Expose on Mormonism.
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I have seen this post and many like it over the years.
If you would like to learn something, I'm happy to clarify anything.
If you have concerns about my faith, it's much better to just ask me about it rather than assume things / third-person info.
If you're not interested in learning, then conversing doesn't have much point.
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Likewise...
If you are there from the perspective of just wanting to teach me about your religion; but are unwilling to learn the whole of the information that is presented on the website that I have referred you to, then conversing doesn't have much of a point from my perspective either.
If you are willing to read the information and discuss it with me then I would be happy to hear what your perspective is on the information that is presented.
But I am not going to copy and paste it here in this thread. The information is clearly presented at its own website.
I would suggest reading the information and then addressing anything that you consider might be a threat to my believing in your religion.
@justbyfaith , I have seen this website and read through it MANY times (it's few truths, abundant logical fallacies & falsehoods, etc), along with hundreds of it's like. There is nothing new on this website I have not literally seen hundreds of times. Also, it is impossible for you or any website you pull up to teach me about I believe because what I believe doesn't come from you or a website. Rather, my faith is centered in Christ.
If you want to learn more about what I believe, or hear about my salvation in Christ (cause yes, I am saved), I'm happy to share. If you're worried about my salvation, feel free to ask. If you want me to go through and straighten out truth from fiction, I can (there's a ton of fiction on this particular site). But if you want to talk faith, I'd rather skip that junk and just talk about Christ and what I DO believe.
If you're not interested in what I believe, that's totally cool too. I'm not here to push anything, I was just responding to this because you specifically flagged me over.
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You are here then as a reference librarian? We could go to the library or to google and find things, certainly, if that was our purpose, but is that why we have come to a Christian forum in the first place? Why not just tell a person to read the Bible for himself and 'don't bother me until you come to a question' ?
Everyone who is a real believer in anything stands on what they believe. Just telling a person you believe he is wrong is not likely to spur him to look at a reference he did not ask you to provide:
"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2
(I've posted this before, but it's worth repeating)
One of the (many) reasons I dislike online proselytizing on forums & refuse to participate in such is because it's very driven stereotypes & egos, and not by real love & seeing that person. To often I've seen the following scenario happen: Bob hears Mike is group X and Bob immediately seeks to 'rescue' the X-er because Bob 'knows' X-ers believe all of these crazy wrong things and Bob needs to 'rescue' the 'poor trapped' X'er that have never heard the 'truth'.
You notice how much of the above was actually about Mike? None of it. All of it was about the stereotypes in Bob's head: that the X'er believed so-and-so, that needs X'er rescuing, that the X'er is trapped, and the X'er doesn't know any better. No where in here is anything actually about Mike. Bob hasn't even really seen Mike, let alone experienced the individual love Christ holds for Mike. And the more and more Bob tries to force his blind proselytizing of Mike, the more and more that lack of love is apparent and Mike more actively resents Bob and Bob's message.
I've seen the type of blind proselytizing TO and BY so many different people of different groups. Atheists, Baptists, Catholics, Orthodox, Wiccans, Scientists, political groups, Muslims, LDS, Calvinists, Mega-church goers, evolutionists, etc. And it's really come to grate on my nerves.
Rather than blind proselytizing, let us actually SEE each other as INDIVIDUALS. Ask questions and LISTEN to the answers. Come to better understand and love each other. If along the way someone grows closer to Truth, all the better. But we cannot control such an action nor should be try to. We each can only better see and love individuals in our lives.
One of the (many) reasons I dislike online proselytizing on forums & refuse to participate in such is because it's very driven stereotypes & egos, and not by real love & seeing that person. To often I've seen the following scenario happen: Bob hears Mike is group X and Bob immediately seeks to 'rescue' the X-er because Bob 'knows' X-ers believe all of these crazy wrong things and Bob needs to 'rescue' the 'poor trapped' X'er that have never heard the 'truth'.
You notice how much of the above was actually about Mike? None of it. All of it was about the stereotypes in Bob's head: that the X'er believed so-and-so, that needs X'er rescuing, that the X'er is trapped, and the X'er doesn't know any better. No where in here is anything actually about Mike. Bob hasn't even really seen Mike, let alone experienced the individual love Christ holds for Mike. And the more and more Bob tries to force his blind proselytizing of Mike, the more and more that lack of love is apparent and Mike more actively resents Bob and Bob's message.
I've seen the type of blind proselytizing TO and BY so many different people of different groups. Atheists, Baptists, Catholics, Orthodox, Wiccans, Scientists, political groups, Muslims, LDS, Calvinists, Mega-church goers, evolutionists, etc. And it's really come to grate on my nerves.
Rather than blind proselytizing, let us actually SEE each other as INDIVIDUALS. Ask questions and LISTEN to the answers. Come to better understand and love each other. If along the way someone grows closer to Truth, all the better. But we cannot control such an action nor should be try to. We each can only better see and love individuals in our lives.
bbyrd009
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If someone is about to walk off the side of a cliff; and you are trying to stop them from killing themselves: are you going to take the time to find out about what is their favorite thing for breakfast? I think not.
If you can stop them from dying eternally, you will have all of eternity to learn about what they love to eat for breakfast; and every other minute detail about who they are as people, as you fellowship with them for that they are in the fold of Christ.
So, @Jane_Doe22 , while you may be irritated by this mentality, I think that in the long run you are going to have to realize that sometimes priority is a factor as concerning what a person is going to be saying to you as a Mormon.
So you are not willing to read the information, I get that.
It certainly convinced me of the truth that Joseph Smith was a false prophet and I can see why, as a Mormon, you would not want to be convinced of the same. I am certain that you treasure your beliefs.
But if there is any validity to what is presented on the website, then please consider that 1 Peter 3:15 mandates you even as a Mormon to treat this material in an apologetic fashion; you are called upon to defend your faith against the attacks of the enemy!
Love in Christ,
justbyfaith.
If you can stop them from dying eternally, you will have all of eternity to learn about what they love to eat for breakfast; and every other minute detail about who they are as people, as you fellowship with them for that they are in the fold of Christ.
So, @Jane_Doe22 , while you may be irritated by this mentality, I think that in the long run you are going to have to realize that sometimes priority is a factor as concerning what a person is going to be saying to you as a Mormon.
So you are not willing to read the information, I get that.
It certainly convinced me of the truth that Joseph Smith was a false prophet and I can see why, as a Mormon, you would not want to be convinced of the same. I am certain that you treasure your beliefs.
But if there is any validity to what is presented on the website, then please consider that 1 Peter 3:15 mandates you even as a Mormon to treat this material in an apologetic fashion; you are called upon to defend your faith against the attacks of the enemy!
Love in Christ,
justbyfaith.
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@justbyfaith, I am saved by faith, in the blood of the lamb. Jesus Christ is my Savior and Lord. These are facts.
If you want to have me explain my love of Christ to you I can. If you want me to go explain the false information on that website to you, I can. If you just want to continue blindly believing that website and other imaginary cliffs, you can, it has zero effect on me. That's all your choice. (Edit- I see you requested this. That response will be my next post).
I'm going to keep celebrating my Savior, the very Son of God.
I hate to be blunt with you; but the Jesus that you claim as your Saviour and Lord is not the same Jesus as the Jesus that I read about in the Bible...see 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 (kjv).
You need to consider that within Mormonism, the definitions of the terms that we use as Christians are different definitions in Mormonism than the definitions that real Christians have for those terms. Now if you can say the same things that you say as a Mormon, and apply the definitions that normal Christianity applies to the terms that you use, then you might even be a real Christian.
However, I believe that you are indoctrinated as to what these terms mean; and therefore there is a certain language barrier when it comes to any discussion we might have. So I don't know how to help you except to refer you to websites that are specifically set apart for dealing with Mormonism.
Or, maybe it will help you, since you are an interfaith nerd, to learn what the Christian definitions are for the terms that you use as a Mormon and then to abide by those definitions when you make your statements as a Mormon. If you do this, you may even find yourself having crossed over from death into life!
However, I believe that you are indoctrinated as to what these terms mean; and therefore there is a certain language barrier when it comes to any discussion we might have. So I don't know how to help you except to refer you to websites that are specifically set apart for dealing with Mormonism.
Or, maybe it will help you, since you are an interfaith nerd, to learn what the Christian definitions are for the terms that you use as a Mormon and then to abide by those definitions when you make your statements as a Mormon. If you do this, you may even find yourself having crossed over from death into life!
Ok, I'm going to be very blunt on my assessment of this website here. If you want me to further elaborate on any point, feel free to ask.
This website is broken down into several segments.
- Preface - starts out with false and harmful adversarial mindset.
- Introduction - continues with that mindset. Ignore foundation of faith (Christ) to set men on pedestals and quote non-authoritative statements which really don't matter, building up a strawman rather than addressing actual beliefs.
- 1. Name of the Church - completely ignores the revelatory components of everything being talked about.
- 2. The Bible - cites junk source, completely misrepresents LDS theology here, fights the strawman, gives false apologetics approach
I am well aware of the way different Christian groups use words and the concepts behind them. Hence while I'm talking a generic Christian audience I always use generic words which are the same across all groups. If there's a concept that needs to be gone further into, I indicate that as well. These are just my normal behaviors and I would consider anything less to not be honest. If you want me to elaborate on any concept, feel free to ask.
I love the Bible as well, and have rea every page within multiple times and prize it. And yes, therein is the Christ I am talking about. The Son of God, who's one with the Father. Who's virgin birth we celebrate this time of year. The Alpha and Omega, the Only Begotten. The Perfect lamb. The creator who made this world, who entered mortal life humbly as a baby in a manger. He endured all hardships on this earth, things like being hungry, thirsty, persecuted, hurt, etc. He lived a perfect life, and then took upon Himself the entire world's sins, suffered and died for them. He did this so that we each may be saved, and there is no other way but through Him. He rose from death on the day. He then ascended to heaven and will return again, the victorious king.
^That is the Truth of what I believe. Christ is my Savior and king.
(continuing, addressing points in a different order to hit the most important ones first)
All quotes from this site (the Jesus Christ page): 11. Jesus Christ - Exposé of Mormonism - Study Resources
Note: there is not a single actual doctrinal LDS source cited on this page. Every single quote comes non-doctrinal sources that have major issues with them and are not studied in LDS church. Furthermore, every single quote here is yanked out of context specifically to twist the original meaning. Wonder why they couldn't cite real LDS doctrinal sources and why they didn't the the reader about this lack of credibility?
I'm just going to go through these questions and give the REAL answers. If you want me to cite more scripture for any particular point, just ask.
Not in any special way. Jesus Christ alone is the Only Begotten Son of God.
No. If the Bible verses aren't enough for you, here's some you're welcome to read this Book of Mormon chapter where it specifically talks about it as well (verses 13-24, 1 Nephi 11) .
Yes. See the Bible. It's also re-enforced in that same Book of Mormon verses reference above.
Christ was always God.
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Helen
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WHY on earth did you even "bite"....
I saw this thread last evening , naked with no post on it ( the thread was naked, not me!!
Canada is a bit chilly for that! LOL )I was hoping that EVERYONE would ignore the thread, especially you.
It amazes me...( well it doesn't really..one gets used to it sadly) that so many people find it much easier to post threads 'against' something, rather than posts which edify and uplift people.
Some would rather speak about what they don't believe, rather than what they do believe.
Bless you...Helen
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