Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

[justbyfaith]

God is one spiritual essence having three persons of the same essence. Called Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

So, one God/Lord?

Or, three Gods/Lords?

 

[Dave L]

So, one God/Lord?

Or, three Gods/Lords?

All three persons of the Trinity are fully God. The Father is repeatedly called God (1Co 8:6; 1Pt 1:3). Paul writes, “Blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” (Eph 1:3). The Son is called God on numerous occasions (Jn 1:1; Rm 9:5; Ti 2:13–15; Heb 1:8; 2Pt 1:1). For instance, Thomas boldly calls Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (Jn 20:28). Finally, in the inception of the church, Ananias and Sapphira dropped dead after lying to the Holy Spirit since they had “not lied to people but to God” (Acts 5:1–4).

Tim Barnett. (n.d.). What Is the Trinity?.

 

[Taken]

The creeds are part of Church History.

I would agree, CREEDS are part of man-made churches histories.

I do not find them as a PART of Christ's Church.

And you should not neglect this study.

You directing me, is NOT something I am inclined to consider.

We always depend on theose who are more learned than we are.

I have THEE most excellent Teacher whom I depend on; My Teacher who knows "ALL" things.

That's why people go to church.

My Teacher gives WARNINGS concerning man-made churches.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[justbyfaith]

“God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”” (John 4:24) (HCSB)

Jhn 4:23, But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
Jhn 4:24, God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


Eph 4:4, There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;


Jhn 7:39, (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


Col 1:27, To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

1Jo 5:12, He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

 

[justbyfaith]

All three persons of the Trinity are fully God. The Father is repeatedly called God (1Co 8:6; 1Pt 1:3). Paul writes, “Blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ” (Eph 1:3). The Son is called God on numerous occasions (Jn 1:1; Rm 9:5; Ti 2:13–15; Heb 1:8; 2Pt 1:1). For instance, Thomas boldly calls Jesus, “My Lord and my God” (Jn 20:28). Finally, in the inception of the church, Ananias and Sapphira dropped dead after lying to the Holy Spirit since they had “not lied to people but to God” (Acts 5:1–4).

Tim Barnett. (n.d.). What Is the Trinity?.

So, three Gods/Lords; or three Persons called God/Lord...am I correct in saying this is your assessment?

 

[Taken]

Is ignorance a virtue?

Did someone suggest such a thing to you?
If so, why not ask them if they think ignorance is a virtue?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[amadeus]

@justbyfaith

amadeus said: ↑
Did you not read where I said that I had read them?
@Dave L has the tendency to ignore things like that so that he can make blanket condemning statements to people over things that he doesn't understand.

Sometimes I guess people read without understanding because they are already wrapped up [tied up?] in their own set of doctrines or beliefs and are unable to clear the way even for God. God does speak through us, sometimes to ourselves and sometimes to others. We need to be always listening to Him. Do we not hear His voice?

 

[justbyfaith]

Is @Dave L really doing that?

Absolutely not...he has given absolutely no Bible and has not defined the Trinity as he understands it to any of us with any kind of biblical support...he sits in judgment of the biblical understanding others have given and refuses to show forth what is the understanding of the Trinity that he believes God has given him...

He stands aloof judging the doctrine of others but will not declare what he believes is the truth of the matter, so that his own doctrine might be likewise judged...this is dissimulation.

 

[farouk]

Absolutely not...he has given absolutely no Bible and has not defined the Trinity as he understands it to any of us...he sits in judgment of the biblical understanding others have given and refuses to show forth what is the understanding of the Trinity that he believes God has given him...

He stands aloof judging the doctrine of others but will not declare what he believes is the truth of the matter, so that his own doctrine might be likewise judged...this is dissimulation.

Aren't you being somewhat severe?

 

[Taken]

Yes, but is history to be avoided?

Why do you avoid revealing...Scriptural references to your three points...
(Son is not...
(Father is not...
(Holy Spirit is not...

?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[justbyfaith]

Aren't you being somewhat severe?

Not really...the man has judged my salvation and has also accused me of having the spirit of antichrist....which is an impossibility because if we do what it takes to obtain a fish from the Lord, He is not going to give us a serpent; and if we do what it takes to receive an egg, He will not give us a scorpion. And Act 2:38, Act 2:39 sets forth a conditional promise wherein if we fulfill the condition the Holy Ghost is absolutely promised...so God did not give me the spirit of antichrist when I did what it takes to receive the Holy Ghost, now, did He?

 

[amadeus]

Why are you more like Islam in your idea about God than Christianity?

Perhaps according to your definition of Christianity, as I certainly don't follow the Christianity defined by many people by they way they practice it. By definition I don't mean 'dictionary wise' but 'action wise' according to the example Jesus set when he walked on planet Earth about 2,000 years ago.

 

[justbyfaith]

2Co 3:17, Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

1Co 12:3, Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

my reply to #310.

For clarification, see post #3 (Trinity II)

 

[101G]

(Word, Son)...that you objected to:

John 1
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

first thanks for the reply, second, lets see what the bible say.
Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high".

now, are you going to believe God own word, or man word?

PICJAG.

 

[101G]

It is both the same Spirit, and it is a distinct Spirit from the 1st.

First thanks for the reply, second,
Distinct: 1. recognizably different in nature from something else of a similar type. 2. readily distinguishable by the senses.
then you said as your answer,

How, you ask...

The Father inhabiteth eternity; but He became a Man, who died and gave up His Spirit back to the One who inhabiteth eternity.

The One who inhabiteth eternity dwells throughout eternity and cannot vacate it, even in descending to become a Man. This is the Father, the 1st Person of the Trinity, the one Spirit.

ok, Justbyfaith, how is they the same Spirit, and yet distinct? if the Spirit came from the Father and the SAME Spirit went back to the Father how is it a distinct Spirit from the 1st?
for distinct states, "recognizably different in nature from something else of a similar type"

and Philippians 2:6 states, "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God".
Form here is "NATURE", and Philippians 2:6 also states his Spirit is "EQUAL" with God hence the SAME Spirit.

do you want to expound futher?

 

[101G]

Disagree. God is the author, men do the writing.

thanks for the reply, but I must disagree with your disagrement, and here's why. man cannot lift a finger if it was not for God, supportive scripture,
Acts 17:28 "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

see taken, you can't get out of bed in the morningds unless God allows it. you and I have NO POWER, if God withdraw his Spirit from us we fall down as rag dolls.

so I cannot agree with your assessment.


2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness
First the OT,
2 Peter 1:20 "Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

2 Peter 1:21 "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost".

And that SAME Holy Ghost move men today to write or speak.
1 Peter 1:12 "Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into".

so both assessment are rejected.

PICJAG

 

[Taken]

first thanks for the reply, second, lets see what the bible say.
Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high".

now, are you going to believe God own word, or man word?

PICJAG.

Am I going to believe Gods own word?
Already do.

As well already trust Gods understanding, God is not a "HUMAN", person.

Pay attention to what human men say...
God this person, God that person, AND what follows is a all of a sudden....
God IS a "human" person....and the math equations...100% human...and "all of a sudden God "HAS" a human nature".

When the fact IS God is Spirit, Unchanging, DOES NOT BECOME "the Created" (just as the Created DO NOT BECOME GOD), and is fully aware of the "human nature" He created IN mankind.

Jesus IS the EXPRESS IMAGE of God
But do not FORGET....

Heb 10
[5] ...a body hast thou prepared me:

Phil 2
...took upon him the form of a servant,
...in the likeness of men:

John 5
[37] ...Ye have ...(not)seen his shape.

1 John 3 teaches "IF" a man BECOMES a "son of God"....that man...SHALL be in "HIS LIKENESS" and...

1 John 3
[2] ...shall see him as he is.

The Creator does not BECOME the Created.
The Created do not BECOME God.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

thanks for the reply, but I must disagree with your disagreement

and here's why.

man cannot lift a finger if it was not for God,

Okay, that is fine you disagree with ^ THAT.

But those are YOUR WORDS, NOT MINE.
I said no such thing.

see taken, you can't get out of bed in the morningds unless God allows it. you and I have NO POWER, if God withdraw his Spirit from us we fall down as rag dolls.

You are deflecting from what I DID SAY, and expounding on what YOU SAID, and then DISAGREED WITH.

I SAID God is the AUTHOR, men do the writing...

Men DO the Writing by and through the direction and AUTHORITY of God Himself.

Scriptural Support...FOR WHAT "I" actually SAID....(not what you said "implying it was my words)

Heb 12
[2] Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;

EX 17
[14] And the LORD said unto Moses, Write ..

Num 5
[23] And the priest shall write ...

Jer 36
[27] Then the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, after that the king had burned the roll, and the words which Baruch wrote at the mouth of Jeremiah, saying,
[28] Take thee again another roll, and write in it all the former words that were in the first roll, which Jehoiakim the king of Judah hath burned.
[32}Then took Jeremiah another roll, and gave it to Baruch the scribe, the son of Neriah; who wrote therein from the mouth of Jeremiah all the words of the book which Jehoiakim king of Judah had burned in the fire: and there were added besides unto them many like words.

so I cannot agree with your assessment.

Well I do not agree with your implication that what YOU SAID, had anything remotely to do with What I said.

Your disagreement is with what YOU said.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[justbyfaith]

distinct:

1. distinct. See more.
2. distinct - Dictionary Definition : Vocabulary.com
   The World's Fastest Dictionary : Vocabulary.com something is distinct, it is easily identifiable or set apart from others of its kind.

The Holy Spirit is distinct from the Father in that He is another of the same kind (and this language doesn't really cut it: though the following language does); being the same Spirit as the Father but having behind Him the experiential knowledge of having been human; and also existing side-by-side with the Father in eternity: in that God is an eternal being and therefore past, present, and future do not directly apply; but that, for lack of better terminology, the Father is the Holy Spirit's "past".

re #315.

 

[justbyfaith]

The Creator does not BECOME the Created.

I beg to differ:

Rom 1:3, Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Isa 45:11, Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.