not answer. :)

    Bless you lots...Helen
     
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  4. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Well said David. Agree.
     
  5. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    The SDA is theologically wrong, nonbiblical.

    I agree there is a need to be careful. There is a need to study the Bible, including a good interlinear to get the correct word meanings.

    Indeed there is a lot of error out there, but that does not make Veith accurate.

    No disrespect intended, but you've admitted you have a long way to go in learning.

    Good grief, I've even read atheist material that nailed fraudulent doctrines to the wall.
     
  6. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Well, actually AlertChristians started this thing. We just turned it into a ten page monstrosity, LoL. But you're right that it ended up with more response than I suspected when I first responded to him. I think I was just trying to argue from scripture that I think he was a little "off."
    This sounds like SUCH a tragic story. I'm not sure I'd wanna dwell on it one way of the other if they had been my friends...

    I would ask for more detail, but it sounds a little too heavy to want to already.

    Anyway, no problems. I was just hoping Willie wasn't too upset. Didn't mean things the way he took it.
     
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  7. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that @Willie T is one of the ones on this Site that gets too upset about things ...he can give and take like a big boy. :)
     
  8. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I also noticed he recently posted something on a mild condition he has with impulsiveness. I was thinking when I read it, "Yeah, maybe there is a slight problem there," LoL! But we all misread stuff in print. That's why I butcher my posts with LoLs and smiley faces all the time; trying to communicate to people that I'm not jumping down anybody's throat : )

    I should probably try and get some sleep. Let's see if it works tonight. :rolleyes: Thanks for the nice posts (and the Likes. Now that I'm more involved in all kinds of theology stuff, my "popularity" is going right down the septic tank, LoL).
     
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  9. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Right. That would be the one whereby Christians are protected from the troubles because Jesus keeps us from them. That one right? You do know there was another tribulation though huh, the one Willie spoke of in Revelations 1:9? I mean, even the holy Spirit called it tribulation right?
    I don't quite understand why Christians fail to recognise that the biggest tribulation in mankind history, lasting for 1260 years, causing the death of over 50 million souls.
    The coming tribulation you speak of, because we are protected, is not for us. Is for the world in the form of the last plagues. Doesn't mean Christians won't be getting a hard time, but compared to what many have gone through before us... And as Jesus says, it's only for an hour. Metaphorically of course, but compared to previous periods of tribulation, not long.
     
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  10. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    LOL
     
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  11. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    I would be interested in debating you on that just to find out how much you don't understand how Adventists think. I take it you've seldom talked with one to discover what he actually believes, and why?
     
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  12. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    I had a SDA friend a man called by God, last conversation I had with him was,

    You do know that God has called you,?? His answer yes another person told me the same thing.. But like so many his religion was more important than the things of God, dont know what he is doing these days.

    Mens religions an abomination before God....
     
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  13. Soverign Grace

    Soverign Grace Well-Known Member

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    I think we have to be careful about setting ourselves up as being the final judge of a person or their faith. We are to exercise discernment and keep the biblical warnings in mind. The point I was trying to make was that anyone can be deceived - even you, even me. We have to walk circumspectly and see where it leads and always keep in mind that deception can be found anywhere in any person in any denomination. When I first became a Christian I listened to many radio preachers and they had me twisted in knots: "Send in your seed-faith gift today and you will be blessed." That was all I knew - I thought I had to send in money to be blessed because I had no discernment and knew no believers mature in the faith to guide me. I learned how many bad teachers are out there - like wolves, who exploit people who earnestly seek to find God. I finally took everything they had sent me and burned it in the wood stove and decided to go by my own judgment. I began to think for myself. Little by little I "had my senses trained by reason of use" and used discernment about who I listened to and what I believe - and what rings true. And it's served me well. I try to listen very carefully for any variation away from the truth, or any injection of man's motives or human pride.

    I am going only by God - He knew how naive` I was - so much so that I didn't even know that I had been spiritually reborn - I had to read about it in the book "Steps to Christ." That was about 40 years ago. I can't see God using a cult to show me that He gave me spiritual rebirth, although I can't presume to speak for God; that's how I see it for now. I had left another forum and came here where I met Brakelite and Taken who knew about the things I had been seeing and how Revelations was being fulfilled and it was a relief. I had only met one other person who saw it. I was actually ridiculed by a moderator who set herself up as the judge of truth and error - the pride of man. I tried sharing it with two pastors at my bible study and one told me I'd better watch what I read on the internet. I was embarrassed and even doubted myself so went home and re-read a few things I had previously read and then I knew that it wasn't me that was deceived, it was the pastor. He had gone through seminary and we would look to him as teacher, but I saw that God shows people truths no matter what their station in life or occupation. We can't assume that a pastor necessarily knows more - or anyone else setting themselves up as an expert. Maybe that's why God was so against pride. And of course that's what made the evil one fall.

    Brakelite began saying things that made sense and recommended Professor Veith's videos and it fit with things I had begun seeing about the Pope. I watched several and found them to be sound and I began understanding more - God was using Brakelite to show me more of what He had started to show me about Revelations. It takes me a long time to absorb things sometimes and I may lose some of what I read or watch, but I listen very carefully; laboriously so I usually only absorb a little at a time. Throughout the years, my husband and I tried a number of churches and I found points of error in every one - none of which were SDA. That doesn't mean that I would lump all Presbyterian, Assembly of God, or independent bible-preaching churches together and dismiss them as a cult. I saw that in spiritual matters, deviation from the truth is widespread with man interjecting their own selves and motives. For instance - one church we went to, the pastor and his buddy used church funds to travel to someplace allegedly to evangelize it. But looking at it carefully, he only took his buddy who he had a lot of fun with - no one else was invited; only to donate money. I saw that they didn't have to travel to some faraway place - they could have walked outside the front door of the church to evangelize - the city was a cauldron of drugs and crime. They attempted to spiritualize their excuse for using church funds to basically go on a vacation. This is just one example of many many examples I saw over the years.

    We went to another church where the pastors set themselves up as little gods where they wounded people yet said that it was "God" who put them in their positions. Their thinking, in my opinion, was dangerous. God may open doors for someone to become a church leader, but for them to expect blind obedience and to hold the expectation that their decisions weren't to be questioned, and as ordained from above is dangerous. They hurt one of my children in that church and turned her off so much so that she refused to attend church for awhile - and I don't blame her. It was an issue of her marrying there - not one that held some lifelong doctrinal damage - and their attitude was judgmental and unloving. It hurt me so deeply that I prayed that God would take all sleep and peace away from the pastor because of what he'd done. The next Sunday we went to church and the pastor stood up to preach. The first words out of his mouth were: Your pastor hasn't been able to sleep...

    On the way out I shared how I had been praying (I patterned my prayer after the book of Esther when the king couldn't sleep) I was treated as a heretic after that. Those in our bible study group fell under the domination of the pastor and shunned us - it hurt. I guess a lowly church attendee who didn't hold a position in the church couldn't be expected to receive an answer to prayer - it must have been from the other side. But I don't serve the other side. I prayed to God out of deep concern for the wound they inflicted on someone I love. (I wish all my prayers were answered like that). I was hurt so went online to ask the advice of a number of pastors. I heard back from 11 pastors who all disagreed with that church. One Methodist minister's answer was pure gold. He told me that he wouldn't want to be in a church where the leadership mistreated people as they did, and turned them away from God instead of drawing them in over something inconsequential. I told the pastor that and shared their responses. He was so stiff-necked that he said that I told the pastors what I wanted them to hear - which wasn't the truth. Maybe it's the truth in other circumstances he's encountered (that's a common argument: you only told them what you wanted them to hear) but it was not the truth in this circumstance. My question was right there for him to read. I laid everything on the table. I then invited him to contact each pastor and pose the question from his POV. He refused. Why?

    It wasn't the truth and he knew it. He was afraid he'd get the same answer and then he would shown as the one who was wrong and he couldn't allow that since he was the pastor and I was a nobody. We left the church and I'm so glad we did. I later learned that pastor left the church. I didn't find out why but I suspect that their judgmental attitudes were either used on each other or on someone of 'importance' in that church. For other purposes I won't go into the overt sin of one of their elders, yet he served in that church. The stench of hypocrisy was bad there.

    We went to another church where the pastor would stand up there and praise certain families in the church, feeding their pride, and ingratiating himself to them. His motives were his own but one could surmise why he would do that. These are just a few of the examples I've seen of many. That doesn't mean that all Presbyterian and all independent bible churches are cults - it just means that some of the people who went there are deceived or acting on self-serving motives. It let me see that the church on a whole is a mess. The best that I have learned to do is to use discernment and pray that God show me truth.

    I actually feel guilty that I posed this to Brakelite and asked him to teach a bible study because he had to have his faith raked over the coals - all for sharing with me, which he didn't have to do, but I was grateful for. I hope that we can be careful with one another's feelings. I have been deeply wounded by other believers and I hope that it teaches - and continues to teach - me that we have to step carefully. Truth and error can be so entangled sometimes and by any person or any denomination. Man's pride is ever waiting to lurch forward - and it's in every person. But I think this has been a rich discussion and hopefully something good will come out of it.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
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  14. Soverign Grace

    Soverign Grace Well-Known Member

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    I've seen truth and error in every single denomination I've been in.
     
  15. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    That might be why God, in His Bible, tells us not to follow men. I keep repeating here that although each of us (the generic, "man") thinks we — and usually, we alone — have the true answer...…. none of us does.
     
  16. Willie T

    Willie T Well-Known Member

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    Our expectations of denominations...…………….
    We hold a door open for a woman. She walks through and says nothing.
    We let someone go ahead of us in traffic. They don't wave a "Thank you".
    We loan someone a buck and they don't split their lotery winnings with us.
    So?
    In all three cases we have projected our own personal expectations, and we learned that not all people think like us.

    The Old Man and the White Horse

    Max Lucado (In the Eye of the Storm)
    The Old Man and the White Horse

    Once there was an old man who lived in a tiny village. Although poor, he was envied by all, for he owned a beautiful white horse. Even the king coveted his treasure. A horse like this had never been seen before – such was its splendor, its majesty, its strength.

    People offered fabulous prices for the steed, but the old man always refused. “This horse is not a horse to me,” he would tell them. “It is a person. How could you sell a person? He is a friend, not a possession. How could you sell a friend.” The man was poor and the temptation was great. But he never sold the horse.

    One morning he found that the horse was not in his stable. All the village came to see him. “You old fool,” they scoffed, “we told you that someone would steal your horse. We warned you that you would be robbed. You are so poor. How could you ever protect such a valuable animal? It would have been better to have sold him. You could have gotten whatever price you wanted. No amount would have been too high. Now the horse is gone and you’ve been cursed with misfortune.”

    The old man responded, “Don’t speak too quickly. Say only that the horse is not in the stable. That is all we know; the rest is judgment. If I’ve been cursed or not, how can you know? How can you judge?”

    The people contested, “Don’t make us out to be fools! We may not be philosophers, but great philosophy is not needed. The simple fact that your horse is gone is a curse.”

    The old man spoke again. “All I know is that the stable is empty, and the horse is gone. The rest I don’t know. Whether it be a curse or a blessing, I can’t say. All we can see is a fragment. Who can say what will come next?”

    The people of the village laughed. They thought that the man was crazy. They had always thought he was a fool; if he wasn’t, he would have sold the horse and lived off the money. But instead, he was a poor woodcutter, an old man still cutting firewood and dragging it out of the forest and selling it. He lived hand to mouth in the misery of poverty. Now he had proven that he was, indeed, a fool.

    After fifteen days, the horse returned. He hadn’t been stolen; he had run away into the forest. Not only had he returned, he had brought a dozen wild horses with him. Once again, the village people gathered around the woodcutter and spoke. “Old man, you were right and we were wrong. What we thought was a curse was a blessing. Please forgive us.”

    The man responded, “Once again, you go too far. Say only that the horse is back. State only that a dozen horses returned with him, but don’t judge. How do you know if this is a blessing or not? You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge? You read only one page of a book. Can you judge the whole book? You read only one word of one phrase. Can you understand the entire phrase?”

    “Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. All you have is one fragment! Don’t say that this is a blessing. No one knows. I am content with what I know. I am not perturbed by what I don’t.”

    “Maybe the old man is right,” they said to one another. So they said little. But down deep, they knew he was wrong. They knew it was a blessing. Twelve wild horses had returned. With a little work, the animals could be broken and trained and sold for much money.

    The old man had a son, an only son. The young man began to break the wild horses. After a few days, he fell from one of the horses and broke both legs. Once again the villagers gathered around the old man and cast their judgments.

    “You were right,” they said. “You proved you were right. The dozen horses were not a blessing. They were a curse. Your only son has broken both his legs, and now in your old age you have no one to help you. Now you are poorer than ever.”

    The old man spoke again. “You people are obsessed with judging. Don’t go so far. Say only that my son broke his legs. Who knows if it is a blessing or a curse? No one knows. We only have a fragment. Life comes in fragments.”

    It so happened that a few weeks later the country engaged in war against a neighboring country. All the young men of the village were required to join the army. Only the son of the old man was excluded, because he was injured. Once again the people gathered around the old man, crying and screaming because their sons had been taken. There was little chance that they would return. The enemy was strong, and the war would be a losing struggle. They would never see their sons again.

    “You were right, old man,” They wept. “God knows you were right. This proves it. Your son’s accident was a blessing. His legs may be broken, but at least he is with you. Our sons are gone forever.”

    The old man spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. No one knows. Say only this. Your sons had to go to war, and mine did not. No one knows if it is a blessing or a curse. No one is wise enough to know. Only God knows.”
     
  17. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    I read further on in the responses here. Hidden in Him...you haven’t offended me. We were discussing: you have a view, I have another. I do realize the majority might say the same concerning Judas so what you said is not unique. It is not the first time I’ve debated over Judas so no the reason is not what you asked. As ByGrace said...we just don’t know for certain about Judas. You say yes you know for certain. I don’t. Jesus always casts out devils that tormented. In Judas’ case Jesus allowed Satan to enter so that scripture would be fulfilled. Jesus allowed satan to enter and remain in Judas for the good of the whole. For the good of the eleven...not including Judas? It just doesn’t line up with: Luke 15:4-7 What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it? [5] And when he hath found it , he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing. [6] And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost. [7] I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

    It doesn’t line up with a(The) God who longs for mercy and not sacrifice.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
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  18. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Christians won't have any hard times because we will be in heaven.

    The prior times you are talking about were not sent by God as the tribulation will be. No AC, no locusts coming out of the pit, no sinking all the ships on the ocean, no shattering all the islands, no 2/3 of humanity dying. No rapture, no second coming and no comparison.
    Seven years, not 1260 years. A number you are taking from Revelation and trying to make historical.


    Revelations 1:9 is no tribulation period.

    Revelation 1:9 New International Version (NIV)
    John’s Vision of Christ
    9 I, John, your brother and companion in the suffering and kingdom and patient endurance that are ours in Jesus, was on the island of Patmos because of the word of God and the testimony of Jesus.

    That one hour is more devastating than anything in human history.You play down how bad it will be.
     
  19. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Great quote @Willie T Wonderful story ...thanks :)
     
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  20. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    These are the end times. Apostasy abounds.

    Some seems so righteous at the beginning but when you dig down you find Wolfs in sheep's clothing.

    Cults attack cults and Christianity.

    It is a struggle. It is a war. One that will not end until God says enough.

    I've studied more than most but run away from anybody to trying to put the label expert on me.

    The Bible does say God sends rain on good and evil like. That we can learn from evil.

    Bottom line is I can point out the errors of the SDA but I can't force you to understand the dangers in what they teach.

     
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