anti-christ sitting in the rebuilt Jewish 3rd. temple saying he is god.

[Hidden In Him]

I could reveal ten off the top of my head, and several of them could not possibly be met by a Muslim individual arising in the future. Impossible.

P.S. Brakelite, include the specific scriptures you base each criteria on.

 

[CoreIssue]

Actually the emperors of old didn't proclaim themselves as gods during life. They were deified after death. Only Caligula appears to have had the plums to try and pull it off while still alive, and he didn't live for very long after doing so. They proved how mortal he was pretty quick.

Actually they did. This study Roman history where Christians were prep persecuted for not worshiping the Emperor.

Egyptian pharaohs considered living gods.

Just a couple of examples.

 

[brakelite]

I don't take the Vatican to be the temple of God, LoL.

LOL, no. But the 'Christian church' in general is the temple of God, and the papal system is the single largest portion of professing Christians, and the Pope claims leadership status over all Christendom. Thus both by his actions in the above pic, and his proclamations to supreme pontiff, he usurps Christ rightful place as head of the church and thus fully qualifies, in that criteria at least, as being the Antichrist...one who replaces Christ.

 

[brakelite]

Well name them then, at your earliest convenience. It's not as if I'm going somewhere soon and won't be back for a month or something. Reveal away!

P.S. Brakelite, include the specific scriptures you base each criteria on.

I will start another thread. "Criteria of the Antichrist". Look for it in Bible study. BoL's gonna love it.

 

[CoreIssue]

LOL, no. But the 'Christian church' in general is the temple of God, and the papal system is the single largest portion of professing Christians, and the Pope claims leadership status over all Christendom. Thus both by his actions in the above pic, and his proclamations to supreme pontiff, he usurps Christ rightful place as head of the church and thus fully qualifies, in that criteria at least, as being the Antichrist...one who replaces Christ.

The AC does not try to usurp Christ's position as head of the church. He cannot because he is not revealed until the church is raptured.

The temple will be in Jerusalem, which is Israel, not church.

But the Vatican is the perfect place for him to be false prophet. Rome is the headquarters of the Roman Catholic Church. The RCC is pagan Romanism disguise as Christian. It is also the harlot drenched in the blood of the saints is slaughtered.

Rome was also the capital of the Roman Empire and will be the capital of the restored Roman Empire under the AC.

The RCC is not professing Christians. It is a cult.

 

[brakelite]

The AC does not try to usurp Christ's position as head of the church.

Then you misunderstand the true meaning of the word 'antichrist'. According to Strongs #473 the primary meaning of anti as in antichrist is 'instead of' or 'in the room of'. It denotes substitution, and in that sense becomes an opponent of Christ. But any form of counterfeit must be similar to the real. You don't get counterfeit $99 notes. So Islam cannot be antichrist...antichrist must profess to be Christian, but in a form of apostasy.

He cannot because he is not revealed until the church is raptured.

Any rapture theory that takes us from the earth prior to the second coming is mere hypothesis and wishful thinking, and has been disproved many times. Not only does the church witness the antichrist...the church has already witnessed the antichrist but now denies it. Ultimate deception.

 

[Hidden In Him]

for not worshiping the Emperor.

For not honoring the Imperial Cult. Different thing.

The Imperial cult of ancient Rome identified emperors and some members of their families with the divinely sanctioned authority (auctoritas) of the Roman State... A deceased emperor held worthy of the honor could be voted a state divinity (divus, plural divi) by the Senate and elevated as such in an act of apotheosis. The granting of apotheosis served religious, political and moral judgment on Imperial rulers and allowed living Emperors to associate themselves with a well-regarded lineage of Imperial divi, from which unpopular or unworthy predecessors were excluded.
Imperial cult of ancient Rome - Wikipedia

Egyptian pharaohs considered living gods.

Egyptian pharaohs, absolutely. But we were talking about expectations regarding the Antichrist in New Testament times and in the future. The pharaohs didn't play in IMO.

 

[CoreIssue]

Then you misunderstand the true meaning of the word 'antichrist'. According to Strongs #473 the primary meaning of anti as in antichrist is 'instead of' or 'in the room of'. It denotes substitution, and in that sense becomes an opponent of Christ. But any form of counterfeit must be similar to the real. You don't get counterfeit $99 notes. So Islam cannot be antichrist...antichrist must profess to be Christian, but in a form of apostasy.

Any rapture theory that takes us from the earth prior to the second coming is mere hypothesis and wishful thinking, and has been disproved many times. Not only does the church witness the antichrist...the church has already witnessed the antichrist but now denies it. Ultimate deception.

I do not misunderstand the meaning of antichrist. I've known its meaning for decades.

When have I ever gave any claim Islam was the antichrist? Never!

No, the rapture is not hypothesis and wishful thinking, it is biblical fact.

Nothing in the Bible requires antichrist to claim to be a Christian. He claims to be God.

Disproven? Never.

The church has never seen the antichrist because he has not been revealed yet. And until fairly recent history has not existed.

Where error resides is in your beliefs, such as investigative judgment when the fact is God has known who will be saved and who will go to hell before the earth was created.

Or your there will be a time when there is no life on the earth when the Bible shows life on the earth all the way up until God destroys the current heavens and earth.

 

[CoreIssue]

For not honoring the Imperial Cult. Different thing.

The Imperial cult of ancient Rome identified emperors and some members of their families with the divinely sanctioned authority (auctoritas) of the Roman State... A deceased emperor held worthy of the honor could be voted a state divinity (divus, plural divi) by the Senate and elevated as such in an act of apotheosis. The granting of apotheosis served religious, political and moral judgment on Imperial rulers and allowed living Emperors to associate themselves with a well-regarded lineage of Imperial divi, from which unpopular or unworthy predecessors were excluded.
Imperial cult of ancient Rome - Wikipedia


Egyptian pharaohs, absolutely. But we were talking about expectations regarding the Antichrist in New Testament times and in the future. The pharaohs didn't play in IMO.

I agree we are talking about the future. The Bible makes it clear it will be a death penalty to not worship the AC as God.

 

[Hidden In Him]

But the 'Christian church' in general is the temple of God, and the papal system is the single largest portion of professing Christians, and the Pope claims leadership status over all Christendom. Thus both by his actions in the above pic, and his proclamations to supreme pontiff, he usurps Christ rightful place as head of the church and thus fully qualifies, in that criteria at least, as being the Antichrist...one who replaces Christ.

I know your argument : ) I was saying the context is the Antichrist taking his seat in the temple, and whereas people like yourself and Dave L spiritualize the temple in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 to be the church, I don't think the argument holds weight. Again, I don't see any way Matthew 24 would have been taken by the disciples as a great big spiritualization. He started by talking about the literal temple, and telling them that not one stone would be left one upon another, of "this place," while they were standing IN the literal temple in Jerusalem. Then a few verses later he tells them that when they SAW the abomination that causes desolation standing in the Holy Place, they were to take flight. There is no way in my mind that Jesus would have switched from talking about the literal temple to talking about some spiritual temple within the course of just a few verses, unless He was being outright deceptive to them.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I will start another thread. "Criteria of the Antichrist". Look for it in Bible study. BoL's gonna love it.

I'm sure he will. Love, love, love.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Then you misunderstand the true meaning of the word 'antichrist'. According to Strongs #473 the primary meaning of anti as in antichrist is 'instead of' or 'in the room of'. It denotes substitution... So Islam cannot be antichrist...antichrist must profess to be Christian, but in a form of apostasy.

It's an assumption, Brakelite. "Anti" generally just means "opposed to," and "Christo" meant "anointed," as in anointed to be king. At its base, the term simply means one who is anointed to be king in opposition to the true Christ; hence, a world ruler who fights against God and tries to set up a kingdom in opposition to God.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I agree we are talking about the future. The Bible makes it clear it will be a death penalty to not worship the AC as God.

I agree it will border on apotheosis; something like what the media did with Obama, only even worse, LoL.

 

[brakelite]

I know your argument : ) I was saying the context is the Antichrist taking his seat in the temple, and whereas people like yourself and Dave L spiritualize the temple in 2 Thessalonians 2:4 to be the church, I don't think the argument holds weight. Again, I don't see any way Matthew 24 would have been taken by the disciples as a great big spiritualization. He started by talking about the literal temple, and telling them that not one stone would be left one upon another, of "this place," while they were standing IN the literal temple in Jerusalem. Then a few verses later he tells them that when they SAW the abomination that causes desolation standing in the Holy Place, they were to take flight. There is no way in my mind that Jesus would have switched from talking about the literal temple to talking about some spiritual temple within the course of just a few verses, unless He was being outright deceptive to them.

I see it as literal in the first century, whilst the literal temple was still standing. I also see a double fulfilment of the prophecy in these last days as Papal (spiritual aka Babylon the Great) Rome and her armies surrounding spiritual Israel. The same concept can be followed in identifying the 7 heads of the beast in Revelation. While each head on the beast represents a kingdom, they had previously been represented by individual beasts in previous prophecies. In the OT literal local powers...Babylon, Media/Persia, Greece, Rome. In the NT global spiritual powers...Catholicism (first beast Revel.13) apostate Protestantism (second beast Revel. 13), Atheism (beast from bottomless pit Revelation 11:7). There are reasons for such an interpretation, too long to introduce here, but therein is the summary of my perspective.
7 powers, seven beasts, seven heads.

 

[brakelite]

It's an assumption, Brakelite. "Anti" generally just means "opposed to," and "Christo" meant "anointed," as in anointed to be king. At its base, the term simply means one who is anointed to be king in opposition to the true Christ; hence, a world ruler who fights against God and tries to set up a kingdom in opposition to God.

500 ἀντίχριστος antichristos an-tee’-khris-tos
from 473 and 5547; n m; TDNT-9:493,1322; {See TDNT 850}
AV-antichrist 5; 5
1) the adversary of the Messiah
For Synonyms see entry 5890

473 ἀντί anti an-tee’
a primary particle; prep; TDNT-1:372,61; {See TDNT 75}
AV-for 15, because + 3639 4, for … cause 1, therefore + 3639 1, in the room of 1; 22
1) over against, opposite to, before
2) for, instead of, in place of (something)
2a) instead of
2b) for
2c) for that, because
2d) wherefore, for this cause

 

[Trekson]

It makes no sense at all.

The EU is the 10 toes. They are all former parts of the Eastern Roman Empire. The waist and hips of the statue of Daniel broke down into two legs, which the Roman Empire did. Then they broke down into the 10 toes, which is history.

The description of the AC is the same as the historical facts concerning Alexander the great. Plus the fact that had little horn comes out of the Greece beast.

Alexander the great consolidate all the Greek independent city states into his empire. He will consolidate the EU countries into his new empire.

The harlot in revelations is the city of Rome and the Roman Catholic Church. Which I believe will produce the false prophet.

The EU is not part of the eastern empire, they are part of the western empire. I guess that depends on which description of the a/c you are referring. Personally, I believe America will become the harlot of Rev. 17

 

[Dave L]

And here you go with replacement theology again.

Israel as a nation has already returned. It will return as covenant nation at the second coming.

Genetically speaking, Jews remain Jews.

They will be gathered from the nations at the second coming. They will be restored to their proper tribe. The temple will be cleansed and properly rebuilt after the second coming. The new covenant to the houses of Judah and Israel will be instituted. Israel and Judah will reunite into one nation.

It's all in the Bible.

Blood does not make one a Jew. Technically, they were all born gentiles until circumcised on the 8th day. If not circumcised they were broken off and remained gentiles.

 

[CoreIssue]

The EU is not part of the eastern empire, they are part of the western empire. I guess that depends on which description of the a/c you are referring. Personally, I believe America will become the harlot of Rev. 17

Oooops. My head malfunctioned. West, not east.

America is a western island that will oppose the AC at Mid-Trib.

 

[Hidden In Him]

I see it as literal in the first century, whilst the literal temple was still standing.

But the prophecies were not fulfilled literally during New Testament times. By "the abomination that causes desolation," the Jews understood some form of pagan idol would be set up in the Holy Place, much like the statute of Zeus Caligula was building for this purpose.

Forces from him shall appear and profane the temple and fortress, and shall take away the continual burnt offering. And they shall set up the abomination that makes desolate. (Daniel 11:31 RSV-CE)
And from the time that the continual burnt offering is taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate is set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (Daniel 12:11 RSV-CE)

The Book of Revelations likewise confirmed this would be an idol of some sort:

14 And deceive them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. (Revelation 13:14-15).

They were also expecting a literal Antichrist who would follow in the footsteps of Antiochus Epiphanes and forbid the observance of Jewish law on threat of death (Daniel 7:25). None of these things happened. The Romans simply leveled the place. This is precisely my problem with your position and anyone's position when they spiritualize prophecy away as if the literal has been fulfilled when it has not except by an abuse of the texts in question.

500 ἀντίχριστος antichristos an-tee’-khris-tos
from 473 and 5547; n m; TDNT-9:493,1322; {See TDNT 850}
AV-antichrist 5; 5
1) the adversary of the Messiah
For Synonyms see entry 5890

473 ἀντί anti an-tee’
a primary particle; prep; TDNT-1:372,61; {See TDNT 75}
AV-for 15, because + 3639 4, for … cause 1, therefore + 3639 1, in the room of 1; 22
1) over against, opposite to, before
2) for, instead of, in place of (something)
2a) instead of
2b) for
2c) for that, because
2d) wherefore, for this cause

LoL. If I needed to "see the TDNT" I would. I own it. Brakelite I'm very familiar with how ἀντί is used, both in cognate verbs and as a stand alone. The debate is how one interprets the etymology, i.e. of "one anointed in opposition to."

 

[brakelite]

They were also expecting a literal Antichrist who would follow in the footsteps of Antiochus Epiphanes and forbid the observance of Jewish law on threat of death (Daniel 7:25). None of these things happened. The Romans simply leveled the place. This is precisely my problem with your position and anyone's position when they spiritualize prophecy away as if the literal has been fulfilled when it has not except by an abuse of the texts in question.

Actually, while I am a little hazy on the details right now, the view of historicists is that the abomination of desolation was indeed literally fulfilled by the Romans themselves. While the temple itself may not have been the exact spot of the abomination, the holy grounds in those days extended beyond the actual temple precincts, to areas where the idolatrous Roman standards were planted. Those standards proclaimed gods given glory for the desolations that levelled the temple. To my mind that is a fairly literal fulfilment. Even though it may not have been exactly the way the Jews expected it to be. I suspect there is going to be a great deal of stuff happening in the future none of us suspected even possible, let alone likely.