Agnostic at heart

[FatalMoves]

If you were born into a large room where no one had ever been outside or seen outside, no one inside could prove the existence of God, not scientists, not scholars, no one. In this same way the only way anyone can have proof or knowledge of God's existence, is if the information comes from the outside in (so to speak). That is what the Bible is. It is a written record and the witness of many who have heard directly from God, who know for certain of His existence.

I am such a witness.

We either hear their report and witness and believe it, or we do not. If we do, God then decides whether or not to add to that person the same personal encounter, or not. But rest assured, just as you have read, He esteems those who have not seen but believe greater than those whom have seen.

The real question though, is not whether or not there is a God. But rather, am I merely organic, or eternal? If eternal...then it is best to get to know Him by all means.

I think it would be a mistake to rely on what other people say about something unless they have evidence. It is very dangerous for anyone (I think) to form opinions on something so important as God just because they ssy so.

 

[aspen]

I think it would be a mistake to rely on what other people say about something unless they have evidence. It is very dangerous for anyone (I think) to form opinions on something so important as God just because they ssy so.

But I am right! Why isn’t your God stuff fixed?

 

[Nancy]

I could never get my head around why the God of the Bible needed our love and praise, and be complete in the same sense. Why does he need anything from us. If it is for him in some way then he lacks something. If it is for us, then is that not a bit selfish.

I have often wondered at that and, all I can come up with is fellowship...maybe loneliness is part of His image/character? Total speculation here and most likely way off base, lol. Although I do not believe God "needs" anything at all from us but, He desires the acknowledgment of our need for Him. Totally my own opinion here.

 

[FatalMoves]

But I am right! Why isn’t your God stuff fixed?

What do you mean "My God stuff fixed"

 

[FatalMoves]

I have often wondered at that and, all I can come up with is fellowship...maybe loneliness is part of His image/character? Total speculation here and most likely way off base, lol. Although I do not believe God "needs" anything at all from us but, He desires the acknowledgment of our need for Him. Totally my own opinion here.

Desire is still a need.

 

[aspen]

What do you mean "My God stuff fixed"

It was a joke, man!

 

[FatalMoves]

It was a joke, man!

Man indeed, another one that flew over my head.

 

[Nancy]

Desire is still a need.

I must disagree here...to me they are miles apart.

 

[FatalMoves]

I must disagree here...to me they are miles apart.

Hmm, I think I was saying "We feel desire for things we want or need"

 

[APAK]

Hmm, I think I was saying "We feel desire for things we want or need"

As a human being the carnal mind and the un-regenerated heart is always limited by natural desires that can be 'real' needs. This is why we do not have truly free-will to act, and never shall in this soul. We are slaves to it. We cannot get over our natural desires. They are always there. The only way we can curb to a degree this natural bias is becoming converted to a child of God. We need help. The help of God’s presence in our heart. Then we become a slave to the ways of God as becoming Christ-like. We trade our natural desires to the desires of God. We are either slaves to the natural desires that produce sin or slaves to God’s will that is holy and sinless.

God also has desires and needs to restore imperfection to purity in creation. He has set a plan in motion before time began. We are key to this restoration. God is truly free because what he desires never comes back empty-handed. A concept that cannot be fully realized as a human being.

Bless you,

APAK

 

[FatalMoves]

As a human being the carnal mind and the un-regenerated heart is always limited by natural desires that can be 'real' needs. This is why we do not have truly free-will to act, and never shall in this soul. We are slaves to it. We cannot get over our natural desires. They are always there. The only way we can curb to a degree this natural bias is becoming converted to a child of God. We need help. The help of God’s presence in our heart. Then we become a slave to the ways of God as becoming Christ-like. We trade our natural desires to the desires of God. We are either slaves to the natural desires that produce sin or slaves to God’s will that is holy and sinless.

God also has desires and needs to restore imperfection to purity in creation. He has set a plan in motion before time began. We are key to this restoration. God is truly free because what he desires never comes back empty-handed. A concept that cannot be fully realized as a human being.

Bless you,

APAK

In my experience desires remain regardless of belief or non belief. If it is required of us to become like the Christ then my question would be "What is being a Christ" what is the Christ in totality?

 

[APAK]

In my experience desires remain regardless of belief or non belief. If it is required of us to become like the Christ then my question would be "What is being a Christ" what is the Christ in totality?

Short answer:
Becoming as Christ is the realization of who God really is....Christ thus is the true and perfect image of God. When salvation finally is truly realized in the new spiritual body, we shall know God because of the spirit of Christ in us. This is the true Christian goal and what God also desires as his goal for us. Harmony in heaven and the kingdom.

APAK

 

[FatalMoves]

Short answer:
Becoming as Christ is the realization of who God really is....Christ thus is the true and perfect image of God. When salvation finally is truly realized in the new spiritual body, we shall know God because of the spirit of Christ in us. This is the true Christian goal and what God also desires as his goal for us. Harmony in heaven and the kingdom.

APAK

I can see issues with your theology in this post.

1. God of the Bible makes it clear from the very beginning that he abhors worship of images. Also God refers to himself as spirit and he has no name that we can fathom.

2. Harmony in heaven?

 

[APAK]

I can see issues with your theology in this post.

1. God of the Bible makes it clear from the very beginning that he abhors worship of images. Also God refers to himself as spirit and he has no name that we can fathom.

2. Harmony in heaven?

Well you have to come to understand that Jesus the Christ is not an idol. He is the Son of God and represents his true image in understanding and thought, and even action today. He is never considered an idol as the true image of God per scripture. He is the only one of a kind. Anyone one else that claims to be his true image is an idol indeed.

And I do agree that God is spirit and his name as in his true meaning and understanding in this world is unfathomable indeed. No objections there.

 

[FatalMoves]

Well you have to come to understand that Jesus the Christ is not an idol. He is the Son of God and represents his true image in understanding and thought, and even action today. He is never considered an idol as the true image of God per scripture. He is the only one of a kind. Anyone one else that claims to be his true image is an idol indeed.

And I do agree that God is spirit and his name as in his true meaning and understanding in this world is unfathomable indeed. No objections there.

Well I think that wraps that all up, good day to you and happy trails. I've got food on my mind and I just can't get the pizza's and burgers to go away.

 

[APAK]

@FatalMoves thanks for the conversation. I soon will sign off myself.

Hope to hear from you later...anytime mate..just give me some more questions...fire away

Bless you,

APAK

 

[ScottA]

I think it would be a mistake to rely on what other people say about something unless they have evidence. It is very dangerous for anyone (I think) to form opinions on something so important as God just because they ssy so.

Except that is not His m. o.. It doesn't work that way.

On the contrary, God has revealed and does reveal Himself corporately through individuals, and individually through individuals. Consensus means nothing. The only proof He has made available is experiencing Him in person. His rules. He's God.

Without God making Himself known to an individual, the best that can be surmised according to the historically accepted "establishment of fact", is that His method or revealing the truth...has been consistent all through the ages.

 

[FatalMoves]

Except that is not His m. o.. It doesn't work that way.

On the contrary, God has revealed and does reveal Himself corporately through individuals, and individually through individuals. Consensus means nothing. The only proof He has made available is experiencing Him in person. His rules. He's God.

Without God making Himself known to an individual, the best that can be surmised according to the historically accepted "establishment of fact", is that His method or revealing the truth...has been consistent all through the ages.

You're defending something that is contrary to reason and common sense when validating a claim.

 

[ScottA]

You're defending something that is contrary to reason and common sense when validating a claim.

That is the way of men...not God. Your logic is all upside down and backwards. If you want to know and understand God...it is you who will have to change. He does not.

 

[FatalMoves]

That is the way of men...not God. Your logic is all upside down and backwards. If you want to know and understand God...it is you who will have to change. He does not.

There's no way of anything, we are all in the same spot. You can't think that reason and logic does not apply when validating truth claims. You're suggesting I turn off my thinking brain (Which was given to me) to decide what's real or not.