Calvinism is NOT a Cult!

[Mjh29]

Your god basically says, "I am Omnipotent and I am going to put certain people in the lake of fire whether they like it or not. They have no choice in the matter; because I am Omnipotent. And I am going to give some people pleasure in heaven so that their suffering will sting all the worse!

John 3:19
“And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.”

God did not condemn. Man condemns himself because he does not and will not love God. God is Omnipotent; you think He is not? He allows men to go where they want, not put them where they don't. They have a choice; their sin nature restricts them from making it. God does not hold them back, He simply chooses not to push them forwards as the bolt the other way and mock and laugh at Him.

Romans 9

15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.

18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?

20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?

22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

No you're being dishonest again. I've already shown you the context of Romans 5 is to the converted, not the unconverted. Look again at Romans 5:1. It's sadly obvious you do not behave like you're converted yourself.

This is a dishonest attempt to sidestep your clear answer p4t.
The context as you pointed out is those justified and converted are spoken of in this chapter.

 

[justbyfaith]

I am not in disagreement with any of post #320, except the following:

This verse does not at all prove your point.

And where is the Spirit of God? With those same people whom it regenerated. By saying this, logically to be freedom there must also be bondage from which to be freed. And what bondage are men freed from? The bondage of Satan on their wills. Only when the Spirit has worked in and on the heart of a sinner, and freed him from his own sin nature, can one truly be free. That is where the Spirit of the Lord i; with those whom it regenerated by grace through faith

Back to square one.

The fact that the Father's drawing a person to Christ is not exactly the same thing as the Father's giving them to Christ.

When the Father draws a man, it opens the door for him to make a free and unhindered decision for or against Christ.

When that person makes a choice in favour of Christ, the Father gives him to Christ.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

This is a dishonest attempt to sidestep your clear answer p4t.
The context as you pointed out is those justified and converted are spoken of in this chapter.

Yes, that is quite clear and unfortunate. It is milk, not meat. Elementary, not complicated.

 

[justbyfaith]

God did not condemn. Man condemns himself because he does not and will not love God.

Therefore man has a choice in the matter. If not, then God is condemning people for something they can't do anything about.

They have a choice;

That is all I am saying.

God does not hold them back, He simply chooses not to push them forwards as the bolt the other way and mock and laugh at Him.

But he does push others forward for no reason whatsoever. (And evidently those who don't bolt the other way and mock and laugh at him are better than the ones who do: they do not have Total Depravity because they were the elect the moment they were born).

This is a dishonest attempt to sidestep your clear answer p4t.
The context as you pointed out is those justified and converted are spoken of in this chapter.

I will ask again: what does the word "access" mean to you?

 

[justbyfaith]

This is a dishonest attempt to sidestep your clear answer p4t.

What clear answer? his exhortation to "put on my big boy pants?" Thorns and thistles, I say.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

What clear answer? his exhortation to "put on my big boy pants?" Thorns and thistles, I say.

You claimed no one answered Roman's 5:2.....p4t already answered you on it.
Did you not see the answer? The passage is the justified saints who have peace with God.
You are trying to fight against men who are offering you helpful truth.
You have yet to offer a cogent explanation as to why. When pressed you are becoming unraveled offering weak caricatures and strawmen.
Is that what you want, or how about a fresh look at the truth.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Yes, that is quite clear and unfortunate. It is milk, not meat. Elementary, not complicated.

Some of these men over think basic truth to a point where it is almost unrecognizable. After one or two posts, they argue from emotions and feelings and depart further from truth and post almost no scripture.

 

[justbyfaith]

Here is a major reason why I do not believe in Calvinism, if anyone will follow my logic.

I did believe in Irresistible Grace; because love never fails, and the Lord God Omnipotent reigneth (1 Corinthians 13:8 and Revelation 19:6).

This doctrine means that either Limited Atonement is the reality or else Universalism. With Irresistible Grace, if Jesus died for everyone, then Universalism is the reality. Yet Universalsim is false (Matthew 13:41-42, Matthew 13:49-50, Matthew 25:46). Which would indicate that Jesus could not have died for everyone. Yet this is also false (2 Peter 3:9, 1 Timothy 2:4, 1 Timothy 2:6, 1 Timothy 3:9-10, 1 John 2:2, John 3:16-17).

This created an incontrovertible contradiction in the Bible for me. I asked my wife what she thought the solution was: and she said that it had to be that God has given man free will. But free will is out because of the first two verses that I referenced in this post. Unless I somehow misinterpreted those verses to mean something that they don't really mean.

What does the Omnipotence of the Lord mean, and the fact of His love never failing, in light of the fact that there is no middle ground between Universalism and Limited Atonement in the Bible, if Irresistible Grace is a reality...it is one or the other; and biblically it is neither?

The answer is that love will not fail to offer every man a decision in the matter, of whether he will choose to believe or disbelieve concerning what Christ did for them on the Cross. God, being Omnipotent, chose not to force the issue of salvation on anyone, but decided to give every man a free choice in the matter.

The crux of the gospel issue is not that God predetermines salvation; if you make this the crux of the gospel, you do not have the biblical gospel and are in fact preaching a different one; and therefore Paul wrote to let you be accursed and not to try to save you (Galatians 1:6-9, Romans 16:17). The crux of the biblical gospel is as following:

1Co 15:1, Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2, By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3, For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4, And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

In a nutshell, it is this:

Jhn 3:16, For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

 

[justbyfaith]

You claimed no one answered Roman's 5:2.....p4t already answered you on it.
Did you not see the answer? The passage is the justified saints who have peace with God.
You are trying to fight against men who are offering you helpful truth.
You have yet to offer a cogent explanation as to why. When pressed you are becoming unraveled offering weak caricatures and strawmen.
Is that what you want, or how about a fresh look at the truth.

What is your definition of the word "access"?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

What clear answer? his exhortation to "put on my big boy pants?" Thorns and thistles, I say.

You can't even keep who said what straight? However, I agree with Anthony that you need to grow up. You argie and are evasive like a child.

Are you ready to be honest with the Word and admit Romans 5:2 is written to believers? Or, do you have to be right even when theopneusto shows you're incorrect?

Why not own up and admit your misusage? Consider 2 Timothy 2:15.

 

[justbyfaith]

You can't even keep who said what straight? However, I agree with Anthony that you need to grow up. You argie and are evasive like a child.

Are you ready to be honest with the Word and admit Romans 5:2 is written to believers? Or, do you have to be right even when theopneusto shows you're incorrect?

Why not own up and admit your misusage? Consider 2 Timothy 2:15.

What is your definition of the word "access"?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Challenge @justbyfaith

Romans 5:1 shows the context of Scripture to be written to believers. Are you ready to be honest with the Word of God and concede, yes or no?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

What is your definition of the word "access"?

I've already ask you some questions. Answer those and I'll courteously like a man and converted believer answer you. It is up to your character to do likewise.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

I'll be back shortly, LORD willing.

 

[justbyfaith]

You should look into the Greek word prosagoge.

 

[justbyfaith]

I've already ask you some questions. Answer those and I'll courteously like a man and converted believer answer you. It is up to your character to do likewise.

No; I asked you this question a long time ago and you refused to answer. So, now, you answer my question first.

But, if you insist on making me answer your questions first, then you are the one acting like a child. But I will answer them if you reiterate them below; because I have no idea what they are.

 

[justbyfaith]

Show me how Calvinism does not teach that Romans 10:13 should be quoted as "Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord might not be saved."

If you can do that, then I will consider the doctrine more carefully.

Otherwise, I count it as unbiblical and this conversation is basically over.

 

[justbyfaith]

It seems to me that Unconditional Election and Limited Atonement together, teach that a person can call on the name of the Lord for salvation and yet not be saved.

This is in contradiction to

Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

 

[Mjh29]

It seems to me that Unconditional Election and Limited Atonement together, teach that a person can call on the name of the Lord for salvation and yet not be saved.

This is in contradiction to

Rom 10:13, For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.