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Agree...some will be in for a shock when it doesn't happen.
( and they are not prepared to 'stand'. )
Whatever.
I do not "believe in" or expect to see the church zapped out of trouble.
I expect to see God with us through trouble...as He has always promised.
But, more power to your elbow....just keep you eyes on the Lord Himself...not for any escape.
Actual stones.
Stranger
Interesting....so those who are expecting some rapture , stay prepared and keep their nose clean- “so that they are ready to go”....but those of us who expect nothing , walk close to God NOT to get taken out, but BEACUSE Of their LOVE for The FATHER...’just because ‘....
Of course. There is no rapture
I’m not even insisting it must be an angel. My only point is that the text itself is vague; it doesn’t give us the information to make a “positive identification” on the restrainer. So trying to insist it has to be “this” or “that” is forcing something into the text that simply isn’t there. The intent of the text is to tell us what will happen, not the specifics of the who.
I agree. There's a lot of merit in her post.This is an interesting thought. Daniel came into the presence of what I believe is an angel in Daniel 10. It is not Michael, as Michael was said to have came and helped him. He knew Gabriel per Daniel 9:21. So, it must have been an unnamed angel. I got this from another site as I was perusing the web to glean more from your post here. Who is the man in Daniel's vision in Daniel 10?
Then, as you said, in Revelation 20, an angel, unnamed again, was able to bind Satan. Then Michael was able to rebuke Satan when contending for Moses' body in Jude 1:9.
So there is much merit in your post. I am not entirely convinced, as I need to flesh this out some more, but a thought provoking post, indeed.
1 Corinthians 15:50
[50] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
?
Christ is where my hope is, not some doctrine of evangelicals.
I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. I indicated that there will be a temple built before Christ returns. It will be rebuilt and in it one day the anti-christ will set up the abomination of desolation. (Matt. 24:15-16) (Eph. 2:3-4) The Jews will be offering sacrifices which cannot occur without a temple. (Dan. 9:27)
That the Church is the temple of God today, yes. But that is not the temple spoken of here.
Stranger
Where I part ways with dispensationalism is the pre-trib rapture and the separation of Israel(Jews) and the church. Both are one in Christ.
Yes, I see a fulfillment of the engrafting of the Jews and then God dealing with the Jews. However, I don’t think that means they are separate entities, but one ppl in Christ.
It depends on how you read it. On the one hand, He is coming suddenly, like lightning, and that day will not surprise and overtake some people. They will be ready. So pray you will be found worthy to escape that day of testing coming on the whole world to test its people.
On the other hand, the sign of His coming will be seen in the sky and men will mourn, and will cry to the rocks to cover them from Him, which sounds much different than suddenly.
It may sound different because two different timeframes/events are spoken of in different vss.
Will He come from Bozrah with His robes stained red, as one vs says, or will He descend with a shout and gather His elect?
And what of the two reapings spoken of in Rev? Could it have to do with them? Could the first one be suddenly and the second one be for the elect who required more testing to be purified?
It's all very fascinating.
The ones in shock, are not prepared.
And the prepared, are expecting to be lift up above the earth, Because they ARE Saved.
Glory to God,
Taken
Show me one place that explicitly shows the rapture is pre-trib.No they are not. That is the point.
Tribulation is for those NOT believing in God....AND........the Christ Jesus Messiah.
Very few Jews believe in Christ Jesus the Messiah.
They suffer the FIRST part of the Tribulation...
The WRATH OF THE LAMB......precisely because they (majority) DO NOT BELIEVE Jesus is the Christ Messiah.
Men IN Christ Jesus are In the clouds WITH the Lord.
Rev 6 The LAMB opens the SEALS...beginning of the Tribulation.
Rev 6 Wrath of the LAMB 1-5 SEALS Opened
Why will the Wrath of the LAMB come upon those IN Christ?
Not Yet. Who has been teaching the Jews for 2000 + years...to believe in Christ Jesus?
Jews? No
Gentiles? No
The NT? No
God will send to them DURING the tribulation...2 Witnesses and 144,000 JEWS to teach the Jews, and THEN their souls can be saved, risen up to heaven, their spirits quickened, risen up to heaven, and their Bodies killed in the chaos on earth.
Glory to God,
Taken
Show me one place that explicitly shows the rapture is pre-trib.
looking with both eyes there, are you?This event....
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
Will happen at this time....
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. - 2 Thessalonians 2:2-3
1. Falling Away - Which is now occurring
2. Son of Perdition - The revealing of the Anti-Christ
I believe when the Anti-Christ makes his scene (which is not that far away) it is time for the rapture prophecy to come true.
and I for one appreciate you so boldly announcing your vision that will be seen with two eyes, tyI indicated that there will be a temple built before Christ returns.
lots of Jews offering literal sacrifices right now fwiw, not that that is very relevant I guess, strictly a reflection of IRL imoThe Jews will be offering sacrifices which cannot occur without a temple. (Dan. 9:27)
I think it is telling that the rapture is reduced to only one kind of reference from the bible.....to escape this world physically at no cost to ourselves. Religion is escapist by design.
But most of the references to rapture (harpazo) involves walking in the Spirit in Zion while we yet live. Far from being escapist in nature, these verses point to a walk by the same power as Jesus walked in. It involves a spiritual transformation or translation into God's very presence. It is an equipping for miraculous ministry. Yet no one in the church seems interested in this present power that overcomes the world. No one seeks for this resurrection power and testimony.
Why not?
The cost of course.
Religion is about getting the easy free stuff. But where are the followers of Christ...those who are willing to suffer to bring salvation to the world?
?