Christ vs the anti-Christ: Who is winning?

[Nancy]

I do think it's important to acknowledge the good that is in people of each denomination, even when there are disagreements on pretty important doctrinal points. Obviously I'm not Catholic or Protestant, but I will readily acknowledge that I have met many Catholics and Protestants whom are fully devoted servants of God and there are admirable beliefs in each group. And yes, every single group also has sinners and problems.

My awesomely sweet Grandmother was a very devout Catholic. She played the organ for almost 40 years at a large Catholic Church in my area. I used to sit up there in the balcony as a child allot and suck on her black fisherman's lozenges, lol. That woman never exhibited anything BUT the fruits of Gods Spirit and I have no doubt where she is. Catholic or not. JMHO

 

[CoreIssue]

My awesomely sweet Grandmother was a very devout Catholic. She played the organ for almost 40 years at a large Catholic Church in my area. I used to sit up there in the balcony as a child allot and suck on her black fisherman's lozenges, lol. That woman never exhibited anything BUT the fruits of Gods Spirit and I have no doubt where she is. Catholic or not. JMHO

Sometimes a saint can be found in the most unexpected place.

 

[Marymog]

Mary, your answer to #1 actually perfectly embodies problem #2. You keep referencing SINNERS and following SINNERS. Nothing about getting on your knees, and approaching God yourself. I have a major problem with that. God's servants should be *encouraging* a person to approach God and build a direct relationship with HIM, not shunning the idea.

All men are sinners. You follow your sinners, I follow mine.

Would you care to address your theory that I debunked?

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Not looking to get into a huge cranial discussion with you on this Mary. IMHO-
"The Church" should be judged buy the scriptures and not the other way around.

" Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes, so that in us you may learn not to exceed what is written, so that no one of you will become arrogant in behalf of one against the other." 1 Corinthians 4:6.
This is clear as a cows bell to me.

""I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it." Matthew 16:18 "Now I exhort you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be made complete in the same mind and in the same judgment. For I have been informed concerning you, my brethren, by Chloe's people, that there are quarrels among you. Now I mean this, that each one of you is saying, "I am of Paul," and "I of Apollos," and "I of Peter," and "I of Christ." Has Christ been divided? Paul was not crucified for you, was he? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?" 1 Corinthians 1:10-13.

You and I, Mary, will never agree on certain things so, why can't we just keep Jesus in common??

Thank you Nancy.

The Church decides what the Truth is in scripture. That is why scripture calls The Church the pillar and foundation of truth AND says that The Church decides who should be treated as pagans/tax collectors.

It seems pretty clear to me that you think YOU get to decide who is "arrogant" and has the correct interpretation of Scripture. Why is it YOU get to decide what is written and who is "arrogant"?

We do have Jesus in common. We just disagree on what he meant. I follow The Church which is the pillar and foundation of Truth. You follow you and the men of the Reformation or men who disagreed with the Reformers. I think the men who walked and talked with the Apostles know better than you. You think you know better than them.

Why do you refuse to answer my questions? Are you suggesting that the historical Christian writings we have from the 1st and 2nd Century Christians are a product of the Anti-Christ?"

Sola Scriptura is an extra-biblical teaching that was begot of a man in the 1500's. It had not been taught for the first 1,500 years of Christianity. Why do you accept that teaching by that man but not the teachings of the men who walked and talked with the apostles?

Patient Mary

 

[Marymog]

The apostles and disciples asked Him the same question. His reply was...
He said the words that I speak to you, they are spirit and they are life.
Jesus did not say one word about it being a literal transformation of the substance of bread into flesh and blood that they had to eat in order to be sanctified. We are sanctified by the word of truth... Not by eating bread... Or his flesh... Man cannot live by bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

Thank you BL.

I agree with you. The words that he spoke are spirit and life

So your theory is that when Jesus said, I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. And then at the Last Supper He showed us how to eat his body and drink His blood. And then Paul said whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. And then the NT and 1st Century Christians showed us how they accomplish this, by eating bread and drinking wine that Jesus was REALLY saying we are only sanctified by every word that procees from the mouth of God.

2,000 years later you practice/believe opposite of what Scripture says and what you Christian brothers practice AND YOU THINK YOU ARE RIGHT???

For the sake of argument I will pretend you got it right and they got it wrong.

When you eat bread and drink wine in remembrance of Him, like he asked you to do, do you at least pretend it is His body and blood?

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

That is actually very easy to answer. A document, a blatant fraud foisted upon a gullible populous and used by the Catholic Church for centuries as evidence for Rome's right to rule over all Christendom. And one that to this day is not admitted as being the forgery it is by Catholicism. "The Donation of Constantine".

Glad you brought that up. Your belief that the CC has not admitted it as being a forgery is easily debunked:

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Donation of Constantine

Donation of Constantine

Next subject please.

Historical Mary

 

[Marymog]

Her illicit relationship with the kings and governments of this world, making her a harlot and adulteress.

We are talking doctrine or dogma not "relationships".

 

[Marymog]

I'm Presbyterian, so.... where does that leave me in all this? I, too follow the Reformation

Hi MJ,

From what I have read it (baptism) is the same as The Churches teaching.

Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) - What Presbyterians believe: the sacrament of baptism


Mary

 

[Jane_Doe22]

All men are sinners. You follow your sinners, I follow mine.

NO!!!!

I follow GOD. Likewise with a vast majority of the posters here. A proper Christian life is about that person getting on their knees and having a relationship with GOD. A church's people should be servants of God which exist to aide you approaching God and having a relationship with Him. It's NEVER about the servant conducting a coup and sitting on the throne of God for us to follow them instead of Him.

The fact that you (Mary specifically, not Catholics in general) do not see that at all is a HUGE problem. And you simply don't see it, and just keeping urging everyone here to likewise abandon God to follow sinners- something I and others have a MAJOR problem with.

Would you care to address your theory that I debunked?

I did.

 

[Mjh29]

Hi MJ,

From what I have read it (baptism) is the same as The Churches teaching.

Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) - What Presbyterians believe: the sacrament of baptism


Mary

I personally am affiliated with the RPCNA. Here is our statment [thought I am not sure how much it would differ on baptism if at all...]

https://rpcna.org/history/constitution.pdf

 

[Marymog]

NO!!!!

I follow GOD. Likewise with a vast majority of the posters here. A proper Christian life is about that person getting on their knees and having a relationship with GOD. A church's people should be servants of God which exist to aide you approaching God and having a relationship with Him. It's NEVER about the servant conducting a coup and sitting on the throne of God for us to follow them instead of Him.

The fact that you (Mary specifically, not Catholics in general) do not see that at all is a HUGE problem. And you simply don't see it, and just keeping urging everyone here to likewise abandon God to follow sinners- something I and others have a MAJOR problem with.

I did.

HI JANE,

A proper Christian life is about doing what Jesus told us to do: feed the hungry, obey the commandments, do this in remembrance of me, baptize all nations, preach the gospel etc. etc. NO WHERE in scripture does it say "A proper Christian life is about that person getting on their knees and having a relationship with GOD." If it is in scripture, PLEASE show it to me.

Who is your spiritual/bible teacher???

What I meant in post #583 was that you have YOUR interpretation of Scripture that you accept and/or you have accepted the interpretation of the Reformers. You are a sinner. The Reformers are sinners. I am a sinner. The men of the CC are sinners. Scripture talks about heretical teachings, tickling of ears, false prophets etc. etc. I say the men of the Reformation and those afterward fulfill those passages. You think the CC fulfills it. I say The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. You seem to think you are.

Mary


Patient Mary

 

[Jane_Doe22]

HI JANE,

A proper Christian life is about doing what Jesus told us to do: feed the hungry, obey the commandments, do this in remembrance of me, baptize all nations, preach the gospel etc. etc. NO WHERE in scripture does it say "A proper Christian life is about that person getting on their knees and having a relationship with GOD." If it is in scripture, PLEASE show it to me.

Who is your spiritual/bible teacher???

What I meant in post #583 was that you have YOUR interpretation of Scripture that you accept and/or you have accepted the interpretation of the Reformers. You are a sinner. The Reformers are sinners. I am a sinner. The men of the CC are sinners. Scripture talks about heretical teachings, tickling of ears, false prophets etc. etc. I say the men of the Reformation and those afterward fulfill those passages. You think the CC fulfills it. I say The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. You seem to think you are.

Mary


Patient Mary

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Mathew 37-38 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.

 

[Marymog]

I personally am affiliated with the RPCNA. Here is our statment [thought I am not sure how much it would differ on baptism if at all...]

https://rpcna.org/history/constitution.pdf

It reads the same....

 

[Marymog]

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Mathew 37-38 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.

Ummmmm.....nothing to do with getting on your knees and having a relationship with GOD.

Would you care to try again????

A proper Christian life is about doing what Jesus told us to do: feed the hungry, obey the commandments, do this in remembrance of me, baptize all nations, preach the gospel etc. etc

 

[Mjh29]

It reads the same....

I thought as much.
.... that is all I had to say lol.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Ummmmm.....nothing to do with getting on your knees and having a relationship with GOD.

Would you care to try again????

A proper Christian life is about doing what Jesus told us to do: feed the hungry, obey the commandments, do this in remembrance of me, baptize all nations, preach the gospel etc. etc

Mary, you are advocating
1) violation of the first great commandment.
2) that the best way to reach eternal life is not to know God, but to violate the first commadment.
And then you are prosylizing these ideas. Please stop. Please actually approach God and get to know HIM.

 

[CoreIssue]

NO!!!!

I follow GOD. Likewise with a vast majority of the posters here. A proper Christian life is about that person getting on their knees and having a relationship with GOD. A church's people should be servants of God which exist to aide you approaching God and having a relationship with Him. It's NEVER about the servant conducting a coup and sitting on the throne of God for us to follow them instead of Him.

The fact that you (Mary specifically, not Catholics in general) do not see that at all is a HUGE problem. And you simply don't see it, and just keeping urging everyone here to likewise abandon God to follow sinners- something I and others have a MAJOR problem with.

I did.

But the real issue remains. Which God.

Mormon God is not the God of the Bible.

 

[Marymog]

Mary, you are advocating
1) violation of the first great commandment.
2) that the best way to reach eternal life is not to know God, but to violate the first commadment.
And then you are prosylizing these ideas. Please stop. Please actually approach God and get to know HIM.

Dear dear Jane,

I asked you to PLEASE show me where in Scripture it says AS YOU ALLEGE that "A proper Christian life is about that person getting on their knees and having a relationship with GOD."

You FAILED.

Mary

 

[mjrhealth]

All men are sinners. You follow your sinners, I follow mine.

Would you care to address your theory that I debunked?

Mary

IS Christ a sinner?? you may follow your sinners but those in Christ only follow Christ who has no sin,

Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Dear dear Jane,

I asked you to PLEASE show me where in Scripture it says AS YOU ALLEGE that "A proper Christian life is about that person getting on their knees and having a relationship with GOD."

You FAILED.

Mary

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Our eternal life is based around us knowing God. You+Him getting together, getting to know each other, and following Him.