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Agnostic at heart

Discussion in 'Community Welcome Center' started by FatalMoves, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. FatalMoves

    FatalMoves Active Member

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    I have never known if God is real or not, and I've never had an encounter with the great divine. I've tried my best to believe in Jesus years ago, but I never got closer to answering that question. I've read the bible many times, but still I have found nothing that proves or disproves God.
     
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  2. Windmillcharge

    Windmillcharge Well-Known Member

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    Rather than debate the existence of God, I would rather ask how you account for Jesus's life, death and resurrection?
     
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  3. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    personally I was mostly swayed by the physicists who started as Atheists but then kind of slowly backed away from the idea as the picture got clearer for them. If it's any consolation, there is no judgement for beliefs in the Bible near as I can tell, and believe it or not there is no "believe in Jesus" in the Bible at all I don't think! Every instance of that (in English of course) is revealed to say "faith in Christ" in the original I guess, but Believers want to be Immortal, so "beliefs" is substituted there by our scribes, who all want to be immortal too
    imo
     
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  4. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    You are being honest. Christians believe based on evidence from something that happens to them in their innermost beings. Scripture calls it the New Birth. If you ever experience it, you know for a fact God is who the bible says he is. And the change that comes over you brings happiness and leads you to want more of Christ.
     
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  5. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    The reason why is, the relationship is a 'faith thing' not a "proof" thing.
    It is a heart thing, not a head thing...

    Luke 16-31
    "Then Abraham said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead.’”
     
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  6. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Right off the bat no one can prove the Bible or God to an agnostic or atheist using the Bible.

    It's like when Paul witnessed on the street of idols. He talked to them from where they were and led them to where they should be.

    They deny creation yet science says everything has a beginning and an end. Every effect has an cause.

    So where does matter.space and energy come from? If it's always been there then it has no beginning in defiance of science. It is an effect without a cause in defiance of science.

    By science the walls of Jericho should not have fallen all at once and should have fallen down, not outward and not flat like a road.

    Science says life evolved by chance. Yet statistically the odds are like a lightning bolt striking a junkyard and there being a fully operational B-52 sitting there when the dust clears.

    The Big Bang theory is impossible because the atomic repulsion for gas law increases as molecules get closer to each other, so they can never formed the claimed mass.

    The universe could never have formed because it functions like a highly complex and efficient clock.

    Platypus could not have evolved. Neither could the metamorphosis of moths and butterflies.

    So science proves God.

    God is outside the laws of science since he is the author. So arguments against God for science have no value. You cannot test the creator by his creation.

    There is what's called the leap of faith. People can learn enough to make that leap. I did 58 years ago.

    By pure logic and reasoning there has to be a God.

    In studying many religions for 58 years there is only one I have ever found that withstands every challenge. That is the God of the Bible.
     
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  7. FatalMoves

    FatalMoves Active Member

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    I could ask you the same question about Mithera.
     
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  8. FatalMoves

    FatalMoves Active Member

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    I find it hard following your train of thought.
     
  9. FatalMoves

    FatalMoves Active Member

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    I need more than that Dave, I'm not swayed easy by fuzzy feelings and internal experiences.
     
  10. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

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    Then you will never understand what makes people Christians.
     
  11. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    ya, my bad. The point I meant to make is that most Christians are anxious to believe that believing a certain thing matters, when it does not. Beliefs are not faith iow
     
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  12. FatalMoves

    FatalMoves Active Member

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    It can't be solely a heart thing, or the bible wouldn't say this.

    Jeremiah 17:9 9The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure. Who can understand it?

    Or this

    Hosea 4:6 King James Version (KJV)
    6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.
     
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  13. FatalMoves

    FatalMoves Active Member

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    I understand now.
     
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  14. FatalMoves

    FatalMoves Active Member

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    Science proves how things operate, not what creator is attributed to the sum of it's part's. Even if science could prove there was a creator or prime mover, it still wouldn't be in the business of proving any particular deity.
     
  15. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Well that was a talk around the point.

    What I said demonstrated that reality defies science.

    They cannot explain how the ultimate origin of energy, matter and space operated, how the wall Jericho could fall as it did or how life could possibly exist.
     
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  16. FatalMoves

    FatalMoves Active Member

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    It doesn't defy science, science does not begin by presuming to know everything.
     
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  17. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Well ain't that tough. Should one feel sorry for you or what? I would call that wilful ignorance.
     
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  18. FatalMoves

    FatalMoves Active Member

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    Ignorance is accepting something without question.
     
  19. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    And wilful ignorance is rejecting something in spite of all the evidence.

    You say there is no evidence for the existence of God. Leaving aside the FACT of the Bible itself, and the FACT that there are millions of Christians in this world (and have been since the first century AD), the very fact that Jerusalem exists is evidence for God. God selected Jerusalem around 1,000 B.C. to be the city in which the temple of God would be located, and there is still a Temple Mount in Jerusalem (in spite of the Muslim presence).

    Also the very fact that 2019 is actually 2019 A.D. (Anno Domini = the Year of the Lord) proves that secular dating accepts the historical FACT of the existence of the Lord Jesus Christ on earth.
     
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  20. FatalMoves

    FatalMoves Active Member

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    I said that I've come no closer to proving or disproving God.
     
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