What is a Cult?

[Willie T]

Any animal that has a cloven hoof that is completely split into double hooves, and which brings up its cud that one you may eat.

— Leviticus 11:3

Well, Sir, you be flat outta luck with chicken.

 

[Danube]

Well, Sir, you be flat outta luck with chicken.

Lev 11:13
“And these you shall detest among the birds; they shall not be eaten; they are detestable: the eagle, the bearded vulture, the black vulture,

 

[Willie T]

Lev 11:13
“And these you shall detest among the birds; they shall not be eaten; they are detestable: the eagle, the bearded vulture, the black vulture,

Notice, now, that I deliberately did that so that you would prove something all on your own.

In your first post, you stopped short, leaving it looking like the only animals we could eat were just those you listed.

When pushed a little on it, you then went to the chicken.

I could now push a little more, and bring up the sheet that was let down to Peter (applying it both Spiritually and practically) and show that we are no longer under those laws.... or go on into the consideration of others in eating and drinking (or not) on certain days.

There are too many people here still trying to learn what living as a Christian means, so we just cannot let that kind of thing go unchecked.

You might as well learn now that there are about a half dozen of us here who will not let people get away with playing those "Old Law" games.

 

[Helen]

I don't think such debating "defense" is necessary, and so often by "defending" we turn into Peter cutting off Malcus' ear.

Rather, everyone is at one point going to be a babe in Christ that does not have the words to express what/why they believe. That's ok-- we all start off as babes and their is nothing wrong with a babe or saying "I don't know". Build up your faith and knowledge one step at a time, and do not remotely feel bad for not knowing every subject perfectness.

Good words.
As I read @Mayflower 's post I was thinking the very same...but I am too lazy today to write it...I am glad that you did.

I don't find I am ever led to 'defend' what I believe.
I do state what I believe, I will say why I believe what I believe.
But if someone challenges it...I do not bother to waste my time in 'defending' it. ( unless the person is really interested)
If it is true it will stand. If it is false it will fall to the ground.
God has looked after His word since the beginning, He doesn't need me to 'defend' it!!

I do remember the very first time I said to someone...
" I have no idea, the Lord has not shown me that. "
It was so liberating!

Just like the time someone asked us to pick them up at the airport at ten PM and they were going out in the morning at 6am.
So many friends had given out our phone number to their friends!!
All we were , were free taxi drive , free bed , etc ...one day I took a deep breath and said ..." No, they have hotels right there at the airport, it will be much more convenient for you. God bless and have a good trip." I 'felt' VERY unchristian, but I knew it was right.
We may be God loving people, but we are not other people's door mats .

The first time for anything, is the hardest. :)

 

[farouk]

I agree in some points, disagree in others. I do believe in the Holy Trinity and eternal torment for sin without trusting in Jesus Christ's sacrifice. I don't see how that is a yoke of bondage.

For a child will be born to us, a son will be given to us; And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
Isaiah 9:6 NASB

Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me. But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one."
John 10:25‭-‬30 NASB

Great verses there; shows the believer's assurance. :)

 

[Danube]

Notice, now, that I deliberately did that so that you would prove something all on your own.

In your first post, you stopped short, leaving it looking like the only animals we could eat were just those you listed.

When pushed a little on it, you then went to the chicken.

I could now push a little more, and bring up the sheet that was let down to Peter (applying it both Spiritually and practically) and show that we are no longer under those laws.... or go on into the consideration of others in eating and drinking (or not) on certain days.

There are too many people here still trying to learn what living as a Christian means, so we just cannot let that kind of thing go unchecked.

You might as well learn now that there are about a half dozen of us here who will not let people get away with playing those "Old Law" games.

This is not a game I can assure you of that. So we don't get all puffed up, can you explain to me how does God command us to love him?
You can use scripture best to explain this to me teacher?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Willie T]

This is not a game I can assure you of that. So we don't get all puffed up, can you explain to me how does God command us to love him?
You can use scripture best to explain this to me teacher?
Thanks in advance.

Does this mean you intend to stone your rebellious teenager to death? It is, after all, a "command" that you are to prove you love God by obeying.

What you are attempting to do is exactly what I mean by, "games."

Why not just knock it off right now?

 

[Danube]

Does this mean you intend to stone your rebellious teenager to death? It is, after all, a "command" that you are to prove you love God by obeying.

What you are attempting to do is exactly what I mean by, "games."

Why not just knock it off right now?

Hang on Teacher! You haven't answered my question. How does God (also Jesus) Command us to show our love for him?
Please tell us.
Also I do not have a rebellious teenager who requires stoning, but if I did, then would I be commiting murder? What of the "Old Law" ?
Matthew 5:18
Or...
Matthew 10:37

Clearly not a game, teacher.

 

[Danube]

I think many of us have seized upon dozens of things Christ never said were associated with Salvation. For many of us it seems to be, Believe in Christ, AND also...…..

Even satan (our accuser) believes there is a God and so Jesus also, as satan tried to tempt him.
Matthew 7:22

People put the culture of the disciples (even the extra pharissical one) before the lessons of careful rebuke performed by Jesus upon their errors (when examples in scripture showed the manifested as action or speech) to teach by example.

Matthew 16:23 .....
John 21:15-18.....

Men have put the teachings of the students above that of the teacher.

Most Churches in the UK teach a Pauline-type theology that quite frankly is totally and diametrically opposed to the teachings of Jesus as they omit the fundamental bedrock of the faith = Law (protection or punishment) commanded/non negotiable with the cause and effect that will "consume" the nations where not properly applied.

Please...reader, study what the bible clearly states will happen to the land of any rebellious nation, look around, also read how the land can be "cleansed" but more importantly ask yourself what your (our) duty is to allow God to govern our lives.
Many are about to be consumed in the melting pot of Multi-cult-ural-ism (plural/many practicing cults) and once in you will not be abel to climb oit of this cauldron EVER.

JESUS has been completely Re-packaged as universalism, political correctness, sexual/racial/religious equality...specifically for the LAWLESS, thought up by passing men of the moment who after building their house on sand will get washed away by the tide of truth.

 

[brakelite]

Notice, now, that I deliberately did that so that you would prove something all on your own.

In your first post, you stopped short, leaving it looking like the only animals we could eat were just those you listed.

When pushed a little on it, you then went to the chicken.

I could now push a little more, and bring up the sheet that was let down to Peter (applying it both Spiritually and practically) and show that we are no longer under those laws.... or go on into the consideration of others in eating and drinking (or not) on certain days.

There are too many people here still trying to learn what living as a Christian means, so we just cannot let that kind of thing go unchecked.

You might as well learn now that there are about a half dozen of us here who will not let people get away with playing those "Old Law" games.

You do understand though do you not, that those "old" dietary laws came from a God whose interest was not in being an arbitrary despot, but a caring Father whose sole interest was in the health and well-being of His people? Has that changed?

 

[icxn]

You do understand though do you not, that those "old" dietary laws came from a God whose interest was not in being an arbitrary despot, but a caring Father whose sole interest was in the health and well-being of His people? Has that changed?

That hasn't changed. The problem is when people measure health and well being in terms of a robust body and a comfortable life. God on the other hand, calls health and well-being a pure heart and a righteous way of life:

Mark 7:

14 And he called the people to him again and said to them, “Hear me, all of you, and understand: 15 There is nothing outside a person that by going into him can defile him, but the things that come out of a person are what defile him.” 17 And when he had entered the house and left the people, his disciples asked him about the parable. 18 And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, 19 since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.) 20 And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. 21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”​

If someone wants to keep the dietary laws in an external way that is fine as long as they don't neglect to keep the spirit of the law or condemn those who consider the former as rubbish and loss (Philippians 3:7-9) in order to gain the latter.

 

[Willie T]

That hasn't changed. The problem is when people measure health and well being in terms of a robust body and a comfortable life. God on the other hand, calls health and well-being a pure heart and a righteous way of life:

Mark 7:

14 And he called the people to him again and said to them, “Hear me, all of you, and understand: 15 There is nothing outside a person that by going into him can defile him, but the things that come out of a person are what defile him.” 17 And when he had entered the house and left the people, his disciples asked him about the parable. 18 And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a person from outside cannot defile him, 19 since it enters not his heart but his stomach, and is expelled?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.) 20 And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. 21 For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”​

If someone wants to keep the dietary laws in an external way that is fine as long as they don't neglect to keep the spirit of the law or condemn those who consider the former as rubbish and loss (Philippians 3:7-9) in order to gain the latter.

That was kind of my whole point. Many people search diligently for "Laws" to put themselves under... I suppose that they think they are thus pleasing God in some better way.

 

[Danube]

That was kind of my whole point. Many people search diligently for "Laws" to put themselves under... I suppose that they think they are thus pleasing God in some better way.

So tell me teacher, what moral compass do you use to know what is and is not pleasing to God? Jesus gives a strong hold on Torah observance by telling all he came not to abolish, it really cannot be made any clearer!

 

[icxn]

So tell me teacher, what moral compass do you use to know what is and is not pleasing to God? Jesus gives a strong hold on Torah observance by telling all he came not to abolish, it really cannot be made any clearer!

If I may… Willie put the word Laws in quotes, which suggests that he was speaking about the letter of the law as opposed to the spirit of the law. The latter, I’m certain he upholds, being a clean animal of the flock of Christ that ruminates on the words of scripture (chews the cud) until he extracts the inner/spiritual meaning. Thus with knowledge and evangelical* works, as if two hooves, he walks the way that leads to life.

________
* of the Gospel

 

[Danube]

Willie'speaketh his own words.

 

[Willie T]

So tell me teacher, what moral compass do you use to know what is and is not pleasing to God? Jesus gives a strong hold on Torah observance by telling all he came not to abolish, it really cannot be made any clearer!

I think Augustine said it well when he said this in a sermon on 1 John 4:4-12, I believe it was:

See what we are insisting upon; that the deeds of men are only discerned by the root of charity. For many things may be done that have a good appearance, and yet proceed not from the root of charity. For thorns also have flowers: some actions truly seem rough, seem savage; howbeit they are done for discipline at the bidding of charity. Once for all, then, a short precept is given you: Love, and do what you will: whether you hold your peace, through love hold your peace; whether you cry out, through love cry out; whether you correct, through love correct; whether you spare, through love do you spare: let the root of love be within, of this root can nothing spring but what is good.

 

[Danube]

The Law is Love.
It protects, even in punishment it protects the innocent and deters the growth of evil in the land.
Without law you will move towards law-less-ness and I cannot think of a more dark and loveless place than that which denies the Law by perversion of justice.
Cults do not adhere to the same Law but even a satanist for example can/might act out of Love for his master.
Matthew 6:24

 

[Helen]

If I may… Willie put the word Laws in quotes, which suggests that he was speaking about the letter of the law as opposed to the spirit of the law. The latter, I’m certain he upholds, being a clean animal of the flock of Christ that ruminates on the words of scripture (chews the cud) until he extracts the inner/spiritual meaning. Thus with knowledge and evangelical* works, as if two hooves, he walks the way that leads to life.

________
* of the Gospel

...amen bro!
....

We will always have the legalists with us... :)
The law, and the curse also, passed through the cross and comes out 'In Christ' ...a blessing!!

 

[Helen]

Without law you will move towards law-less-ness and I cannot think of a more dark and loveless place than that which denies the Law by perversion of justice.

What a load of rubbish.
And you no doubt believe that what you write is a fountain of truth.

Those who love God have the law written upon the heart..they keep Gods truth because the love...not because of any law...they do not keep the law to prove anything...God sees and knows the hearts of man.

 

[Danube]

Speak for yourself should you otherwise sound like a lawless opinionated Paulanist female vicar.

All Pharassical yeast, and still puffing the bread up once everyone is trying to digest it too!
You brought no scripture with your "world" view. Are you my judge also? Give eachother a pat on the back.

Matthew 10:14