RAPTURE....DENIERS

[Dave L]

Dave...try being honest and stop speaking your crap for other people.

You do this over and over and over and it does nothing but reveal you are a Fabricator.

You are venting. Not backing your claims with scripture.

 

[bbyrd009]

No one has ever gone up to heaven but He Who came down from it, the Son of Man

You can quote this ad infinitum, but you have no clue about what it really says.

Ah. What does it really say, Enoch?

 

[bbyrd009]

It does not have to be YOUR TRUTH...but it is MY TRUTH.

well c'mon tho, a truth you had to engineer yourself, what good is that, Taken?
Why not just add "with the evidence of SiT" to the end of Acts 2:38 or something?
santa claus was once your truth too, right?

you seem quite good hearted to me Taken, let me at least suggest that Truth can survive all arrows aimed at it, ok, and invites all comers to give It their best shot. ...you will see Him come down the same way you saw Him go up, Taken, and that is an undisputable truth I guess. See how I didn't have to add anything or anything? At worst I maybe did you a dis-service, dulled the point a little, omitting Galilean, why do you stand there looking up into the sky, see.

but i'll say that you can keep finding santa claus in Scripture if that is what you seek, too, ok.
best of luck to you either way ok

 

[Taken]

well c'mon tho, a truth you had to engineer yourself, what good is that, Taken?

Well that is not correct.
I do not "engineer" and "create" my own Truths.

The TRUTHS are IN SCRIPTURE....

I simply "ACCEPT and APPLY" TO ME Biblical Truths THAT DO APPLY TO Me.

You can do the SAME...

If you are a Jew, a man, married....you can look up EVERY Scripture about a Married Jewish man....and APPLY those truths to YOU.....or not....THAT is YOUR choice.

What ever you choose, becomes YOUR OWN TRUTH.

Why not just add "with the evidence of SiT" to the end of Acts 2:38 or something?
santa claus was once your truth too, right?

IF YOU have a problem with ANYTHING I have claimed, AS MY TRUTH....you can identified what I HAVE claimed as my Truth, and reveal any evidence to the Contrary.

you seem quite good hearted to me Taken, let me at least suggest that Truth can survive all arrows aimed at it, ok, and invites all comers to give It their best shot. ...

you will see Him come down the same way you saw Him go up,

Let me correct you.
1) I did NOT SEE Him "come" down....NO ONE did.
2) NOT ME, but Some Men witnessed Jesus "rising UP" and lost sight of Him, in the Clouds.
3) ALL Eyes shall SEE Him, Descend.
4) I shall not BE ON THE EARTH, watching Him descend from the Clouds to the Earth...
5) I shall BE Descending WITH Him.
6) The Men ON the Earth who shall observed Jesus' Descending from the Clouds....will be WAIL when they SEE Him.

Do you know what WAIL means?
It is a cry of GRIEF, PAIN, ANGER...

That does NOT APPLY TO ME.
I shall not be ON the earth, see Him descending DOWN to Earth and Crying in Grief, pain or anger.

Rev 1 [7] Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and "they also" which pierced him: and all kindreds "of" the earth "shall wail" because of him. Even so, Amen.

IF YOUR TRUTH IS....you shall be ON the Earth, and "OF" the earth, and wail in grief, and pain and anger to see Him....
Then that would apply to you....
but it doesn't apply to me.

At worst I maybe did you a dis-service, dulled the point a little, omitting Galilean, why do you stand there looking up into the sky, see.

I didn't bring up those points. Nor commented on them.

No matter to me. I don't have authority to dictate what you must bring up, talk about, or comment on....and visa versa.

but i'll say that you can keep finding santa claus

KEEP FINDING? Rather presumptious on your part, since I have never claimed such a thing, and thus totally irrelevant.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[bbyrd009]

Christ's Church being caught up to the Lord in the Clouds, Above the Earth;

Capitalizing the Part that You Had to Add does not make it Truth tho, ok

Well that is not correct. I do not "engineer" and "create" my own Truths.

The TRUTHS are IN SCRIPTURE

so then Quote "Christ's Church being caught up to the Lord in the Clouds, Above the Earth" and i'll apologize, my mistake I guess

 

[CoreIssue]

Jesus says Israel's restoration takes place in the New Heavens and earth, not before.

Said where?

 

[Dave L]

Said where?

Many think God’s restoration of Israel happens 7 years after the rapture in a 1000 year long millennium. But this has several difficulties. One, nobody but the Father knows the time for Israel’s restoration.

“When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.” (Acts 1:6–7)

The single event which none but the Father knows the time of is the resurrection on the last day. And if we consider believers in Christ as biblical Israel, the resurrection speaks of Israel’s restoration into the New Heavens and earth.

Acts also places this on the last day.

“Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.” (Acts 3:19–21)

And making sure this refers to the last day and end of the world, Matthew says;

“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.” (Matthew 24:35–36)

So while many look for a physical 1000 yearlong kingdom in this evil world, God’s restoration of Israel speaks of the new heavens and earth coming about on the last day when as Peter says;

“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.” (2 Peter 3:10–13)

 

[CoreIssue]

Many think God’s restoration of Israel happens 7 years after the rapture in a 1000 year long millennium. But this has several difficulties. One, nobody but the Father knows the time for Israel’s restoration.

“When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.” (Acts 1:6–7)

Physical nation restore 1948. Believing nations seven years after the rapture at the second coming.

 

[Dave L]

Physical nation restore 1948. Believing nations seven years after the rapture at the second coming.

When did God ever restore Israel to the land without them first repenting? This is not biblical Israel and not a fulfillment of prophecy.

 

[Taken]

so then Quote "Christ's Church being caught up to the Lord in the Clouds, Above the Earth" and i'll apologize, my mistake I guess

I will have to presume, you agree that Christ's Church ARE those
WHO...
believe in God in Heaven & Christ Jesus
WHO...
Have asked for forgiveness.
WHO...
Have confessed their belief
WHO...
Agreed to being crucified with Christ..
....
( the soul saving, spirit quickening, living in Christ....etc. etc)

IF you agree Christ's Church ARE THOSE "IN" Christ...then it is primarily...

The Catching UP off the earth to the clouds, to the air...is revealed in:

1 Thes 4
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Revelations reveals an endtime prophecy...
By whom and to whom the prophecy is given is in Rev 1.

Rev continues with specific things John is to tell the Chruches.

Rev then reveals John is called up hither to SEE the future that shall unfold.

Remembering John himself was IN Christ, ie a member of Christ's Church.

John sees things that shall happen IN Heaven, and things that shall happen ON Earth.

The beginning of the THINGS that affect the EARTH, begin....

WHEN...SEALS are opened.
continue
WHEN...TRUMPETS are sounded.
Continue
WHEN...VIALS/BOWLS are poured out.

Those things are God SEPARATING THINGS, that have BECOME "DIVIDED".

Men become DIVIDED, when they become "IN" Christ.
THEY ARE "DIVIDED" from men who are NOT "IN" Chirst.

Which BTW, Jesus plainly taught was His intention when He came to earth.

Luke 12
[51] Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

Gods PLAN is to EFFECT the DIVISION of MEN....into a Final SEPARATION....and that is revealed in Revelations....the last of the men being divided WITH God & Christ and WITHOUT God & Christ.

A man ALREADY DIVIDED, and IN Christ. is already prepared to be REDEEMED.

And Just as John was called UP to observe the futher...He was NOT ON EARTH..the same applies to every man IN Christ.

There is NO PURPOSE for a man IN CHRIST to BE ON EARTH....suffering the wrath of the Lamb or the wrath of God....AND specifically Scripture teaches...a man IN Christ is NOT SUBJECT to "WRATH".

1 Thes 5:
[9] For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Rev 4
[1] After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.

The beginning of wrath, woes, and Gods Tribuation upon the Earth...

Rev 6
[1] And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

This is just brief...but the Big Picture is who will BE WHERE....and WHY.

My belief is based on a whole series of teaching that apply to Christ's Church.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[CoreIssue]

When did God ever restore Israel to the land without them first repenting? This is not biblical Israel and not a fulfillment of prophecy.

They repent of the second coming.

 

[bbyrd009]

My belief is based on a whole series of teaching that apply to Christ's Church.

your belief is based upon false assumptions and is a lie wadr, as your "helping" of Scripture indicates

 

[Dave L]

They repent of the second coming.

They are not biblical Israel. Jesus and the Church are. The unbelievers are gentiles who call themselves Israel and Jews. But when Jesus abolished circumcision, nothing remained to make one a physical Jew in the Biblical sense.

 

[CoreIssue]

They are not biblical Israel. Jesus and the Church are. The unbelievers are gentiles who call themselves Israel and Jews. But when Jesus abolished circumcision, nothing remained to make one a physical Jew in the Biblical sense.

Ephesians 3:6 New International Version (NIV)
6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

Co-heirs, not the same heir.

 

[Enoch111]

Co-heirs, not the same heir.

Actually Christians are called "heirs of God" as well as joint-heirs with Christ". There is no conflict or contradiction in that.

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (Rom 8:17)

 

[Enoch111]

When did God ever restore Israel to the land without them first repenting?

What happened in 1948 is not what God had in mind when He said that He will restore the land to Israel. There will definitely be mourning and repentance first, as well as a purging and a judgment.

At the same time, even though the Zionists founded the nation-state of Israel in unbelief, that was a part of God's overall plan for the redemption and restoration of Israel and the land. Everything will be addressed AFTER the second coming of Christ.

 

[CoreIssue]

Actually Christians are called "heirs of God" as well as joint-heirs with Christ". There is no conflict or contradiction in that.

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. (Rom 8:17)

And coheirs in the body of Christ with Israel. Meaning each is an heir, separately and jointly in the body of Christ.

 

[CoreIssue]

What happened in 1948 is not what God had in mind when He said that He will restore the land to Israel. There will definitely be mourning and repentance first, as well as a purging and a judgment.

At the same time, even though the Zionists founded the nation-state of Israel in unbelief, that was a part of God's overall plan for the redemption and restoration of Israel and the land. Everything will be addressed AFTER the second coming of Christ.

Matthew 24:32 New International Version (NIV)
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near.

Israel has been in this condition since 1948.

The prophecy says when you see the nation of Israel restored the second coming is soon.

So not everything will be addressed after the second coming. They have the nation back but will not repent until the second coming.

I said restored as a nation, not they gained all the prophesied land in 1948.

He did not say he would give all the land to Israel in 1948 nor did I. Especially when restore means to get back what was lost when Israel today has never had all the land prophesied to it.

 

[Taken]

your belief is based upon false assumptions and is a lie wadr, as your "helping" of Scripture indicates

Please give your Scriptural evidence of WHERE you will be, WHOM you will be with, WHAT you will be seeing, and WHEN and WHY.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Dave L]

What happened in 1948 is not what God had in mind when He said that He will restore the land to Israel. There will definitely be mourning and repentance first, as well as a purging and a judgment.

At the same time, even though the Zionists founded the nation-state of Israel in unbelief, that was a part of God's overall plan for the redemption and restoration of Israel and the land. Everything will be addressed AFTER the second coming of Christ.

Today's Jews and Israel are gentiles having zero claim to the land. All of the promises are yes in Jesus. When God abolished circumcision, nothing remained to make one a physical biblical Jew or member of physical Israel. And the times of the gentiles remain until the end of the world as we are to preach the gospel to them until then. Only those who accept Jesus are grafted into Israel (Jesus) and are biblical Israel.