Calvinism is a Cult

[Preacher4Truth]

Some of us have other things to do beside responding to Calvinists on the internet, you know.

Yes, of course. It's apparently easier for you to make false accusations and false conclusions. Then after that there is ample time available to insult a Calvinist when your assertions are challenged, and your conclusions are found baseless, right?

Otherwise we're to believe you're just too busy, unless, that is, you have some falsities or insulting comments. Right?

Why not accept you've been refuted several times in this thread, and "humble" yourself? Hmmm? And end insulting others simply for the fact they dismantle your beliefs?

We call this acting Christian around here.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Show me one place where it stated God has the right to take innocent life. You’re teetering on blasphemy here my Sister.

Too bad you are not John Calvin--then you could have me burned at the stake.

p.s. See my other post on the end of page 66 for my thoughts on this. I'm too lazy to repeat it.

 

[justbyfaith]

2Sa 12:23

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Creation cannot sin, therefore it is neither innocent nor guilty. People, however, CAN and DO sin. Did God lie in the garden when He said "In the day you eat thereof ye shall surely die." ?

God does not take the lives of the innocent.... because none are innocent. If God took someones life for no good reason, that is murder, and is therefore a sin. God does not sin.

It is easily observed that God does take innocent life. It is His to take. The rules that He sets for us are not binding on Him--His judgements are totally righteous. It is presumptuous of you to suggest that you can judge God. You are making the atheists' arguments for them.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

2Sa 12:23

Yes--I guess the Calvinists are saying that not only did the baby go to eternal punishment, but David did as well?

 

[Mjh29]

It is easily observed that God does take innocent life. It is His to take. The rules that He sets for us are not binding on Him--His judgements are totally righteous. It is presumptuous of you to suggest that you can judge God. You are making the atheists' arguments for them.

So, while you accept that God kills the righteous for doing nothing wrong, you somehow see a problem with Him not giving everyone a change at salvation?

There is no such thing as an innocent life.

Romans 3:10-12
As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Ecclesiastes 7:20
Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

Romans 3:1-31
Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God. What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written, “That you may be justified in your words, and prevail when you are judged.” But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.) ...

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

Romans 5:1
Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:12
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”

1 Timothy 1:9
Understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,

Notice how not one of these verses gives an exception. No one is born innocent, therefore God does not take innocent life; there is none to take.

 

[Mjh29]

Yes--I guess the Calvinists are saying that not only did the baby go to eternal punishment, but David did as well?

We know that David was saved, and He trusted God's blessing on his children as well. David truly believed that God had quickened the heart of his infant child. Unlike Arminianism, Reformed theology allows for such hope.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

We know that David was saved, and He trusted God's blessing on his children as well. David truly believed that God had quickened the heart of his infant child. Unlike Arminianism, Reformed theology allows for such hope.

Did David trust that his sons, Amnon (he raped his own half-sister--David's righteous daughter) and his son Absalom, (he killed Amnon and would have killed his father and usurped his throne) had God's blessing on them?

 

[Mjh29]

Did David trust that his sons, Amnon (he raped his own half-sister--David's righteous daughter) and his son Absalom, (he killed Amnon and would have killed his father and usurped his throne) had God's blessing on them?

No, because he knew them by their fruits. The child still had God's promises to the faithful believers upon it, and David trusted in these promises.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

So, while you accept that God kills the righteous for doing nothing wrong, you somehow see a problem with Him not giving everyone a change at salvation?

There is no such thing as an innocent life.

Romans 3:10-12
As it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Ecclesiastes 7:20
Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins.

Romans 3:1-31
Then what advantage has the Jew? Or what is the value of circumcision? Much in every way. To begin with, the Jews were entrusted with the oracles of God. What if some were unfaithful? Does their faithlessness nullify the faithfulness of God? By no means! Let God be true though every one were a liar, as it is written, “That you may be justified in your words, and prevail when you are judged.” But if our unrighteousness serves to show the righteousness of God, what shall we say? That God is unrighteous to inflict wrath on us? (I speak in a human way.) ...

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

Romans 5:1
Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Romans 3:12
All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”

1 Timothy 1:9
Understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who strike their fathers and mothers, for murderers,

Notice how not one of these verses gives an exception. No one is born innocent, therefore God does not take innocent life; there is none to take.

Those who have not sinned are innocent. Every child is born innocent and becomes corrupted by this corrupt world "bad company corrupts good character" (1 Corinthians 15:33). That is why Jesus reserves some of His harshest words for those who would corrupt children--saying that it would be better for them to have a millstone placed about their neck and thrown into the depths of the sea. This was considered to be an horrific death as there wouldn't even be a body to bury after such a catastrophe.

 

[Mjh29]

Those who have not sinned are innocent. Every child is born innocent and becomes corrupted by this corrupt world. That is why Jesus reserves some of His harshest words for those who would corrupt children--saying that it would be better for them to have a millstone placed about their neck and thrown into the depths of the sea. This was considered to be an horrific death as there wouldn't even be a body to bury after such a catastrophe.

Psalms 58:3

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Psalms 58:3

Nailed it.

It's apparent many have their opinions on these things, but aren't biblical. You on the other hand go to the source of authority, the word of God.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

No, because he knew them by their fruits. The child still had God's promises to the faithful believers upon it, and David trusted in these promises.

Careful now, since you have judged David's sons, to be fair, you need to judge John Calvin by the same standard. Isn't this what Jesus was referring to when He told His followers to "judge but judge rightly"?

 

[Preacher4Truth]

Those who have not sinned are innocent. Every child is born innocent and becomes corrupted by this corrupt world. That is why Jesus reserves some of His harshest words for those who would corrupt children--saying that it would be better for them to have a millstone placed about their neck and thrown into the depths of the sea. This was considered to be an horrific death as there wouldn't even be a body to bury after such a catastrophe.

That's nothing but your theory and subjectivism. Your position is not biblical or sound because you haven't presented a biblical case. You should use Scripture not your opinion.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Psalms 58:3

Much of the Psalms take a bit of poetic license otherwise you'd have to believe that newborn babies "lie" and "spit venom like deadly snakes." I never saw a newborn do either of those things--have you? A favorite accusation of Calvinists toward non-Calvinists is that they "take verses out of context". Now who has taken this obvious hyperbole as literal truth?

 

[Mjh29]

Much of the Psalms take a bit of poetic license otherwise you'd have to believe that newborn babies "lie" and "spit venom like deadly snakes." I never saw a newborn do either of those things--have you? A favorite accusation of Calvinists toward non-Calvinists is that they "take verses out of context". Now who has taken this obvious hyperbole as literal truth?

Hyperbolic, yes. But hyperbolic for what? Lying and spiting venom are hyperbolic for being sinful. Are these hyperbolies for things that are pure and righteous? No. Are they hyperbolic for sinful and corrupt things? Yes, yes they are.

 

[Mjh29]

Careful now, since you have judged David's sons, to be fair, you need to judge John Calvin by the same standard. Isn't this what Jesus was referring to when He told His followers to "judge but judge rightly"?

I don't follow.
Careful now, since you accused God of killing the righteous. Is this any more or less than what you suppose that Calvin did? [He didn't do what you think he did anyways.]

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Hyperbolic, yes. But hyperbolic for what? Lying and spiting venom are hyperbolic for being sinful. Are these hyperbolies for things that are pure and righteous? No. Are they hyperbolic for sinful and corrupt things? Yes, yes they are.

It is hyperbolic to suggest that they were that way from birth. Jesus loved the little children and blessed them--He did NOT scold them for their supposed sin. He wasn't shy about scolding others over their sin, was He?

 

[Mjh29]

It is hyperbolic to suggest that they were that way from birth. Jesus loved the little children and blessed them--He did NOT scold them for their supposed sin. He wasn't shy about scolding others over their sin, was He?

They were what way?
Sinful. Fallen. Depraved. Exactly.

Who's children were the ones sitting on His lap? The children of those who were following Him. And who were following Him? The people who believed in Him; the believers.

These were the children of the believers, not the children of pagans.
There is no support for the fact that children are born pure, and in fact there is much evidence against it. Please, do not rely on what you feel is right; look at the Scriptures and see that, even if they are speaking metaphorically, these metaphors are not eluding to anything "pure" when they speak or lies and snake's venom.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I don't follow.
Careful now, since you accused God of killing the righteous. Is this any more or less than what you suppose that Calvin did? [He didn't do what you think he did anyways.]

It is NOT my accusation--it is my observation. (See Job 9:22 for evidence--Job actually calls himself innocent--"blameless" in Job 9:21)

God could have prevented the killing of the righteous martyrs, but He did not. He did not contravene the will of wicked men to murder them. The wicked are storing up the wrath of God for what they have done. In the End, NO ONE will ever be able to say that God is unjust.