Convergence of Signs tells us the Return of Jesus is very Near and the Rapture is Imminent!!

[CoreIssue]

So you all choose what signs to watch for?If so which ones,and ifs it's imminent how can there be signs,and if there are signs how can H return at any moment?

The Bible tells us what signs to look for.

 

[Keraz]

1/ Enoch and Elijah were in heaven, flesh and blood, before this verse was written. They are still there.
Already discussed, he tried to disputed and was proven wrong by a few posters.

John 3:13 No one goes to heaven, except the One who came from there.
3/Again, Enoch and Elijah.

John 7:34 Where I go, you cannot come….
4/ Written for when said to a specific audience. Not to the future.

John 8:21-23 Your home is on earth......
5/ Written for a small group, not the whole church.

John 17:15 I do not pray for You to take My followers out of the world, but keep them from the evil one.
6/ Returns in the rapture which is promised in revelations 3:10.

Revelation 2:25-26 Hold fast to what you have until I Return. To those who are Victorious, to those who persevere in doing My will until the end, I will give them authority over the nations. Revelation 5:9-10
7/ Written after the rapture verse and removal of the church lampstands to the tribulation saints, not the church.

I cannot let this shockingly bad false teaching go unaddressed.
CoreIssue seems to think he is the arbiter of when Jesus was teaching the Church and when He was just talking to other people, that has no relevance to us, today. It is obvious that his criteria for this distinction is whether it conflicts with his determination to be snatched off to heaven in a 'rapture', or not.
In other words CI has set himself up an expert discerner of scripture and his opinion is that many of Jesus' Teachings are irrelevant to us.

I have had many discussions with 'rapture to heaven' believers, so I know how fixated they are to go where Jesus says it is impossible for humans to go. They say: Oh, but we are instantly transformed into Spirits! Citing 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, a prophecy about what will happen at the end of the Millennium; the GWT Judgement. So another serious error.
The very idea of anyone becoming a Spirit being BEFORE any kind of testing or Judgment, is totally unbiblical and cannot happen.

But where the 'rapture' believers go so wrong, is failing to see what God does actually Plan for His people. The full story is prophesied of our tasks and our destiny on earth. It WILL be a fantastic time, the great fulfillment of God's Plan for mankind and at the end of it, God Himself comes to dwell on earth with us.
Bring it on, Lord!

 

[CoreIssue]

I cannot let this shockingly bad false teaching go unaddressed.
CoreIssue seems to think he is the arbiter of when Jesus was teaching the Church and when He was just talking to other people, that has no relevance to us, today. It is obvious that his criteria for this distinction is whether it conflicts with his determination to be snatched off to heaven in a 'rapture', or not.
In other words CI has set himself up an expert discerner of scripture and his opinion is that many of Jesus' Teachings are irrelevant to us.

I have had many discussions with 'rapture to heaven' believers, so I know how fixated they are to go where Jesus says it is impossible for humans to go. They say: Oh, but we are instantly transformed into Spirits! Citing 1 Corinthians 15:50-56, a prophecy about what will happen at the end of the Millennium; the GWT Judgement. So another serious error.
The very idea of anyone becoming a Spirit being BEFORE any kind of testing of Judgment, is totally unbiblical and cannot happen.

But where the 'rapture' believers go so wrong, is failing to see what God does actually Plan for His people. The full story is prophesied of our tasks and our destiny on earth. It WILL be a fantastic time, the great fulfillment of God's Plan for mankind and at the end of it, God Himself comes to dwell on earth with us.
Bring it on, Lord!

All talk and no proof.

 

[Keraz]

All talk and no proof.

Bible Teaching is my proof, where do your fanciful ideas come from?

CI and all who believe in a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, I respectfully ask that you take a serious look at what the Bible does tell us about our future. I can assure you, that for those who love the Lord and follow His precepts, there is a glorious future. On earth.

 

[CoreIssue]

Bible Teaching is my proof, where do your fanciful ideas come from?

CI and all who believe in a 'rapture to heaven' of the Church, I respectfully ask that you take a serious look at what the Bible does tell us about our future. I can assure you, that for those who love the Lord and follow His precepts, there is a glorious future. On earth.

57 years worth of study, the rapture is solidly there,

 

[farouk]

Here I again with what? Pointing out scripture? But okay, sure...let's look at the actual passages, rather than having a "I say/you say that it says this" sort of thing:

Here's the verse I was speaking of. Jesus telling his Disciples that when they went into the world they could expect hardship and persecution, but that death was not to be feared, since God would protect them...not a 'hair' would perish.

You will be delivered up even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and some of you they will put to death. You will be hated by all for my name's sake. But not a hair of your head will perish. By your endurance you will gain your lives. -Luke 21:16–19

I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. -John 10:28

Not only that, but we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, -Romans 5:3

and you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved. -Matthew 10:22

But the one who endures to the end will be saved. -Matthew 24:13

For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised. -Hebrews 10:36

We can see how much the bible emphasises both endurance and also suffering, and how both lead to our ultimate reward of being saved...
But from Luke 21 we can see that this 'rescue' we can anticipate, is not from death itself...as it comes from what is here on earth...but of the second death.

Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who conquers will not be hurt by the second death.’ -Revelation 2:10–11

Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years. -Revelation 20:6



I'm not exactly of your point here. The passage itself could have two meanings...either Christ is disapproving the use of literal swords "that is enough" (enough talk of that)...which could hold some merrit, since he rebukes Peter shortly for using a sword to protect him in the garden. Others say that Christ is not disapproving the idea of protecting oneself with a sword. Afterall, it seems the Disciples had been carrying at least two swords up until that point with Christ's approval. So...defensive purposes, but not to advance the gospel by force...that sort of thing.
But...I can't see either debate weighing in here.


It strikes me that the real weight of our issue, or one of them, is that you believe that God must remove his people before he "tests" the world, correct? But...there seems, to me, to be a few problems with that. If God is going to 'test' the nations with earthquakes, famines, volcanic eruptions, water polution, etc...if that is what his 'wrath' is going to be...then...his "people" have been suffering from those things since the beginning of the world...or, at least, since its fall. What makes the "Tribulation" any different, apart from intensity? I'm sure the Christian who got swept away in a tsumani, or crushed to death in an earthquake may not appriciate your theological difference.
The second problem I have with it is this: everything I've read on "the Tribulation" suggests to me that those 'believers' who will be here at the time...Saints, you call them, they will experience most of their torment and death through the work of Satan and his followers, rather than the calamaties that fall on earth. Which brings me to number 3 problem...the notion that God could not, if he chose to, have such calamaties "skip" Christians upon the earth if he so chose to. We've all seen the news footage, of how tornados take out a whole block, but skips a house and leaves it pristine. When you say that God "could not" do that...that he "has to" take people off the earth...even though there is no scripture that says that...just because that is what fits into your notion of "escaping the wrath to come" means, then you fall into a category of telling God what he can and can't do.

Add all those problems together and then weigh it up with the fact that there is no scripture that explicitly states what you need it to state, and your doctrine is not very airtight.

It's good to keep looking unto Jesus (Hebrews 12.2) rather than to the possibility of disasters and events relating to apostasy.

Hope you guys had a great Christmas as a family.

 

[Keraz]

57 years worth of study, the rapture is solidly there,

Wow!
Then you can provide the verses
that prove it? Be aware that 1 Thess 4:17, John 14:1-2, Rev 3:10 and others that are touted as 'rapture' proofs, do not even mention heaven, certainly not as our destination.

You should, after 57 years of study, have a good idea of what God really wants of His people.

 

[CoreIssue]

Wow!
Then you can provide the verse that prove it? Be aware that 1 Thess 4:17, John 14:1-2, Rev 3:10 and others that are touted as 'rapture' proofs, do not even mention heaven, certainly not as our destination.
You should, after 57 years of study, have a good idea of what God really wants of His people.

You have key verses listed right here.

And such as Matthew 24 and 25. Expand the reading in 1 Thessalonians to include the whole context.

Where else could it be but heaven when removed from the earth?

You have key verses listed right here.

Where else could it be but heaven when removed from the earth?

Here is more material relevant to the issue.

The Rapture

Marriage Super of the Lamb

God said the age of the Gentiles, the church age, would end and Israel would return.

God wants people to repent to be with him eternity. He wants us to study his word literally, not figuratively.

He wants us to witness to others.

You seem to have made up your mind what you require God to have said instead of accepting and understanding what he did say.

 

[Naomi25]

It's good to keep looking unto Jesus (Hebrews 12.2) rather than to the possibility of disasters and events relating to apostasy.

Hope you guys had a great Christmas as a family.

It's not all about looking for disasters...its about why. The reasons behind it all, I think. When bad things happen, they leave people hurting. It ought to be our job to come along side them and tell them that these things are not all there is...that there is hope amongst the struggle, a plan past the tragedy. That hope can be found now, touched and enjoyed now, but it's ultimate fulfillment is coming, and that day will see all struggle and pain gone. That is a very great hope and promise, one worth looking for.

And, yes, thank you! We had a wonderful Christmas...hoping you had the same!

 

[n2thelight]

The Bible tells us what signs to look for.

Yet you all (rapturist)say no signs are needed..........Okay

 

[n2thelight]

Pay attention. Post #(83) spoke to your question of why signs, which you keep harping on. Now want to ask when did the Rapture become imminent. Which you also always harp on.

Your question is confusing as you group the Second Coming, the Resurrection, and the Rapture as imminent.

In other words, since your question of 'why signs' has been answered, are you now a believer in the Rapture? Let me guess...no.

Stranger

I don't view anything as imminent as Christ told us everything that will and must happen before His return.

So how is my question confusing?

You say the rapture can happen at any time,then turn around and say there are signs ,again can't be both

As for my question, when did the RAPTURE become imminent?

 

[Stranger]

I don't view anything as imminent as Christ told us everything that will and must happen before His return.

So how is my question confusing?

You say the rapture can happen at any time,then turn around and say there are signs ,again can't be both

As for my question, when did the RAPTURE become imminent?

I didn't say there are signs for the Rapture. Read my post #(83). So, since I answered your question, and corrected your mistaken belief, are you now an adherent of the Rature?

I explained how your question is confusing. You group the Second Coming, the Resurrection, and the Rapture as imminent. Read again post #(100).

The Rapture of the Church has always been imminent. There is nothing that need occur prophetically for the Rapture of the Church.

Stranger

 

[n2thelight]

The Rapture of the Church has always been imminent. There is nothing that need occur prophetically for the Rapture of the Church.

So again I ask,when did the rapture become imminent?

 

[n2thelight]

1. Jesus said Peter would die as an old man, therefor the Resurrection / Catching-away could NOT happen until this prophesy was fulfilled.
2. Paul died about the same time as Peter. This means the Resurrection / Catching away was NOT imminent during the span of Paul’s ministry to the Body of Christ, and therefor God did NOT reveal to him any such thing! It was not a possibility until the death of Peter!
3. Paul would NOT (under the unction of the Holy Spirit) have taught as doctrine to his followers something that could not possibly happen, nor would he have included this concept in his writings to them. The Scriptures were penned by God himself using holy men as vessels. God does not lie, nor does his Word! It would have been a lie to teach and promote as imminent something NOT possible in his lifetime, and the Holy Spirit would not have guided Paul to state a falsehood in his writings to the Church!

So again why do you need signs for something that could happen at anytime?

 

[Stranger]

So again I ask,when did the rapture become imminent?

So again I answer. What did I say? The rapture has always been imminent. Do you want a month/day/year? Sorry.

Stranger

 

[n2thelight]

So again I answer. What did I say? The rapture has always been imminent. Do you want a month/day/year? Sorry.

Stranger

I find that to be impossible

1. Jesus said Peter would die as an old man, therefor the Resurrection / Catching-away could NOT happen until this prophesy was fulfilled.

 

[n2thelight]

So Stranger are you saying the rapture could have happened anytime after Christ died on the cross?

 

[Stranger]

1. Jesus said Peter would die as an old man, therefor the Resurrection / Catching-away could NOT happen until this prophesy was fulfilled.
2. Paul died about the same time as Peter. This means the Resurrection / Catching away was NOT imminent during the span of Paul’s ministry to the Body of Christ, and therefor God did NOT reveal to him any such thing! It was not a possibility until the death of Peter!
3. Paul would NOT (under the unction of the Holy Spirit) have taught as doctrine to his followers something that could not possibly happen, nor would he have included this concept in his writings to them. The Scriptures were penned by God himself using holy men as vessels. God does not lie, nor does his Word! It would have been a lie to teach and promote as imminent something NOT possible in his lifetime, and the Holy Spirit would not have guided Paul to state a falsehood in his writings to the Church!

So again why do you need signs for something that could happen at anytime?

So, again, and again, I never said you needed signs for the rapture. Read post #(83).

There is nothing in the prophetic Scripture that must occur in order for the rapture to occur. That makes it imminent.

You say God could not rapture the Church until Peter and Paul died. Sure He could have. When Jesus came offering the Kingdom to Israel, had they received Him, would the Kingdom begin? But Jesus had to die first, correct? So how could He be offering the Kingdom?

When Jonah preached "forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown", did he lie? Because in 40 days Nineveh was not overthrown. Did God lie? (Jonah 3:2-4)

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

So Stranger are you saying the rapture could have happened anytime after Christ died on the cross?

The Church certainly had to begin first. You can't have a rapture of the Church without a Church...can you.

Stranger

 

[n2thelight]

I didn't say there are signs for the Rapture. Read my post #(83). So, since I answered your question, and corrected your mistaken belief, are you now an adherent of the Rature?

I explained how your question is confusing. You group the Second Coming, the Resurrection, and the Rapture as imminent. Read again post #(100).

The Rapture of the Church has always been imminent. There is nothing that need occur prophetically for the Rapture of the Church.

Stranger

Is that not the title of this thread?
Convergence of Signs tells us the Return of Jesus is very Near and the Rapture is Imminent!!

What signs?