Who is Jesus Christ?

[Stranger]

You can't separet out the cults doctrine. Every ex cult member I've heard the testimony of, has first questioned the doctrine and then sought answers as to who Jesus is.

It is not what we or I require them to know about Jesus, but what Jesus reveals of himself to them.

Can you answer the questions or not. If not, then give it up.

Stranger

 

[101G]

No you are in error is suggesting that there is only one person in the Godhead.

if there is more than one person in the Godhead, please answer post #259.

I'll be looking for your answer, or any trinitarian may answer.

 

[Enoch111]

how many person is this letter of Revelation from Enoch111, or any trinitarian can answer.

There are THREE divine Persons in the Godhead according to the first chapter of Revelation:

Verse 1: The Revelation of Jesus Christ, [THE SON] which God [THE FATHER] gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Verse 4: John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; [THE FATHER] and from the seven Spirits [THE HOLY SPIRIT] which are before his throne;

Verse 5: And from Jesus Christ, [THE SON] who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Verse 6: And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; [THE FATHER] to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Verse 8: I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.[THE FATHER]

Verse 11: Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: [THE SON] and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

Verse 17: And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:[THE SON]

Verse 18: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death. [THE SON]

It is crystal clear from Revelation 1 that BOTH the Father and the Son identify themselves as "I AM ALPHA AND OMEGA". This would not be true unless Christ is the ETERNAL Son of God, and is Himself God.

 

[101G]

well, finally an answer, as if it will do you any good, but at least an answer

Verse 4: John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; [THE FATHER] and from the seven Spirits [THE HOLY SPIRIT] which are before his throne;

lets take these verses one by one. and I'll give you time to answer back...
#1. "FROM" him which is, and which was, and which is to come; [THE FATHER]
the "[Father?], lets see, scripture, Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty". so the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, is the Lord, and he, (the Lord), is also the, which is, and which was, and which is to come, and he is the Almighty. hold that verse. now Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last”. who is the FIRST and the LAST? let's see, Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
Revelation 1:18 "I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death".

THAT'S THE LORD JESUS, but......... JESUS IS "ALSO" THE "Alpha" and "Omega", the "beginning" and the "ending". let's see,
Revelation 1:10 "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
Revelation 1:11 "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea". and if one keep on reading to verses 17 & 18 it it the Lord "JESUS" the First and the Last.

and this one,
Revelation 22:13 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.


CONCLUSION: Revelation 1:8 "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty".

the "which is, and which was, and which is to come" is the Lord JESUS, who is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending the first and the last

well Enoch111, you just lost the ONE whom you calls the [FATHER]. .......

because according to the scriptures, him "which is, and which was, and which is to come"
is the Lord JESUS.......

so now you're ONE short of a trinity. if you would like, you can respond. .....

well that's one perrson eliminated, and I'm just getting started.

 

[101G]

now while we wait for Enoch111 response if there is one. let's get some simple understanding on the Revelation of JESUS the Christ.

Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John".

many People picture in their minds that it's two people standing side by side, and one gave the other one something. ............ (the Revelation... a book maybe). but most people think it's two people or presons. ERROR on your part. God is Spirit, "abstract", he has no hands to pass something to someone else. this is symbolism to project that something is given.

 

[101G]

This would not be true unless Christ is the ETERNAL Son of God, and is Himself God.

well it's true, and scripture has proven that out see Post #264. and Scriptures don't lie.

so you must now come up with an answer to rebut the scriptures, or your assumptions are incorrect.

 

[101G]

let's get who is Jesus christ correct.
#1. he's no second person of any Godhead, he's the ONLY PERSON in the Godhead.

#2. he's no human agent of God as the unitarian believe.

#3. he's no angel as the JW believe.

#4. and he's no one "ONLY" single person who is a Saviour, as the "ONENESS" believe, but he's a "diversity" of himself in flesh and blood as the Saviour.

so I'm asserting that the trinitarian, unitarian, JW, and oneness beliefs are in ERROR with the Scriptures of the bible. and anyone else in between.

the Godhead is not a mystery, according to the scriptures,
Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Romans 1:21 "Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

so it's NO "EXCUSE" not to know

 

[Stranger]

let's get who is Jesus christ correct.
#1. he's no second person of any Godhead, he's the ONLY PERSON in the Godhead.

#2. he's no human agent of God as the unitarian believe.

#3. he's no angel as the JW believe.

#4. and he's no one "ONLY" single person who is a Saviour, as the "ONENESS" believe, but he's a "diversity" of himself in flesh and blood as the Saviour.

so I'm asserting that the trinitarian, unitarian, JW, and oneness beliefs are in ERROR with the Scriptures of the bible. and anyone else in between.

the Godhead is not a mystery, according to the scriptures,
Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Romans 1:21 "Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

so it's NO "EXCUSE" not to know

Actually, the Godhead is a mystery. (Col. 2:2)

Stranger

 

[101G]

Actually, the Godhead is a mystery. (Col. 2:2)

Stranger

People say it's a mystery, but the bible is clear,
Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse".

as it's not EXCUSE", and it's no MYSTERY.

here is the MYSTERY revealed, Jesus Christ is the equal "SHARE" of God himself in Flesh.

and this "MYSTERY" is "REVEALED" from Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21

it just men who are blind to it.

 

[Stranger]

People say it's a mystery, but the bible is clear,
Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse".

as it's not EXCUSE", and it's no MYSTERY.

here is the MYSTERY revealed, Jesus Christ is the equal "SHARE" of God himself in Flesh.

and this "MYSTERY" is "REVEALED" from Genesis 1:1 through Revelation 22:21

it just men who are blind to it.

No, the Bible says God is a mystery. (Col. 2:2) "That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;"

The verses you give in (Romans) show that every man knows God is there, having stamped it in their very being, (1:19) and His power, (1:20) through the visible creation.

But this is very basic knowledge of God. God and the Godhead is a mystery that we will always be learning about. I don't believe we will ever come to a place where we know all about God. We are just starting.

Stranger

 

[brakelite]

And this is life eternal; that they might know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ Whom Thou hast sent. John 17:3.
Was Jesus talking to Himself? Who sent Jesus? Who spoke to Jesus at His baptism? Who was Jesus referring to when He said to Mary, "I go to MY Father and your Father, to My God, and your God"?

 

[101G]

of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;

I must disagree with that assessment, and here's why. "the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God

let's see this understanding of the mystery. follow me. scripture,
Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God".

according to the bible there in no one God's "equal", scripture,
Isaiah 40:25 "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One". or this,
Isaiah 46:5 "To whom will ye liken me, and make me equal, and compare me, that we may be like?"

this is crystal clear, no one is EQUAL to, oe "WITH" God, which he himself describing himself as a single desigination, "I" and "Me", only one person.

so, how can Jesus claim that he is "equal" WITH", notice not equal "to" but equal "WITH" the "I" and the "me" in the Isaiah scriptures above?.

let's check the record and see/understand. God is a "Spirit", (per John 4:24a), "a" here means only "ONE". so clearly there is only one "Spirit", and that's "Spirit with the cap "S" in Spirit.

now Philippians 2:6 states, "Who, being in the form of God. the term "Form" is the Greek word here, is G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') n.
1. form.
2. (intrinsically) fundamental nature.
[perhaps from the base of G3313 (through the idea of adjustment of parts)]
KJV: form
Root(s): G3313

definition #2 defines our Lord Jesus nature, because Philippians 2:6 states, "Who, being in the form of God.

but the million dollar question, what "KIND" of NATURE is equal to God's nature that is Spirit, answer, the "SAME" Spirit or the "SHARED" Spirit of one's ownself. do the definition of G3444 μορφή morphe (mor-fee') provide us that answer, YES, and a resounding YES, because G3444 μορφή morphe root is the answer. which is
G3313 μέρος meros (me'-ros) n.
1. a portion (i.e. an amount allotted, a part of something).
2. a part.
3. (as an adverb) partly, in part.
4. (as a participle) participating (i.e. the act of taking part in).
5. a piece (i.e. a limited portion).
KJV: behalf, course, coast, craft, particular (+ -ly), part (+ -ly), piece, portion, respect, side, some sort(-what)

definition #1. gives us our answer. what is "ANOTHER" word that is synonyms with "Portion?" ..... answer "SHARED"

THERE IS THE ANSWER TO THE NATURE OF JESUS CHRIST. he have the shared equal nature "WITH" God, who is Spirit. G243 allos proves, and confirm this. this why the definite article is used in describing the "Son".

supported definition,
H430 אֱלֹהִים 'elohiym (el-o-heem') n-m.
אֱלֹהֵי 'elohiy (el-o-hee') [alternate plural]
1. (literally) supreme ones.
2. (hence, in the ordinary sense) gods.
3. (specifically, in the plural, especially with the article) the Supreme God (i.e. the all supreme).
4. (sometimes) supreme, used as a superlative.
5. (occasionally, by way of deference) supreme magistrates, the highest magistrates of the land.
6. (also) the supreme angels (entities of unspecified type).
[plural of H433]
KJV: angels, X exceeding, God (gods)(-dess, -ly), X (very) great, judges, X mighty.
Root(s): H433

definition #3. the article which indicate the Supreme God as in, and here is it use,
Hebrews 1:8 "But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom".

here the "Son" is used with the "definite article", which means he's not a created being.
and that's scripture.

so please all the Greeks experts get your bibles out and check it out as to what I just posted about the definite article being used in Hebrews 1:8

Now, knowing that. JESUS is the same "Spirit in Flesh only", "Shared"

this will end any questions about our Lord JESUS deity.

will be looking for any contridicting answers.

 

[Stranger]

101G

No, Your statement, that God is only one person, is your assumption. Thus when you say 'follow me', I depart.

So, again, the Bible says that God is a mystery. But you say God is not a mystery. For you to want to say God is not a mystery, makes you equal with God. For you must know everything about God.

Do you? Do you know everything about God?

Stranger

 

[101G]

101G

No, Your statement, that God is only one person, is your assumption. Thus when you say 'follow me', I depart.

So, again, the Bible says that God is a mystery. But you say God is not a mystery. For you to want to say God is not a mystery, makes you equal with God. For you must know everything about God.

Do you? Do you know everything about God?

Stranger

thanks for the reply, when the apostle Paul said "be ye follower of me" are you departing?

I was asking to follow me in thought on this subject matter.

and yes, it's a mystery to you for you don'y want to hear the TRUTH.

 

[Stranger]

thanks for the reply, when the apostle Paul said "be ye follower of me" are you departing?

I was asking to follow me in thought on this subject matter.

and yes, it's a mystery to you for you don'y want to hear the TRUTH.

Do you know everything about God?

Stranger

 

[101G]

Do you know everything about God?

Stranger

First thanks for the reply,
second, of course not, neither do you, but what God has given me that I know.

Now, on that point, that what I know do you following the understanding of these post?

 

[Stranger]

First thanks for the reply,
second, of course not, neither do you, but what God has given me that I know.

Now, on that point, that what I know do you following the understanding of these post?

But I never said I did. You on the other hand say God is no mystery. But, God is a mystery. Scripture is clear. (Col. 2:2)

What God has given you to know is the same as He has given all to know. That is the revelation found in the Scriptures. And in the knowledge of that revelation, all Christians grow. But you were mistaken in using (Rom. 1) to prove God is no mystery. Just as you are mistaken in your belief that God is one person.

In other words, in the revealed knowledge that God has given to us of Himself, you missed it.

Stranger

 

[101G]

But I never said I did. You on the other hand say God is no mystery. But, God is a mystery. Scripture is clear. (Col. 2:2)

What God has given you to know is the same as He has given all to know. That is the revelation found in the Scriptures. And in the knowledge of that revelation, all Christians grow. But you were mistaken in using (Rom. 1) to prove God is no mystery. Just as you are mistaken in your belief that God is one person.

In other words, in the revealed knowledge that God has given to us of Himself, you missed it.

Stranger

thanks for the reply,
Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

all are without excuse, because the Holy Ghost will teach us "ALL" things. God said that he will teach us, and the apostle Jame by God, said this ,
James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

James 1:6 "But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

so, you have not because you ask not.

 

[Stranger]

thanks for the reply,
Romans 1:19 "Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

all are without excuse, because the Holy Ghost will teach us "ALL" things. God said that he will teach us, and the apostle Jame by God, said this ,
James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

James 1:6 "But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.

so, you have not because you ask not.

Yes, you have already said that. But, as I already explained, it doesn't disprove that God is a mystery as (Col. 2:2) declares. And it does not disprove that God is One yet three Persons.

So, what is your point?

Stranger

 

[101G]

Yes, you have already said that. But, as I already explained, it doesn't disprove that God is a mystery as (Col. 2:2) declares. And it does not disprove that God is One yet three Persons.

So, what is your point?

Stranger

those scriptures is not a mystery if you want to know. meaning you have no excuse