D
Dave L
Guest
If you decide your salvation you are good for doing so. And you rob God of his glory and apply it to yourself. When in scripture, you cannot believe unless God gives you the Holy Spirit of which faith is a fruit.
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If you decide your salvation you are good for doing so. And you rob God of his glory and apply it to yourself. When in scripture, you cannot believe unless God gives you the Holy Spirit of which faith is a fruit.
No one robs God of His glory by responding to the Gospel in faith. Quite the opposite. And faith as a fruit of the Spirit is NOT the same as saving faith.If you decide your salvation you are good for doing so. And you rob God of his glory and apply it to yourself. When in scripture, you cannot believe unless God gives you the Holy Spirit of which faith is a fruit.
I don't think so...If you decide your salvation you are good for doing so.
That in itself is a misleading statement produced by the *Ministry of Disinformation*. I love the way you enlarge and bold the quotations from the corrupt NIV, as if that will add value or authority to one of the worst Bible translations to appear.
Faith is a spiritual gift given to those who are ALREADY SAVED. But saving faith is generated by the preaching of the Gospel (also called the Word of God), which is the power of God unto salvation (Rom 1:16). The whole tenor of Romans 10 leads to this statement: So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. (v 17)Faith is a gift of God too.
Is salvation a supernatural act of God? Or is it a natural act of man? If you meet any conditions to save yourself, it is a work of the flesh and therefore sinful. Scripture teaches that salvation is a miracle resurrection from the dead of the human spirit. And an infilling of the Holy Spirit.I don't think so...
A person may decide to receive Christ out of entirely selfish motives...because they do not want to go to hell, for example.
If for other reasons a person comes to Christ (because they experience God's love coming from Christians, or because they become convinced intellectually that the gospel is true), even that is not something that is in itself good in the heart of the person who receives. They simply become convinced of the truth because the evidence is there. This does not necessarily indicate goodness in the heart of the person who becomes convinced.
Also, as concerning surrender to the Lordship of Christ, I am not denying that there is a drawing effect that must take place for a person to make that decision. Perhaps faith comes first and then surrender; but that salvation is there in the surrender of the heart to Christ. In such a case it is not faith that saves; even though the Bible clearly teaches that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand.
Perhaps it is only a faith that becomes fully matured that even has the power to save anyone.
It goes back to whether a person is saved by grace through faith so that they can have faith...the reality of the matter is that they already have faith, and it is that which saved them!
I would postulate that it is only a living faith that saves...and that such a faith always includes surrender to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.
So, perhaps a person can have faith that doesn't save them, or that they can be saved before they ever have faith in the Lord...since as @Dave L contends, faith comes after salvation and not before. And if that is the case, I can have salvation without faith in Jesus...
Strange brew indeed...
Exactly; this is why we need the vital, quickening power of the Holy Spirit in the new birth (Ephesians 2.5; John 3).Scripture teaches we are dead in trespasses and sins. Paul says the natural man cannot discern the things of God. So we are helplessly lost. In this state the flesh is all we have to work with. And it can do nothing but sin. Unless God raises our spirit from the dead, we cannot believe in any true sense. The flesh only believes in a false Christ.
Herein is the force of "Ye must be born again", I think.Is salvation a supernatural act of God? Or is it a natural act of man? If you meet any conditions to save yourself, it is a work of the flesh and therefore sinful. Scripture teaches that salvation is a miracle resurrection from the dead of the human spirit. And an infilling of the Holy Spirit.
Finney and Billy preached "decisional regeneration". Sort of an evangelical version of "Baptismal Regeneration". People were no doubt saved but confused not realizing they already believed (were saved according to Jesus) or they would not have "decided to believe". So it was the devil's way of focusing their faith on their faith, instead of on Christ.Herein is the force of "Ye must be born again", I think.
In some ways Billy Graham's book title: 'How to be Born Again' is slightly a misnomer; while I don't doubt there are useful ideas in the book, yet in a sense it's not something we "do"; it's not a meritorious, human work. It required complete dependence on God, through grace, by His Spirit.
I wish so called evangelicals would focus on human responsibility and God's sovereignty, rather than on 'decisionism'...Finney and Billy preached "decisional regeneration". Sort of an evangelical version of "Baptismal Regeneration". People were no doubt saved but confused not realizing they already believed (were saved according to Jesus) or they would not have "decided to believe". So it was the devil's way of focusing their faith on their faith, instead of on Christ.
You meet the condition that the Lord prescribes as the way that we receive the gift of salvation; and then the Lord takes you the rest of the way.Is salvation a supernatural act of God? Or is it a natural act of man? If you meet any conditions to save yourself, it is a work of the flesh and therefore sinful. Scripture teaches that salvation is a miracle resurrection from the dead of the human spirit. And an infilling of the Holy Spirit.
All very true. But when the Gospel is preached to those who are not saved, the only thing that matters is preaching Christ and Him crucified. Preaching Calvinistic nonsense is not preaching the Gospel, and the Bible confirms that. Here is what sinners need to hear:It required complete dependence on God, through grace, by His Spirit.
There are no conditions strapped to salvation. You are reading conditions into the texts. And turning the gospel into law, and turning salvation by grace into salvation by works.You meet the condition that the Lord prescribes as the way that we receive the gift of salvation; and then the Lord takes you the rest of the way.
Otherwise, those who have met those conditions cannot have the assurance of salvation that the Lord wants for them; because there is always the nagging doubt in the back of their mind: what if I am not one of His elect? Then it does not matter that I called on the name of the Lord because God did not choose me and therefore I am rejected even though I did what the Lord told me to do in order to be saved.
This is not our Lord.
The scripture declares:
Jhn 6:37, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Rom 10:8, But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9, That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom 10:10, For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11, For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:12, For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Now you cannot tell me that these promises are not true and that if I come to Jesus, calling on His name, that I will not immediately be saved, because of some nonsense that I had to be saved before that or my salvation isn't valid.
These are promises of scripture.
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2Pe 1:3, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath calleus to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4, Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
Heb 11:33, Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,
2Co 1:20, For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
Rom 4:20, He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
Rom 4:21, And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
Rom 4:22, And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
Where did you come up with is fantasy? Repentance and faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption are essential conditions for salvation. Both are COMMANDED by God.There are no conditions strapped to salvation.
Here's the proper order of salvation. New Birth, Faithfulness built into the new nature. Faith from hearing the Word, repentance leading to the fullness of the Holy Spirit, baptism. The flesh can only have sinful human faith and any response to any gospel is an act of self gratification and sinful motive.Where did you come up with is fantasy? Repentance and faith in Christ and His finished work of redemption are essential conditions for salvation. Both are COMMANDED by God.
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: (Acts 17:30)
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. (1 John 3:23)
And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but have shewed you, and have taught you publickly, and from house to house, Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 20:20,21)
What was the first word in the preaching of John the Baptist, Christ, and the apostle Peter? REPENT. So you need to repent of all your false doctrine and bizarre notions.
No one would be saved on this basis, so it is purely a straw man.The flesh can only have sinful human faith and any response to any gospel is an act of self gratification and sinful motive.