Why Christians Disagree

[Enoch111]

...but I am open to other answers if the evidence warrants that belief.

You are not open to any evidence since you have already discounted the existing valid evidence. More atheistic baloney.

Even though the Communists of the USSR tried to compel everyone to become atheistic, they failed. And even though Communist China is still on that route, they too have failed. Why? Because Atheism is TOTAL NONSENSE. People have to practice daily self-deception in order to maintain their bogus beliefs.

 

[Vince]

You are not open to any evidence since you have already discounted the existing valid evidence. More atheistic baloney.

I have not discounted it, I have come to the conclusion that it is not sufficient for belief. I don't get to decide what sufficient evidence is for you and you don't get to decide that for me. This is why we have hung juries.

Even though the Communists of the USSR tried to compel everyone to become atheistic, they failed. And even though Communist China is still on that route, they too have failed. Why? Because Atheism is TOTAL NONSENSE. People have to practice daily self-deception in order to maintain their bogus beliefs.

You don't seem to understand atheism today. Most atheists, like myself, don't have a belief. We define atheism as a lack of belief in any gods. We are not making a claim so I don't have a belief to deceive myself with. Wanting and evaluating evidence is how a person keeps from being deceived.

 

[Taken]

I don't know. It could have been a god or it could have been natural processes. I think the evidence points to a natural process but I am open to other answers if the evidence warrants that belief.

I only know of One God who claimed to be the creater and maker.

I know of nothing else that has since created or made such intiicate things, from nothing, or given life to so many living things, or even have claimed to.

Not sure if you are familiar with this Script...

Rom 1
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Are you hesitant to believe the testimonies of men who knew Him in the flesh, who observed His Power to raise the dead, calm a raging sea, walk on water, observed His bodily death and then walked again with Him, turned water into wine, witnessed Him rise from the ground up to the clouds?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Vince]

I only know of One God who claimed to be the creater and maker.

I am pretty sure other peoples gods have claimed this.

I know of nothing else that has since created or made such intiicate things, from nothing, or given life to so many living things, or even have claimed to.

Where is the evidence that a god did these things?

Not sure if you are familiar with this Script...

Rom 1
[20] For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Yes I am familiar. Just because the bible says this does not make it true. How can I know god exists form creation?

Are you hesitant to believe the testimonies of men who knew Him in the flesh, who observed His Power to raise the dead, calm a raging sea, walk on water, observed His bodily death and then walked again with Him, turned water into wine, witnessed Him rise from the ground up to the clouds?

Glory to God,
Taken

Testimonies are believed or not, they are not sufficient evidence for belief in my opinion. There is no evidence to support these testimonies.

 

[Taken]

I am pretty sure other peoples gods have claimed this.

I know of none.

Where is the evidence that a god did these things?

He said so. Others witnessed His claims. And it appears you have eyes to see, the sun, moon, stars, majestic mountains, oceans, rain fall from the sky, might know a little bit about your body....

I highly doubt you can see wind, but can feel it, that you can see smoke and know something is burning whether or not you can see fire, that you can feel your heart pumping blood, but have never seen your heart, you inhale air, but have never seen your lungs...

Why would you believe you have a heart or lungs, if you have never seen them?

Have you ever had a Thought ? Where do you believe that thought comes from? Your mind? Have you ever seen or held a brain?
Explain how a thought comes from your brain....Because seriously, I have held a brain in my hands, and has no writing or script or such idea floating out of it.

Yes I am familiar. Just because the bible says this does not make it true. How can I know god exists form creation?

So, do you think of the Bible as fiction?

I'd like to know, if you think your brain and heart and lungs exist.

Testimonies are believed or not, they are not sufficient evidence for belief in my opinion. There is no evidence to support these testimonies.

And what is the evidence to support, your name is Vince, or you have children, or you are actually the one writing on this forum?

Please answer the posed questions. Tnx.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ScottA]

This is a problem. Wanting others to believe something without evidence. I also have never said I wanted proof.

What is your definition of demand? I am asking if you have some. Now you say that you do have evidence for gods existence but won't show it to me even though I am asking and then blaming me for not seeing the evidence in front of me. Sorry but this is not logical.

What evidence has anyone shown me other than to look at creation or quoted Bible verses that cannot be substantiated? When I was a Christian I thought I had the answer to eternal life. I told everyone I knew about the gospel. If they had questions I would do my best to answer them because I thought it affected their eternity. Why is this not important to you?

I/we don't want you to "believe" something. We're here. You came to us. We have something to share if you care to know the truth. It might please us to have you know the truth, but we are not here to twist your arm. That's it.

Are you not continually demanding evidence, that is to say "proof", by continually going on and on about that being your terms? Of course you are.

But, yes, we/I have told you we have evidence...and spelled it out to you in multiple ways, but you could not process it. But it is not for lack of presenting it to you. A blind person cannot be shown what is right in front of them. The failure is yours.

As for it being important - indeed, it is most important.

 

[Enoch111]

Most atheists, like myself, don't have a belief.

That too is a belief. What you have said in your heart is "I refuse to believe that there are any gods, including the one true God".

That's similar to the Flat Earth Society whose members say within themselves "I refuse to believe that the earth is a globe".

 

[ScottA]

Then where is the evidence? Not proof just sufficient evidence to believe.

This whole evidence line is just a cop out.

People love, trust, and believe in things and other people all the time. But here you are not willing to give the creator of the universe, your maker, what you have undoubtedly given any number of credit card companies.

You deserve nothing.

 

[Stranger]

How?

Didn't I show you. Our faith is the evidence. You are looking for evidence for our faith, but our faith is the evidence because it is given to us from God. (Heb. 11:1)

Stranger

 

[Stranger]

So are you saying that your proof that god exists is that you believe in or have faith in god?

I am not trying to prove to you that God exists. Where did you get that? I am not required to prove to you God exists. I am required to give the gospel to all that I can.

The Christians faith, my faith, is itself a gift from God. We believe. Why? Only because God has opened our eyes. We cannot cease to be believers as our eyes have been opened. This miraculous faith is evidence, for us, not you, of things yet seen by us concerning our God.

Stranger

 

[brakelite]

@Vince if God is who He says He is, the sovereign of the universe, who are you to dictate the terms by which He should make Himself known to you? If God is not the sovereign of the universe, then He's not worth knowing. Make a wooden dog and bow before it . But God has every right to dictate what terms man comes to a knowledge of Him. And they aren't difficult. You don't have to jump through hoops... dive off cliffs... Walk through fire... Give your children as food for a monster...
All you have to do is believe. It is your choice. Evidence or no evidence. You can choose to believe even if you were blind, deaf, and dumb. The claim to a lack of evidence is not a reason for unbelief, it is an excuse.
And yet God has given ample evidence for those willing to accept it. But they also have chosen to accept it. It all comes down to your willingness to believe. It has nothing to do with evidence. Even if a dead man walked into your room right now and told you he came from heaven, worked miracles, described God.... It would still be your choice whether to believe... Or not

 

[Phoneman777]

I am new here. Hope to stay a while.

My question to Christians is why do Christians disagree on so much? I hear Christians say all the time that god speaks to them. If this is true, why would he not say the same thing to each person and clear up the differences in biblical interpretation? It even goes to the core of the gospel, how people are saved.

We disagree because long ago when the Church was first established and filled with strong, faithful Christians who were willing to die rather than disobey their beloved Savior, it was already prophesied that a sinister evil would creep in among the church and take it over, forcing those who remained true to Christ to flee into the remote places of the world while this evil reigned supreme as the pretended "Vicar of Christ". That evil is the papacy. The papacy banned Bible ownership among the common people, outlawed any translations except in the dead language of Latin that only catholic priests were taught, and taught many errors unknown to the teachings of Holy Scripture. This left the Christian world in darkness for over 1,000 years.

The Protestant Reformation arose in the 16th century and the Bible was once again brought back to prominence in the Christian church - but unfortunately, after 1,000 years of nothing but:

• blasphemous papal dogmas like "the pope is God on Earth"
• false doctrines borrowed from paganism like "the wicked burn for all eternity in the flames of hell"
• superstitions which kept the people in fearful bondage to church authority

...the Christian church has never really recovered from having been deprived of God's Word for so long a time. However, one thing we all agree on is perhaps the most crucial component of Bible Christianity:

Romans 2:8-10
2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[Willie T]

The thing about evidence is that it is up to the person reviewing the evidence to make the determination if it is sufficient. No one else can determine that. This is why we have hung juries.

Why was this necessary? Why do Christians call people names use derogatory terms with non believers? I have been called a liar, stupid, goo goo head and now prideful as you have said. The tone by you and others has been confrontational. Why the animosity if what you believe is true? I have tried to be respectful and I don't think I have ever called anyone a name.

Where did you get the idea that recognizing that you have pride is calling you names? Where is it written that having pride is a bad thing?

 

[Nancy]

I don't know. It could have been a god or it could have been natural processes. I think the evidence points to a natural process but I am open to other answers if the evidence warrants that belief.

Don't scientists agree that they can not get something from nothing?

 

[Nancy]

Where did you get the idea that recognizing that you have pride is calling you names? Where is it written that having pride is a bad thing?

I believe the wrong kind of pride will never allow one to see the truth. I once heard that if you scratch the surface of every sin, you will find ...pride.

 

[Willie T]

I believe the wrong kind of pride will never allow one to see the truth. I once heard that if you scratch the surface of every sin, you will find ...pride.

Thank you. But I was asking for Vince to answer that from his own understanding.

 

[Nancy]

Thank you. But I was asking for Vince to answer that from his own understanding.

Sry

 

[Dave L]

You can call me Vince.

I did not reject a false Christ. What I came to conclude is that I didn't have sufficient reasons to believe any god existed. It wasn't that I rejected a particular idea of god because I did not like it.

I suppose the difference is in first experiencing Christ through an inner peace and happiness that happens in association with his name. And from there trying to figure out what happened and why. So it isn't "blind faith" or superstition, but an inner transformation that spawns belief. This is how I experienced Christ at a time when I wasn't interested in religion.

 

[Vince]

I know of none.

Allah claims this.

He said so. Others witnessed His claims. And it appears you have eyes to see, the sun, moon, stars, majestic mountains, oceans, rain fall from the sky, might know a little bit about your body....

I highly doubt you can see wind, but can feel it, that you can see smoke and know something is burning whether or not you can see fire, that you can feel your heart pumping blood, but have never seen your heart, you inhale air, but have never seen your lungs...

Why would you believe you have a heart or lungs, if you have never seen them?

Of course, because I have sufficient evidence to believe I have these organs.

Have you ever had a Thought ? Where do you believe that thought comes from? Your mind? Have you ever seen or held a brain?
Explain how a thought comes from your brain....Because seriously, I have held a brain in my hands, and has no writing or script or such idea floating out of it.

Yes thoughts come from your brain. That has been sufficiently shown by science. You change the brain you change the person. You cannot have thoughts without a brain. Science has shown that if you change the brain you can change how the person acts, thinks etc.

So, do you think of the Bible as fiction?

Not all of it. Some of it has been verified by archaeology some has been refuted by archaeology. I don't know if the miracles really happened but i don't have enough evidence to show that they did.

I'd like to know, if you think your brain and heart and lungs exist.

Of course. because I have an overwhelming amount of evidence that they do.

And what is the evidence to support, your name is Vince, or you have children, or you are actually the one writing on this forum?

If I wanted to I could provide you with sufficient evidence to that. You have not provided sufficient evidence that god exists.

 

[Vince]

I/we don't want you to "believe" something. We're here. You came to us. We have something to share if you care to know the truth. It might please us to have you know the truth, but we are not here to twist your arm. That's it.

Ok, that's fine. If that is all the evidence you have then I am not convinced.

[/quote]Are you not continually demanding evidence, that is to say "proof", by continually going on and on about that being your terms? Of course you are.[/quote]No. Asking for evidence is not demanding anything. If you don't have any more as you have said then I will stop asking you. And no, I do not require or am I asking for proof.

But, yes, we/I have told you we have evidence...and spelled it out to you in multiple ways, but you could not process it. But it is not for lack of presenting it to you. A blind person cannot be shown what is right in front of them. The failure is yours.

I never said you did not provide evidence. I have said that the evidence you provided is not sufficient for belief in my opinion.