Why are our ordained pastors so ignorant of Scripture?

[Marymog]

Most Divinity students have a goal in mind of being hired by a church affiliated with the school they attend. Despite any high-sounding ideals, they are pursuing the same strategy any other college student seeks.... making themselves qualified to attain a successful position within a desired organization.

Your statement is very accurate.

IMO....If they agree with the teachings/doctrines/beliefs of that "church affiliated with the school they attend" then I don't think it is a bad thing for them wanting to 'attain a successful position within that desired organization'.

My two cents worth...Mary

 

[Willie T]

Your statement is very accurate.

IMO....If they agree with the teachings/doctrines/beliefs of that "church affiliated with the school they attend" then I don't think it is a bad thing for them wanting to 'attain a successful position within that desired organization'.

My two cents worth...Mary

The only problem is that they, then, absorb the inculcation of specifically, and only, "slanted" (or even totally fabricated or mistaken) interpretations of Scripture. Thereby effectively isolating their thinking to the limited sphere of the esoteric mindset of just their specific denomination...…. be that "spiritual monastery", so to speak, Protestant, Jewish, or Catholic.

And, thus, they (we) usually end up worshiping their (our) "organized church", rather than God.

 

[Willie T]

In actuality, I imagine most young preachers DO know Scripture well..... The specific and concentrated-upon scriptures that elevate and accentuate the "tunnel-missioned" (and visioned) focus of the organization they go to work for. Receiving a guaranteed and steady check can influence a lot.

 

[marks]

Unfortunately, in the "church system" we have cultivated, a young man cannot feed even himself, let alone a wife and future children unless he accepts selling out to some degree to that system.

Thankfully it was different for our pastor.

He began in a well known denomination, but soon realized he did not go for their liberal ways (as commonly known). A number of the congregation, after he left, also left, and asked that he pastor a new church. And our church began. And his support has always been for him and his family, to simply serve according to his heart.

But all too much the other thing happens, and people are hired like employees.

Much love!
mark

 

[Dave L]

is it bc we all seek immortality, Death More Abundantly, so single mindedly?
I used to interview pastors, and I found that even among those who had figured it out, to a man they stated that they could never preach it in their "church."

It depends on where you look. Many good churches have ministers with earned Doctorates from well known seminaries and universities. And history abounds with centuries of tremendous collections of bible knowledge. But you won't find any of this in popular religion today. The church packers would go broke if they even knew half of it, and preached it.

 

[CoreIssue]

It depends on where you look. Many good churches have ministers with earned Doctorates from well known seminaries and universities. And history abounds with centuries of tremendous collections of bible knowledge. But you won't find any of this in popular religion today. The church packers would go broke if they even knew half of it, and preached it.

What you're bragging about is why the Reformation occurred. And why there is always been many nondenominational churches.

And why we are now in apostasy. All these enlightenment people abandoning the Bible.

I'm not against learning and education. With all the decades study I've done I'd be a hypocrite to claim that.

One does not need a document to prove they have learned anything. I have seven on my wall and more in boxes from universities. So what?

 

[Marymog]

The only problem is that they, then, absorb the inculcation of specifically, and only, "slanted" (or even totally fabricated or mistaken) interpretations of Scripture. Thereby effectively isolating their thinking to the limited sphere of the esoteric mindset of just their specific denomination...…. be that "spiritual monastery", so to speak, Protestant, Jewish, or Catholic.

And, thus, they (we) usually end up worshiping their (our) "organized church", rather than God.

You see me as slanted. I see you as slanted. We see them as slanted...... and we all think WE (or our "spiritual monastery") do not have a fabricated/mistaken interpretation of Scripture.

Who decides who has a "slanted" or "even totally fabricated/mistaken interpretation of Scripture"?

I do not "worship" my Church. Agreeing with or adhering to the doctrines/dogmas of a "organized Church" is not the same as worshiping that Church and it does not take the worshiping of God out of the equation. One can still worship God but believe their Church is still right on it's interpretation of Scripture. The two do not equate.

If you are equating "worshiping" an organized church with agreeing with what that Churches doctrine/dogma are then a Christian who reads Scripture at home and believes they can properly interpret Scripture (with the guidance of the Holy Spirit of course) to determine the doctrine/dogma THEY believe to be true and they never go to an "organized church" they would in effect be worshiping themselves. They, in effect, have absorbed their inculcation of specifically and "slanted" (or even totally fabricated or mistaken) interpretations of Scripture. They become their own "church".

Wouldn't that be a problem also?

Mary

 

[CoreIssue]

Another point, universities teach their opinions, not the biblical ones. They teach denominational doctrine and humanistic nonsense.

 

[Willie T]

You see me as slanted. I see you as slanted. We see them as slanted...... and we all think WE (or our "spiritual monastery") do not have a fabricated/mistaken interpretation of Scripture.

Who decides who has a "slanted" or "even totally fabricated/mistaken interpretation of Scripture"?

I do not "worship" my Church. Agreeing with or adhering to the doctrines/dogmas of a "organized Church" is not the same as worshiping that Church and it does not take the worshiping of God out of the equation. One can still worship God but believe their Church is still right on it's interpretation of Scripture. The two do not equate.

If you are equating "worshiping" an organized church with agreeing with what that Churches doctrine/dogma are then a Christian who reads Scripture at home and believes they can properly interpret Scripture (with the guidance of the Holy Spirit of course) to determine the doctrine/dogma THEY believe to be true and they never go to an "organized church" they would in effect be worshiping themselves. They, in effect, have absorbed their inculcation of specifically and "slanted" (or even totally fabricated or mistaken) interpretations of Scripture. They become their own "church".

Wouldn't that be a problem also?

Mary

Of course it would. That is why God said to hang out with others who worship Him... no matter where you find them, nor even if they agree with you. Even the Apostles disagreed on many things. Likeminded is not "in lockstep."

 

[Dave L]

What you're bragging about is why the Reformation occurred. And why there is always been many nondenominational churches.

And why we are now in apostasy. All these enlightenment people abandoning the Bible.

I'm not against learning and education. With all the decades study I've done I'd be a hypocrite to claim that.

One does not need a document to prove they have learned anything. I have seven on my wall and more in boxes from universities. So what?

Book learnin' helps to know things. Being stupid will only git you so far.

 

[CoreIssue]

Book learnin' helps to know things. Being stupid will only git you so far.

I am all for learning but the points I made still stand as fact by learning.

 

[Dave L]

I am all for learning but the points I made still stand as fact by learning.

“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” (2 Timothy 2:15)

 

[Marymog]

Of course it would. That is why God said to hang out with others who worship Him... no matter where you find them, nor even if they agree with you. Even the Apostles disagreed on many things. Likeminded is not "in lockstep."

Thank you Willie.

I agree with you....It would be a problem. I will add to that....It IS a problem. I call them a 'church of one'. ;)

I don't think that is all that God said about hanging out with others and how to handle someone that disagrees with you: And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet (Matthew 10:14). If the people in the town will not welcome you, go outside the town and shake their dust off of your feet. This will be a warning to them.(Luke 9:5)

Also Matthew 18:16-17 talks about disagreements and how to handle them. None of those three passages suggest hanging around with them even if they disagree with you.

Even though the Apostles may have disagreed on some things when it came time to hash out their disagreement, such as doctrinal issues that were binding upon all Christians, they gathered together and came to an agreement: hence, Council of Jerusalem, which was The Church deciding how to settle the disagreement which is a fulfillment of the aforementioned Matthew 18 passage.

Bible study Mary

PS....I don't recall any specific disagreements between the Apostles that weren't settled. Do you have an example?

 

[CoreIssue]

“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” (2 Timothy 2:15)

But it does not say get a degree and join the establishment.

 

[Willie T]

Thank you Willie.

I agree with you....It would be a problem. I will add to that....It IS a problem. I call them a 'church of one'. ;)

I don't think that is all that God said about hanging out with others and how to handle someone that disagrees with you: And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet (Matthew 10:14). If the people in the town will not welcome you, go outside the town and shake their dust off of your feet. This will be a warning to them.(Luke 9:5)

Also Matthew 18:16-17 talks about disagreements and how to handle them. None of those three passages suggest hanging around with them even if they disagree with you.

Even though the Apostles may have disagreed on some things when it came time to hash out their disagreement, such as doctrinal issues that were binding upon all Christians, they gathered together and came to an agreement: hence, Council of Jerusalem, which was The Church deciding how to settle the disagreement which is a fulfillment of the aforementioned Matthew 18 passage.

Bible study Mary

PS....I don't recall any specific disagreements between the Apostles that weren't settled. Do you have an example?

The epistles relate many disagreements that wound up in separation and people even leaving others during mission journeys.

 

[Dave L]

But it does not say get a degree and join the establishment.

Some are just smarter than us and can't help it.

 

[Willie T]

MM, Luke 9:5 was not about Christians fellowshipping.

 

[bbyrd009]

Why were you interviewing so many pastors?

Curious Mary

I was at the time breaking into sociological research, doctors who want to publish need hard data to establish a control set, yikes what a game that was lol. The tailored questions, designed to elicit desired responses...anyway, now I develop protocols based upon answers rather than Qs, doesn't pay as well but more truthful

 

[amadeus]

Hi Amadeus,

Can a person brainwash themselves into believing they know how to properly interpret Scripture so that they come to the truth of Scripture?

Curious Mary

Perhaps it would be what the Apostle Paul calls "delusion":

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
II Thess 2:10-12

 

[Jay Ross]

Leaders of churches are usually trained before selection committees will consider any of the candidates for appointment to a position of leadership within that church. A piece of paper from the relevant training organisation helps make the selection process easier for the committee in that it indicates that the candidates were able to convince the lecturers within that respective training organisation that their "student" was trainable by the acceptable regurgitation of the lecturers material during a stressful examination of what the student knows. The material taught is usually backed up through the use of a recognisable and notable author's book on the respective subject matter.

What the teaching institution does not test for is the ability of the students to be able to think for themselves. What the students learn is how they should frame their answers within the framework of examination of what they have learned such that it is acceptable to the lecturers marking their assessment papers.

When it becomes time for interacting with a selection committee to be selected for appointment within a particular church the candidate, if he is smart, will have researched the respective churches acceptable theological framework is, and frame his responses accordingly. That means that the theological perspectives of the people on the selection committee drive the outcome of the person who is selected to be a leader within their church.

This comes down to what the selection committee's understanding of the new leader's role will be within the respective church.

So the weak link in the selection of a new leader within the church is the selection committee itself and their understanding of what is needed to select the right leader to lead them.

I am a student of the scriptures. I have been studying and reflecting on the scriptures my whole adult life. However, it has taken me all of this time to come to understand that my understanding of what God requires is very much driven by the contextual framework of how I approach the scriptures.

The same is also true in churches. A church is usually made up of people who have the same contextual understanding in their approach to reading the scriptures.

So the selection committee's choice is often limited to appointing a person who has the same contextual framework to the scriptures as they do which means that the church will not be forced out of their comfort zone by the introduction of a new contextual framework of understanding the scriptures.

So churches usually end up in the same rut that they had before the leadership replacement committee makes a selection of the new leadership personal so that the congregation can remain unchallenged in their lives.

The question that should be answered before any new selection is made is, "does the church agree that the congregation needs to be challenged into a deeper relationship with God?" The next question that needs to be agreed with is, "What is the criteria that the new appointee needs to have to be able to do this?"

The next question that has to be answered is, "Does the selection committee need to please the congregation or should they be listening to God and adhering to His voice during the selection process?"

It all comes down to understanding the contextual requirements of what a church is. What are the requirements of leading a congregation into a deeper and fulfilling relationship with God? The whole church needs to understand what this implies for them.

Shalom