Expose on Mormonism.

[Prayer Warrior]

The fact is ..he posted his anti mormon post in his OP and then TEGGED Jane Doe so it would show up in her ALERT'S

In anyones book...that is making it personal.

I am finding more and more that many on this "christian" Site fit right in here with their attitudes....still with no clue as to the Father heart of God.

Luke 9:49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
.... his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
55 But He turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. "

And...more and more I am finding that I do not fit in on this Site.

2 Corinthians 3:
6 "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life."

I get no joy reading post after post on here that does nothing but take the letter of the word and beat people over the head with it.
It seems that is the only thing their bibles are used for ...to "win my argument' and 'beat someone else on the head with it'...nag at anyone who does not fit in to 'my' way of thinking. The scripture quoted above is very apt.

I respect your views on this, but I see it differently. JaneDoe had first created a thread to state her Mormon beliefs. I saw JustByFaith's thread as a followup to her thread, and he invited her to participate. I'm concerned that you seem to see this as an attack on her personally. Like I said before, I think his posts have been civil, in fact, some of the most civil posts I've read in a debate-type thread.

Personally, I hope you don't leave CF. I've really enjoyed getting to know you.

 

[Helen]

Why? I see no benefit to that consuming my time. And further, I am already aware not every single person in ANY congregation believes the exact same things regarding all their "doctrine". Isn't it an individuals own choice to be involved in the place of worship they choose? Are Catholics going to run from their Churches because of scandals and coverups among some Priests? If an individual is content with believing and praising the Lord in their house of prayer...

It is refreshing to see someone here who believes that "before our own master we stand or fall"..we don't have to give account for what we believe to every legalist person who asks, unless moved by His Spirit to do so.

I am 100% convinced that God has His people in every walk of life, and every gathering , church, religion, or cult.
There are always seekers...and always those who's hearts are after his Heart.
I am sure many bible bashing legalist will be shocked to see just who is in and who is out...when the Kingdom comes.

It is easy to see who just quotes scripture and and has the word of the Lord in their hand..and who quotes scripture and has the word and sees the heart of God.

" The letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life. "

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Why? I see no benefit to that consuming my time. And further, I am already aware not every single person in ANY congregation believes the exact same things regarding all their "doctrine". Isn't it an individuals own choice to be involved in the place of worship they choose? Are Catholics going to run from their Churches because of scandals and coverups among some Priests? If an individual is content with believing and praising the Lord in their house of prayer...
And hoochie choochie is going on behind closed doors....WHO is accountable for that?

Remember Jesus was not thrilled with the Pharisees, and their uppity, hypocritical, etc. behavior....He did not tell anyone to depart the Church...What Jesus said was; do as they say, not as they do.

Glory to God,
Taken

It's okay if you don't want to look into Mormon beliefs beyond their Statement of Faith. But by posting that Statement, you seemed to be promoting their beliefs or saying that you don't have a problem with them. So, this confused me.

There's a difference between Christians having differing opinions about doctrines clearly presented in the Bible and cults' doctrines going way outside the Bible. IOW, they are not based on the Bible AT ALL. This is the problem I have with Mormonism.
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[amadeus]

brakelite said: ↑
Make all the sense in the world of you are honest. What is the wages of sin? Death yes? So death is the eternal punishment yes? How then can someone who is dead be aware they are being punished?

Amen!

"For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." Ecc 9:5

Seems obvious to me, that those who are still suffering in those fires, aren't dead. Yet. But we all know what happens don't we?
Malachi 4:1 ¶ For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
Isa 1:28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.
Mt 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

Amen!

Very true. But it is doubtful that the doctrines of Mormonism will be promoted as good wine by Babylon. The cup in her hand is of a far more deceptive danger because already almost the entire Protestant world is partaking of her cup. It won't be long before the rest of the world follow suit.

I have seen exceptions, I believe, in individuals, but not in any organized group [denomination or church or whatever] of my personal experience. The rest of them are often quite unaware of the need to come out of confusion [Babel or Babylon] or they are deluded. None of us can come out of our own power, but we must recognize the need to call on God and ask Him for help in everything that we do.

I think @amadeus was saying the opposite. The victors decide on what history is presented, and always in their favour. And we all know the first casualty of war don't we.

Correct! Give God the glory and allow Him to always leads in our walk.

 

[CoreIssue]

Not three levels, but three destinations. There are an almost infinite number of 'levels' depending on the progression of the Saint as they aspire to be like God.

But I do think that you were almost onto something in regards to the marriage topic. Mortal marriages are not automatically 'upgraded' to a Celestial Marriage without the desire of the couple to spend eternity together, make a covenant saying so in front of a Temple priest and then remain faithful to that covenant/pledge. This is done in a sealed marriage in the Temple to the best of my knowledge. This is what a sealed marriage is to the best of my knowledge.

Whether mortal marriages are absolved due to disinterest in other Kingdom destinations, I do not know? I assume they do continue in those Kingdoms as well? Provided people desire so. And the Telestial Kingdom may be the highest that an unmarried female can achieve. Again, not certain of this.

But is this really what you are concerned about?? The LDS's marriage practices in the afterlife? You have to know that polygamy originated in the OT right?

I'm just going by Mormon theology. Each of the three destinations contains Mormons of defined levels, trying to put it into your terms.

There is no automatic upgrade of marriage. Any couple can go down to the justice of the peace, etc., and be married in earthly legal terms.

For that same couple to have a celestial marriage they have to go to the temple.

As well, a Mormon male can do a celestial marriage with a long dead Mormon woman, without her consent.

I'm just giving information to educate people on the mindset of Mormonism. If I remember correctly Joseph Smith had 50 earthly wives and I have no idea how many celestial.

Dissolving a mortar marriage is a legal issue the LDS do not control.

Actually polygamy began pre-flood and was dominant in pagan OT countries. Israel did it over the objections of God. As well there were concubines, unmarried but having sex with their Master.

The more you explore more Mormon theology the more you see how this all ties together.

It takes a lot of women produce enough babies to popularly a planet.

I'm just going by Mormon theology. Each of the three destinations contains Mormons of defined levels, trying to put it into your terms.

There is no automatic upgrade of marriage. Any couple can go down to the justice of the peace, etc., and be married in earthly legal terms.

For that same couple to have a celestial marriage they have to go to the temple.

As well, a Mormon male can do a celestial marriage with a long dead Mormon woman, without her consent.

I'm just giving information to educate people on the mindset of Mormonism. If I remember correctly Joseph Smith had 50 earthly wives and I have no idea how many celestial.

Dissolving a mortar marriage is a legal issue the LDS do not control.

Actually polygamy began pre-flood and was dominant in pagan OT countries. Israel did it over the objections of God. As well there were concubines, unmarried but having sex with their Master.

The more you explore more Mormon theology the more you see how this all ties together.

//www.huffingtonpost.com/mette-ivie-harrison/do-mormons-believe-in-hell_b_9140202.html

 

[amadeus]

I'm suggesting that you educate yourself on what Mormons actually believe. I've given you some quotes from their own sources to consider.

You should know that it is physically impossible to educate ourselves in the beliefs of everyone of the 40,000 plus groups with members calling themselves Christians to be certain we will not follow them into anyone else's ditch. Our solution must be to keep our eyes of the Lord for ourselves.

Many people unfortunately will follow religious leaders blindly. We can pray for them and if they open the door we may assist them, but we don't need to study all of their doctrines to prove or disprove them. Just study to be approved of God and will He not lead us the right Way?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

All what things? All that, according to God, we need!

 

[CoreIssue]

So John 3:16 is not true? God did not send His only begotten Son into the world? But some spirit equal in all respects to two other spirits pretending to be a son?

Make all the sense in the world of you are honest. What is the wages of sin? Death yes? So death is the eternal punishment yes? How then can someone who is dead be aware they are being punished? How can someone completely separated from the only source of life, still be alive? When is it that sinners receive the gift of eternal life instead of dying as the scriptures tell us?

John 3:16 New International Version (NIV)
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Absolutely true. But also absolutely true that is Jesus Christ, the man, that God begot.

But God did not beget the spirit in Jesus, which was God.

You believe the Archangel Michael, a created being, became Jesus.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

You should know that it is physically impossible to educate ourselves in the beliefs of everyone of the 40,000 plus groups with members calling themselves Christians to be certain we will not follow them into anyone else's ditch. Our solution must be to keep our eyes of the Lord for ourselves.

Many people unfortunately will follow religious leaders blindly. We can pray for them and if they open the door we may assist them, but we don't need to study all of their doctrines to prove or disprove them. Just study to be approved of God and will He not lead us the right Way?

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." Matt 6:33

All what things? All that, according to God, we need!

Hi, I agree with you that we should spend the bulk of our time in the Bible; however, I think it's important for Christians to know which groups have basic doctrines that fall well outside the parameters of the Bible.

Edit: I really don't expect anyone to know about all of the cults that exist, but this thread is about Mormonism, so if we post here, I think it's important to have a cursory knowledge of the subject.

 

[Helen]

I think it's important for Christians to know which groups have basic doctrines that fall well outside the parameters of the Bible.

Why!!

What a waste of time. There are hundreds of them!

When people are trained to spot fake diamonds, and when people are trained to spot fake money. They do not soak their minds and train their eyes into spotting the fakes...they study and train their eyes heavily To Know The True.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Why!!

What a waste of time. There are hundreds of them!

When people are trained to spot fake diamonds, and when people are trained to spot fake money. They do not soak their minds and train their eyes into spotting the fakes...they study and train their eyes heavily To Know The True.

True, there are many, but Mormonism is a BIG one and very prominent in this country. Of course, I believe it's important to know Bible TRUTH more than anything! I think I've demonstrated that belief in many posts throughout this forum.

 

[lforrest]

Why!!

What a waste of time. There are hundreds of them!

When people are trained to spot fake diamonds, and when people are trained to spot fake money. They do not soak their minds and train their eyes into spotting the fakes...they study and train their eyes heavily To Know The True.

I disagree. This approach leaves no room for correction, unless you admit to know nothing for sure.

What did Einstein say, "No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong."

 

[Taken]

It's okay if you don't want to look into Mormon beliefs beyond their Statement of Faith.

Agree.

But by posting that Statement, you seemed to be promoting their beliefs or saying that you don't have a problem with them. So, this is confused me.

I have not made one comment to promote Mormonism.

What I do not have a problem with is Individuals choosing WHO and WHERE they choose to worship their WHO.

I had no clue what church Jane_Doe is or was or is not or was not associated with. You addressing her specifically, gives me an idea she may associate with the Mormons.

That doesn't make one iota of difference to me. I have had exchanges with Jane and not once did I remotely think..."yikes...stop the presses, something really weird here is going on here".

There's a difference between Christians having differing opinions about doctrines clearly presented in the Bible and cults' doctrines going way outside the Bible. IOW, they are not based on the Bible AT ALL. This is the problem I have with Mormonism.
.

Hey, I don't believe alot of what Catholics say and do, and think it is weird. But I don't have ring up every Catholic I know, and say hey, your religion is a Cult, You should read what some "third party" is exposing about your cult religion. That is too much. I go round and round with a Catholic on this forum. It is his gig to introduce Catholicism on every spoonful he wants to feed everyone...and have a hissy when others spit it out. Lol Doesn't bother me, for someone to push their beliefs. But that is not what I saw Jane doing. And whether or not you like or agree with Mormonism, Jane was very adament what you were trying to fed her, was not things she believes.

Jesus said spread His Word. If you do not think His Word is contained within the Mormon Doctrine, then go spread what you think IS His Word.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[amadeus]

Hi, I agree with you that we should spend the bulk of our time in the Bible; however, I think it's important for Christians to know which groups have basic doctrines that fall well outside the parameters of the Bible.

It is not a bad thing to familiarize yourself, but does everyone have the time or the inclination or the need to do so? There are too many who do not even know what their own group is supposed to believe. First things first! Of course some do not even know what should come first [Matt 6:33].

Edit: I really don't expect anyone to know about all of the cults that exist, but this thread is about Mormonism, so if we post here, I think it's important to have a cursory knowledge of the subject.

A great many years ago before meeting my wife, I visited my older brother who in the army stationed in Georgia. He was an avid Mormon married to a woman who had always been a Mormon. I only stayed with them a few days, but they brought in the missionaries to supplement their own efforts to proselytize me. My brother gave me a very nice soft leather bound Book of Mormon which I eventually read completely. I set it aside well before my marriage in 1972, but I had never become a Mormon. I still have that book which I have used for reference although I cannot recall the last time I took it off the shelf as no solicitors of any kind are to knock on the doors of our little apartment complex. This means no more Mormon or JW missionaries.

I had many young Mormons visit me over the years. Once I was a believing practicing Christian [from 1976] I always invited them in the house and had very good enjoyable discussions with them. I let them give me their spiel, but then they were always very receptive to me when I was allowed to tell them where I was in God. But the door was opened by them. I never kicked the door down. Hopefully some of them carried away something worthwhile, but that is God's business. He knows.

I know a little, but I do not consider it important to study what they or others are doing unless it somehow directly already has involved me. I study the scripture and talk to God every day. Sometimes when opportunity appears, I talk to people about God. I don't need to know what they believe, but sometimes they will tell me. I am not my own director/leader. At least I am not supposed to be...

 

[Prayer Warrior]

It is not a bad thing to familiarize yourself, but does everyone have the time or the inclination or the need to do so? There are too many who do not even know what their own group is supposed to believe. First things first! Of course some do not even know what should come first [Matt 6:33].


A great many years ago before meeting my wife, I visited my older brother who in the army stationed in Georgia. He was an avid Mormon married to a woman who had always been a Mormon. I only stayed with them a few days, but they brought in the missionaries to supplement their own efforts to proselytize me. My brother gave me a very nice soft leather bound Book of Mormon which I eventually read completely. I set it aside well before my marriage in 1972, but I had never become a Mormon. I still have that book which I have used for reference although I cannot recall the last time I took it off the shelf as no solicitors of any kind are to knock on the doors of our little apartment complex. This means no more Mormon or JW missionaries.

I had many young Mormons visit me over the years. Once I was a believing practicing Christian [from 1976] I always invited them in the house and had very good enjoyable discussions with them. I let them give me their spiel, but then they were always very receptive to me when I was allowed to tell them where I was in God. But the door was opened by them. I never kicked the door down. Hopefully some of them carried away something worthwhile, but that is God's business. He knows.

I know a little, but I do not consider it important to study what they or others are doing unless it somehow directly already has involved me. I study the scripture and talk to God every day. Sometimes when opportunity appears, I talk to people about God. I don't need to know what they believe, but sometimes they will tell me. I am not my own director/leader. At least I am not supposed to be...

Okay, I understand, but this thread is an expose of Mormonism. So, why would anyone object to exposing unbiblical Mormon doctrine in this thread?

 

[amadeus]

I disagree. This approach leaves no room for correction, unless you admit to know nothing for sure.

What did Einstein say, "No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong."

Einstein was a scientist working in his field and I would guess that he knew how to do it. What is our work as believers in Christ?

"Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." John 6:28-29

We may indeed be led to read or study the beliefs of particular sects, but is that work of each and every believer in Christ? Are we not to be different parts of the Body of Christ with different functions according to our calling and according to the lead of the Holy Spirit?

 

[Harvest 1874]

You don't see the importance of exposing belief systems that are unbiblical? Many Mormon doctrines are contrary to Bible truth. It is a cult. I have relatives who are Mormon, so I looked into their beliefs years ago and was shocked by what they REALLY believe.

I understand people on this forum wanting to support Jane, but I pray that no one is drawn into Mormonism based on anything said in this thread that's in favor of their beliefs. I really do!

We never commended the system of faith for which she is associated, we only spoke of her professed faith in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

We never commended the system of faith for which she is associated, we only spoke of her professed faith in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I only said that it seemed like Taken was, not everyone.

 

[amadeus]

Okay, I understand, but this thread is an expose of Mormonism. So, why would anyone object to exposing unbiblical Mormon doctrine in this thread?

So then if you are so inclined and/or led by God to do so take up a single point of disagreement and discuss according to scriptures and/or the Book of Mormon, but do not presume that this one confessed Mormon is against you at every step. Do not try to force anyone to give answers to your questions. She offered to visit via PM with any really interested. Did anyone take her up on that? I don't know and it is certainly not my business.

Discussing points of disagreement is one thing. Forcing yourself on a person is quite another. A lot of pressure was applied here. How right was that.. even if the Mormon had nothing at all that was good? Remember that in the beginning this thread was directed at one person with the sole purpose apparently of exposing HER and working under the presumption that as the Mormon Church went that was necessarily always the way that she went.

 

[Helen]

I disagree. This approach leaves no room for correction, unless you admit to know nothing for sure.

What did Einstein say, "No amount of experimentation can ever prove me right; a single experiment can prove me wrong."

Well I guess it all comes down to -what spirit is the correction given?
We see Phillip, he came to the Ethiopian by the Spirit...and he did not berate him with a load of scriptures , proving him wrong, but drew along side and asked him if he wanted to know more...

"the Ethiopian, who had the charge of all her (Queen's) treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship, 28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? "

I see that

changed my mind..what's the point..
Why am I bothering...I have been proved to be on a 'different page' than all the negative eager bible bashers who see everyone wrong who doesn't believe things just like them.

This Site used to have a good balance of positive people as well as the negative who see something wrong in everyone else's posts. So many 'heart' people like Aspen , Pia, Amadeus , Nancy, Willie, Frank Phillip, and others have gone quieter or just plain quit. When it comes down to 'the God of the mind or the God of the heart' ...I will line up with the heart people.

Let the ones who obviously 'know everything' have it...
They are much more interested on lifting up their bible than lifting up the Lord in all His glory.

I think it is time for me to bow out..and step back. This site is no longer a fun or positive place to be.

Bless you all.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

So then if you are so inclined and/or led by God to do so take up a single point of disagreement and discuss according to scriptures and/or the Book of Mormon, but do not presume that this one confessed Mormon is against you at every step. Do not try to force anyone to give answers to your questions. She offered to visit via PM with any really interested. Did anyone take her up on that? I don't know and it is certainly not my business.

Discussing points of disagreement is one thing. Forcing yourself on a person is quite another. A lot of pressure was applied here. How right was that.. even if the Mormon had nothing at all that was good? Remember that in the beginning this thread was directed at one person with the sole purpose apparently of exposing HER and working under the presumption that as the Mormon Church went that was necessarily always the way that she went.

I respect you and your views. Here's my quote to Helen that I think applies to what your saying as well.

I respect your views on this, but I see it differently. JaneDoe had first created a thread to state her Mormon beliefs. I saw JustByFaith's thread as a followup to her thread, and he invited her to participate. I'm concerned that you seem to see this as an attack on her personally. Like I said before, I think his posts have been civil, in fact, some of the most civil posts I've read in a debate-type thread.
​

I'm very concerned that some of you don't seem to see the dangers of cults. Actually, I don't know what to say. Some who are accusing the OP of being uncivil are not showing all that much civility to me and my views.
.