Who is Jesus Christ?

[Stranger]

In your opinion. There is zero evidence to this stretch in the bible.

Start with (Ps. 2:7) and (Acts 13:33).

Stranger

 

[farouk]

It is not a strawman argument. It is a legitimate question. Why won't you answer it? Scared? If you're scared, say you're scared.

Does the answer trouble you? Will your theology fold like a house of cards?

Stranger

Sorry, what was the question again?

 

[farouk]

That's odd. It had never occurred to me that anyone would read the beginning of John and not come away with the understanding that John was speaking of Jesus...but I see it's so. Don't mean you are odd, just that the thought john wasn't speaking of Jesus is odd to me.

It's self-evident that the Lord Jesus is in view: John 1.14; John 1.18.

 

[CoreIssue]

But God does not say of the Son: you r throne "o h son of God" will last forever. God says of the Son, GOD - not S ON of God. So why do you ask then why we are called sons of God...?

God says of the son: your throne, oh God...

So my question was: why does God call Jesus God? I think it is because Jesus is God. But I wanted to know why YOU think God calls Jesus God.

Answer my question and it will help you understand your question. Why are angels called sons of God? Why are saints called sons of God?

 

[CoreIssue]

That's odd. It had never occurred to me that anyone would read the beginning of John and not come away with the understanding that John was speaking of Jesus...but I see it's so. Don't mean you are odd, just that the thought john wasn't speaking of Jesus is odd to me.

Jesus does not enter until verse 14

 

[farouk]

I was hoping for a new insight or other verses of scriptures regarding this.

Always good to make Scripture the ultimate reference point.

 

[amadeus]

Always good to make Scripture the ultimate reference point.

What happens if you don't have and cannot obtain a Bible? What happens if you cannot read [illiterate]?

 

[farouk]

What happens if you don't have and cannot obtain a Bible? What happens if you cannot read [illiterate]?

Important to look for a source of Scripture...

 

[amadeus]

Important to look for a source of Scripture...

Are there not countries still today where it is illegal to own a Bible presuming that one could be found for sale? Aren't there still people today who are illiterate?

 

[farouk]

Jesus does not enter until verse 14

Verse 1...'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.'

 

[CoreIssue]

Why do you keep bringing up "His flesh"???? Had you read Micah 5:2 carefully and believingly, you would have seen that His INCARNATION (taking human form) was in Bethlehem, but He existed as God the Word (the only begotten Son of God) from EVERLASTING (eternity past). It is pure unbelief to deny this.

I bring it up because Jesus is 100% human and his flesh and 100% God in his spirit.

His spirit did not die on the cross. His flesh did.

Just like with Adam. God created an earthen vessel that did not come alive or function until he gave Adam a spirit.

Man means Adam. Jesus was the second Adam, meaning just a flesh shell until the until God was placed in him.

Adam was also called son of God.

Luke 3:38 New International Version (NIV)
38 the son of Enosh,

the son of Seth, the son of Adam,

the son of God.

Did that make Adam God also?

Are angels Gods since they are sons of God?

Are we Gods as we are sons of God?

You do realize there are certain cults that teach this.

 

[CoreIssue]

Verse 1...'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.'

The Word did not incarnate and become Jesus Christ until verse 14. The Word existed before this but not Jesus.

 

[farouk]

The Word did not incarnate and become Jesus Christ until verse 14. The Word existed before this but not Jesus.

The Son is eternal.

 

[CoreIssue]

The Son is eternal.

His spirit, yes. His flesh, no.

 

[APAK]

That's odd. It had never occurred to me that anyone would read the beginning of John and not come away with the understanding that John was speaking of Jesus...but I see it's so. Don't mean you are odd, just that the thought john wasn't speaking of Jesus is odd to me.

Well you seem to be a very honest person in your feedback....I'll be the same to you of course...
In John Chapter One, John opens up with the fact that the word (logos) was operating within/ in conjunction with God Almighty before or as time began, as in Genesis. So in verse 3 John emphasizes that God Almighty with his divine word created everything into existence.

That is his modus operanti in communicating and affecting things in this 3D-T Universe. John ​

would then tell us that our God and his word is part of mankind's salvation too. God's word included the plan of salvation as we read from John 1:4 thru 13. The other 3 reporters did not entertain this in their gospel reporting. John introduced it to let us know that God Almighty the creator had to create the perfect image of his himself by injecting or sharing a part of his word (divine expression, plans and purposes, thoughts etc) in the man he also created, named Jesus, his TRUE son (1:14). By doing this, Jesus was the true son of God. Jesus knew many parts of his Father's will, purposes and desires. The word of God Almighty created this man to become his proxy for our salvation. Jesus himself became part of God's word. Jesus had to know and experience the word of God along with his his natural human nature to the cross. Our 2nd and last Adam had to be perfect in the eyes of his Father. God Almighty of spirit and light is the divine word, not Jesus, although Jesus shared and shares in this glory and this divinity today by being in his Father. When we pray to Jesus, our Father know of it indeed. Jesus does not have to pray to the Father anymore for us as per scripture...

Bless you,

APAK

 

[101G]

Well let's up the ante a bit.

The answer is in the OT phrase *the LORD*, which is actually YHWH (or YHVH) and is pronounced as Yahweh or Jehovah. This name is the name of the Godhead (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) and in Isa 44:24 it is Christ Jesus who speaks as *the LORD*. He identifies Himself as (a)thy Redeemer and (b)the Creator.

Granted that *alone* and *by myself* suggest that it is the eternal Word who is exclusively the Creator. But in fact ELOHIM (plural) is the Creator, which means the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were jointly involved in creation: In the beginning God [אֱלֹהִ֑ים ELOHIM] created the heaven and the earth. (Gen 1:1)

here we have a classic contridiction of the scriptures in trying to support a doctrine. the poster said, "in Isa 44:24 it is Christ Jesus who speaks as *the LORD*". and then states, "Granted that *alone* and *by myself* suggest that it is the eternal Word who is exclusively the Creator".

ok, good so far, but then the poster says, "But in fact ELOHIM (plural) is the Creator, which means the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit were jointly involved in creation"

this contridicted what he said by being alone, if the LORD who the Poster say is JESUS speaking in Isaiah 44:24 is the "CREATOR" and the SAME person in John 1:3 who made everything. between "CREATING" and "MAKING" everything there is nothing left for anyone else.

so the post is in ERROR.

the one who "CREATED" everything is the one who "MADE" everything that's only ONE PERSON. which means there is no second, or third person............

 

[Enoch111]

so the post is in ERROR.

No you are in error is suggesting that there is only one person in the Godhead.

 

[CoreIssue]

Elohim means a singular unity of three or more individuals.

In the Old Testament that unity was first, second and third persons of the Godhead. In the New Testament father son and Holy Ghost.

The flesh of Jesus is not God, his spirit is.

 

[101G]

No you are in error is suggesting that there is only one person in the Godhead.

Yes, there is only one PERSON in the Godhead, and that only Person "diversified" himself in flesh.

ok Enoch111, let's see if there are three persons in the Godhead.
Revelation 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;

Revelation 1:5 "And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood".

question time. is this Letter from three persons or one person.

From "HIM", which is, and which was, and which is to come, is this the one whom you calls "Father"?

from the seven Spirits, is this the one whom you calls the Holy Spirit?

From Jesus Christ, ok, this is a give me here. the Son?

how many person is this letter of Revelation from Enoch111, or any trinitarian can answer.

Peace in Christ Jesus, .... I hope.

 

[Windmillcharge]

I don't believe you paid attention to what was said. I said, disregard the doctrine of the said Church. If a person was part of the Mormon or Roman or Seventh Day Adventist church, or Jehovah Witness, and wanted Christ as His Lord and Saviour, and prayed to God for that, how much doctrine are you requiring him to know about Jesus in order to be saved? How much did Jesus require of Peter?

Stranger

You can't separet out the cults doctrine. Every ex cult member I've heard the testimony of, has first questioned the doctrine and then sought answers as to who Jesus is.

It is not what we or I require them to know about Jesus, but what Jesus reveals of himself to them.