Calvinism is a Cult

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Vince

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I see them at our church-funded food bank and clothes closet. How did you think I would see them? Whenever I see anyone feeding the poor, I see the providence of God (from whom ALL blessings flow) but I do not see the Savior in what they do.
So you only see Jesus when you know beforehand they are Christians. Ok.



That is not illegitimate. We know that He will leave none of the prophecies undone--that some were for the 1st Advent and some for the 2nd Advent. The ancient rabbis were confused by the two sets of events. They assumed that there would be two Messiahs ("Messiah Ben Joseph" and "Messiah Ben David") each accomplishing His own tasks. We understand that it is the same Messiah who comes twice. Jesus' disciples in Acts 1:6 asked the Risen Jesus anxiously if that was the time when He would restore the Kingdom to Israel. He did not deny that the Kingdom would one day be restored to Israel, He merely said that only the Father sets those dates. He then pointed them to the task at hand--that of telling the world about Him.
You are merely saying that if the prophecies have not been fulfilled then they will in the future. You have no basis to claim this except that you believe they will.

There is no such thing as "proof" when it comes to faith (do I really need to quote Hebrews 11:1 for you?). If you were a practicing Christian for 18 years, you should know that. If you were a real Christian then, you are a Christian still--although it seems that you are currently a rebellious and disobedient one.
I was not talking about faith but the bible. But I see your point. Then just give me sufficient evidence to believe the bible is the word of god?

"Life changing over time" is still a triviality. Of course life changes slightly over time but, as Michael Behe points out, unfortunately, when mutations occur, they cannot occur without breaking genes and that frequently puts an end to the creature when the number of broken genes becomes deadly. It is not evolution that is occurring, but rather devolution. All world-class geneticists understand the problem but are whistling through evolution's graveyard.
Have you have read real evolutionists on the subject of Behe's points. Anyway, like I said I don't care if evolution is true or not. Proving evolution false does not then prove anything about god.

Mmmm--name one. Despite all the trumpeting for gene tamperers, all the genetic tinkering that has been done, using new technologies, almost always ends in disaster. They are now talking about altering germ lines and that promises to be a total disaster as whatever mistakes they make will be carried forward in future generations and accelerate the great extinction that is coming. It seems that God did not intend unending generations of mortal humans.
The science of bacterial antibiotic resistance. We know that Antibiotics put selective pressure on a population resulting in resistant strains. Because we know this we have developed strategies and antibiotics that minimize resistance. What advancement in medical science has creationism led to?



Sure it does. When one refutes the hypothesis of evolution, one refutes materialism as the driving force of the universe.
No. It just refutes evolution. You calling it a hypothesis does not change the fact that it is a well established theory with mountains of evidence to support it.
 

Vince

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Reading this thread, Don't you guys get the feeling that faith is not the best way to determine truth? You all claim to have faith but cannot even come to a consensus on what that even is.
 

farouk

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Yes, but IMO, that does not preclude him from coming back into fellowship upon repentance. Those of first "soil" have no bearing at all because they are prevented from believing by the hardness of their hearts (the "seed" of the word is sown on the hard ground and doesn't take root). The second soil is also one where conversion has not taken place because the testing and temptations of life (the rocks) prevent them from sinking their roots deep into the soil so that they get the nourishment they need. The third soil are those who are just too busy with trivialities so that person remains immature and fails to bear fruit for the Lord. The fourth soil is obviously what we are being told that we must be in order to bear fruit for Him.
The parable of the sower is very relevant, indeed. A lot of wisdom in those Gospel accounts of the parable.
 

CoreIssue

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Reading this thread, Don't you guys get the feeling that faith is not the best way to determine truth? You all claim to have faith but cannot even come to a consensus on what that even is.
Faith based on knowledge is a solid way to believe.

Some do try to make faith into something it is not. It is trust.
 

CoreIssue

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what knowledge do you have that supports your faith?

I studied science and history. History says creation had a beginning. Science says or had to be a cause of that beginning.

But the beginning defies science.

Walls of Jericho falling defied science.

Science says the areas such as this Sphinx and pyramids has always been arid. But science also shows massive water erosion on both, which they cannot explain.

The universe has been compared to a ultrahigh precision clock. Something that could not happen by chance.

Statisticians have said the existence of life is comparable to a lightning bolt striking a junkyard and when the dust clears a fully functional B-52 sitting there.

A platypus defies evolution. As do moths and butterflies.

Also a lot more.

What evidence do you have to support your faith? None.
 

justbyfaith

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There are a lot of atheists and others who believe in Jesus but put no faith in him.

If they believe in Jesus then they believe that He is God; otherwise they don't believe in Him (as He really is). Therefore they would not be atheists if they believed in Jesus. You are also using the term "believe in" to denote "I believe He exists". I am defining "to believe in" as meaning "to put your trust in." This is the same thing as faith.

Who says believe in something means faith in something? Or dedication to something?

Yours truly. You certainly have the right to agree to disagree with me. As far as I'm concerned it is not an essential issue unless it affects some essential issue so that you would believe wrongly about that.
 

justbyfaith

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Reading this thread, Don't you guys get the feeling that faith is not the best way to determine truth? You all claim to have faith but cannot even come to a consensus on what that even is.
The fact that Christians disagree on issues only shows the sinfulness of man and the imperfection of human understanding. This is something that the Bible declares is a reality.
 
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Lady Crosstalk

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So you only see Jesus when you know beforehand they are Christians.
Selective "understanding" on your part is worthless. I don't see Jesus in you at all no matter how much pride you take in your good-deed-doing. Those who are in Him, and have His indwelling presence, trust Him rather than the minds of men...including your own.


You are merely saying that if the prophecies have not been fulfilled then they will in the future. You have no basis to claim this except that you believe they will.
Go back and read my post carefully. One of your problems is that you are ignorant of the faith that you say you spent 18 years practicing. But don't feel bad, there's a lot of that among young Christians.

Then just give me sufficient evidence to believe the bible is the word of god?
You are looking for proof and there is no such thing as proof. You should know, if you know anything about science. There is just evidence that suggests. You are just chasing your tail.

"...I don't care if evolution is true or not. Proving evolution false does not then prove anything about god."
No, it just posts reasonable doubt about the whole materialist POV. We are part of a universe created by the Spirit of God through His great power. There is no other explanation. Now, my question remains for you: Are you going to get over yourself and take the leap of faith, or are you going to shrink back under the cover of atheistic fools? I am done going in circles with you--I don't believe that you are honestly seeking faith. What kind of a person goes on a Christian website to goad and harass Christians? Frankly, I have better things to do with my time.

We know that Antibiotics put selective pressure on a population resulting in resistant strains. Because we know this we have developed strategies and antibiotics that minimize resistance. What advancement in medical science has creationism led to?
The bacteria did not express anything that wasn't already there--not a big deal. Happens all the time in nature. Intelligent Design advocates do not deny that there is such a thing as "selective pressure" (called "survival of the fittest" by some, in the past). Please don't trot out the dopey black moth/white moth presentation--it is just a diversion from the actual questions which evolutionists invariably dodge.

Many, many scientists have been creationists, both in the past and even today (although they are apt to be quiet about it for fear that atheists will punish them for their faith). I know several scientists who are also Christians and believe that there was a Creative Intelligence behind all that we see.

No. It just refutes evolution. You calling it a hypothesis does not change the fact that it is a well established theory with mountains of evidence to support it.
Your "evidence" doesn't answer any real questions and, if you are as bright as you apparently think you are, you would know that. The only real "evidence" that evolutionists tout is the recording of instances of "selective pressure" and Intelligent Design and Creationists already believe that occurs.

A valid theory should be testable and much of the body of evolution conjecture is just that--conjecture--unable to be tested. Which means that overall, the great mass of evolutionary thought is a mere hypothesis. Many of the observations of evolutionists are trivial.

The data that is coming in from molecular biologists and biochemists deny much of evolutionary thought. Behe is right--if it does not work at the biochemical level (and he points to a lot of evidence that it doesn't), it doesn't work anywhere.
 

justbyfaith

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Is faith a good way to come to truth? Is it possible to believe something by faith and be wrong? I can believe by faith that leprechauns exist, right? or the Mulsim god is true, right?
When faith stands the test of fire, it is evidence that the thing that is believed in is faithful and true. That is all I'm saying.

Of course someone can believe in something and it not be true.

Faith in Jesus is a substance, however; it can be counted on as a firm foundation.
 

CoreIssue

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If they believe in Jesus then they believe that He is God; otherwise they don't believe in Him (as He really is). Therefore they would not be atheists if they believed in Jesus. You are also using the term "believe in" to denote "I believe He exists". I am defining "to believe in" as meaning "to put your trust in." This is the same thing as faith.



Yours truly. You certainly have the right to agree to disagree with me. As far as I'm concerned it is not an essential issue unless it affects some essential issue so that you would believe wrongly about that.

Jesus is the flesh the second person of the Trinity entered at the incarnation. God became flesh.

The eternal second person of the Trinity spirit enter the human flesh of Jesus.
 

Lady Crosstalk

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Reading this thread, Don't you guys get the feeling that faith is not the best way to determine truth? You all claim to have faith but cannot even come to a consensus on what that even is.

We are imperfect vessels of the Holy Spirit. What is it that you contain?
 

justbyfaith

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Jesus is the flesh the second person of the Trinity entered at the incarnation. God became flesh.

The eternal second person of the Trinity spirit enter the human flesh of Jesus.
It was God who became flesh; not 1/3 of God; and not a 2nd God.
 

Preacher4Truth

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It's funny to watch the heretic anti-Calvinists going at it with each other in this thread. With such deep heresies, misunderstandings of Scripture &c you'll never exhaust one another's errors.

Anyhow, carry on. :)
 
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Mjh29

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It's funny to watch the heretic anti-Calvinists going at it with each other in this thread. With such deep heresies, misunderstandings of Scripture &c you'll never exhaust one another's errors.

Anyhow, carry on. :)

Meanwhile, we're over here, like "Yeah, we disagree on a few things, but you've by all means got the Gospel message down." Ahh, the irony.

But WE'RE the heretics, mind you. The ones who are unified in their beliefs about salvation.
 

Mjh29

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I'll just be over here..... watching the Arminians proove that they are not in any stretch of the imagination a unified movement, but in reality a 'every man's theology for itself' group.

Bi6FcO7UoutWM
 

Preacher4Truth

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They know just enough verses to be dangerous and have something to argue about. They are the poster children of why even apostate Rome didn't want the Scriptures in the hands of the people. LOL!!!
 
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