Anti-Semitic & utter Conspiracy libelous nonsense Reggie. Terrible when some so called Christians like to hate on God's chosen people the Jews & spread their ignorance & bigotry. Wouldn't want to be one of these christians when they meet the King of the Jews.
Israel is the Church
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What "original Greek text" do you have which is different from what was presented? Both the critical and the received texts are practically IDENTICAL. And so are all the translations.
So you have a straw man argument, which you should abandon immediately, and adjust your theology accordingly.
Sorry Reggie, but the Bible makes it very clear that the Jews are Hebrews descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob -- the twelve tribes of Israel. They are a distinct race or ethnic group. Not "one tribe of the Semites". They are Semites in that they are descended from Shem, the son of Noah. They are Hebrews in that they have descended from Eber, the descendant of Shem. They are Israelites, since they descended from Jacob/Israel.
They are Jews since after the Babylonian captivity, they were all from Judea in Palestine, hence Yehudi. And their remnant became the Sephardic Jews after the Diaspora of 70 AD.
At the same time, all the Ashkenazic Jews (European and Central Asian Jews) who may have descended from the other races (or even from some of the ten lost tribes) are also accepted fully as Jews through their conversion to Judaism.
Do people ever wonder why it is Jews that people love to dismiss,criticize and accuse? Why is it people don't discuss whether any other nation or people have the right to exist collectively or that their people are the "real" authentic people, but it is only with the Jews, and the Nation of Israel that becomes the focus of these kinds of attacks. Why even some who call themselves Christians attempt to steal the promises God made to Israel & won't acknowledge Israel's right to exist as a nation that God made them giving them their land. There is a reason for these biased unrelenting attacks against Israel & the Jewish people and I believe it is a spiritual & supernatural reason.
No it is not a straw man argument that I present. Rev 20:12-16 speaks of all of the nations' kings being drawn to Armageddon to be judged. This same time of judgement is described in Luke 14:31-32.
The events of this same time, as to when Israel is saved is also described in Luke 19:14. None of these scriptural references speak of the heathen gentiles flooding into the church before all of Israel is saved.
We know from Daniel 8:13-14 that the heathen gentiles have 2,300 years to trample the sanctuary of God before it is restored to its rightful state.
Paul in Romans 11:25-26 was speaking of this time when the fullness in time of the 2,300 years of the heathen Gentiles trampling the Sanctuary of God will be completed and the judgement of God will be that these responsible heathen gentiles will be imprisoned in a pit along with the heavenly hosts who are no longer welcome to live within God's heaven and the pit will be locked up for 1,000 years. It is after this that all of Israel will be saved and that God will gather them to himself and that He will plant them in fertile soil for the seeds of the mountains of Israel to be planted in their midst, to teach them about His statutes and His ways before entering into the renewing of His covenant with Israel to be a Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the nations where they were living beside the rivers in the valleys and ravines throughout the whole world.
The issue is the contextual understanding of the replacement theology where the gentiles take over all of the functions of the Nation of Israel is what is wrong with your understanding. You are the one with the straw man argument, which as you have already stated should be abandon immediately, and adjust accordingly to be in accordance with what God has already told us will happen.
Shalom.
Oh well you should come and lick my boots, I had this type of trash come grovelling to me because I was a Jew and I said that they should not bow down to any man. and that Jesus Christ is the only one that you shall serve.
What if I was ignorant of Jesus Christ back then and swallowed such nonsense. I would be going to Hell, then for rejecting Jesus Christ.
But all people are going to hell for rejecting Jesus Christ and even many who say that they believe, do you all understand that fact and Jesus will say that he never knew you, now why did Jesus say that ? you may ask, well you did not serve him or abide in him and not to mention that one can not serve two masters in fact.
So who is wrong ? me ! who knows who Jesus truly is ? or some fool looking for him to come back, or is that truly one who truly rejects him and is looking for another Jesus.
I am talking about Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour who is hear with us who abide in him and have done for 2000 years, but we have a mod of brainwashed dupes who can't swallow that so they are looking to another ?
I feel so blessed that I know who Jesus Christ truly is and I feel so sorry for all who don't, it must be painful to be looking up a horses tail to try too see what his teeth look like.
Oh it's got noting to do with any attacks you know in fact on my part.
But this so called Jew idolising is an attack of Jesus Christ in fact.
The Jews have got nothing to give in fact, it's they who steal from Jesus Christ, as is all who reject him in fact, can't you see that fact ? only a Satanist could not understand that fact.
God never gave them the Land back, that they claim to be Israel now and many a truly dedicated educated Jews of the OT will tell you that for a fact ? who live in the so called State as well did you know that they do in fact say that ?
It was Hitler that worked to get the Land for them and fact is if Hitler never came about, the Land still would not of been a political donation given to such and it was given in the light, so that the Jewish people would have a place to go, due to the hatred that many still had to endure for them after WW2, I don't remember any Christian supporting Jews for being Jews, until that crap got started a round about 1990's.
I remember some school teachers hated me because they thought I was a Jew, I was poked in the eye at the start of grade one with a ruler by an nasty old bat for a teacher who knew and I walked home directly and not to mention that some would say my sir name looking at me and claimed to know where it came from, making out how they knew. yes but I was the 5th generating Christian that I knew of and all who were very dedicated Christian that's for sure.
But I know for a fact that Satanist just disregard anyone who claims otherwise directly I have seen it in action, just as Hitler's mob did, i's the same blind total ignorance.
Yes I know the works of Satanist and the Satanist don't like the spot light being shone on them.
Not all Jews are Satanist, because if they truly follow Holy Moses they will be able to see that Jesus is the Christ, as all who did 2000 years ago and came to know that Jesus is Christ.
I do not attack the OT, I point out the trash that claims to. just as I can the trash that claims to be Christians.
Not to mention that Jesus did the same, did you know that was what he was doing and do you know why they wanted to kill him, it's because Jesus was exposing them for who they truly were, in leading the people astray from God.
If they were truly Gods people they Israel they would of known who Jesus was directly just as Nathaniel did, not to mention that Jesus said he was so.
But this so called Jew idolising is an attack of Jesus Christ in fact.
The Jews have got nothing to give in fact, it's they who steal from Jesus Christ, as is all who reject him in fact, can't you see that fact ? only a Satanist could not understand that fact.
God never gave them the Land back, that they claim to be Israel now and many a truly dedicated educated Jews of the OT will tell you that for a fact ? who live in the so called State as well did you know that they do in fact say that ?
It was Hitler that worked to get the Land for them and fact is if Hitler never came about, the Land still would not of been a political donation given to such and it was given in the light, so that the Jewish people would have a place to go, due to the hatred that many still had to endure for them after WW2, I don't remember any Christian supporting Jews for being Jews, until that crap got started a round about 1990's.
I remember some school teachers hated me because they thought I was a Jew, I was poked in the eye at the start of grade one with a ruler by an nasty old bat for a teacher who knew and I walked home directly and not to mention that some would say my sir name looking at me and claimed to know where it came from, making out how they knew. yes but I was the 5th generating Christian that I knew of and all who were very dedicated Christian that's for sure.
But I know for a fact that Satanist just disregard anyone who claims otherwise directly I have seen it in action, just as Hitler's mob did, i's the same blind total ignorance.
Yes I know the works of Satanist and the Satanist don't like the spot light being shone on them.
Not all Jews are Satanist, because if they truly follow Holy Moses they will be able to see that Jesus is the Christ, as all who did 2000 years ago and came to know that Jesus is Christ.
I do not attack the OT, I point out the trash that claims to. just as I can the trash that claims to be Christians.
Not to mention that Jesus did the same, did you know that was what he was doing and do you know why they wanted to kill him, it's because Jesus was exposing them for who they truly were, in leading the people astray from God.
If they were truly Gods people they Israel they would of known who Jesus was directly just as Nathaniel did, not to mention that Jesus said he was so.
Reggie,
you are right. The context in which the Hebrew has been translated gives the wrong impression that Israel is entitled to retain the land of Canaan today. That the land is a gift from God. However, Genesis 15:16 tells us that some 4,000 years after the birth of Isaac that some of Abraham's descendants would return to the land, without a hint that God would be directly involved in their return. The fact of the matter, un Genesis 13, God promised to give to the descendants of Israel the land of Canaan that Abraham had walked over and seen, for a period of time that would be beyond their ability to comprehend.
God lead the Nation of Israel out of the desert to give them the Promised Land, but because of their idolatrous worship the last portion of the Land of Canaan was taken from them in 70 AD to become a devastated and desolated land for a period of around 2,000 years. Isaiah 61:4 tells us that Israel will rebuild their houses, i.e. the respective houses of each of the tribes of Israel, after they are restored and redeemed by God after the end of this current age when God will gather them to Himself, and plant them is good soil where they live in the valleys and ravines throughout the world and that He will teach them about the Mountains of Israel, i.e. the teaching of Israel, i.e. Christ, and will make like new again His covenant of a Kingdom of Priest and a Holy Nation and His Possession among the nations after they have repented of their sin of continual idolatrous worship since the birth of Isaac up and until the end of this current age. Because we do not understand Ezekiel 34:11-16 we argue against God and what His intentions for Israel are.
We also need to repent of our sins as well, because our understanding of God's purpose for Israel means that we are walking contrary to God and preaching a contrary message to the one set out in the scriptures.
I recently posed the question if God had a distant or near future context in mind when he first framed His covenant with Abraham and said that he would lead Abraham to an Earth that He would Show him. If the context of understanding Genesis 12:1 is wrong in that we only consider a near future context such that Abraham was to go to a land that He would show him does not sit well with other covenantal promises and prophecies found within the scriptures.
My understanding is that the contextual time framework of God's promise to Abraham of the earth that He would show him would be played out over five ages and that this time period will end still in our distant future.
Shalom
you are right. The context in which the Hebrew has been translated gives the wrong impression that Israel is entitled to retain the land of Canaan today. That the land is a gift from God. However, Genesis 15:16 tells us that some 4,000 years after the birth of Isaac that some of Abraham's descendants would return to the land, without a hint that God would be directly involved in their return. The fact of the matter, un Genesis 13, God promised to give to the descendants of Israel the land of Canaan that Abraham had walked over and seen, for a period of time that would be beyond their ability to comprehend.
God lead the Nation of Israel out of the desert to give them the Promised Land, but because of their idolatrous worship the last portion of the Land of Canaan was taken from them in 70 AD to become a devastated and desolated land for a period of around 2,000 years. Isaiah 61:4 tells us that Israel will rebuild their houses, i.e. the respective houses of each of the tribes of Israel, after they are restored and redeemed by God after the end of this current age when God will gather them to Himself, and plant them is good soil where they live in the valleys and ravines throughout the world and that He will teach them about the Mountains of Israel, i.e. the teaching of Israel, i.e. Christ, and will make like new again His covenant of a Kingdom of Priest and a Holy Nation and His Possession among the nations after they have repented of their sin of continual idolatrous worship since the birth of Isaac up and until the end of this current age. Because we do not understand Ezekiel 34:11-16 we argue against God and what His intentions for Israel are.
We also need to repent of our sins as well, because our understanding of God's purpose for Israel means that we are walking contrary to God and preaching a contrary message to the one set out in the scriptures.
I recently posed the question if God had a distant or near future context in mind when he first framed His covenant with Abraham and said that he would lead Abraham to an Earth that He would Show him. If the context of understanding Genesis 12:1 is wrong in that we only consider a near future context such that Abraham was to go to a land that He would show him does not sit well with other covenantal promises and prophecies found within the scriptures.
My understanding is that the contextual time framework of God's promise to Abraham of the earth that He would show him would be played out over five ages and that this time period will end still in our distant future.
Shalom
Did you NOT pay attention?
Jews call themselves, what THEY decide.
Others call Jews, what OTHERS decide.
Jews DID NOT in Scripture CALL THEMSELVES "Christians"....OTHERS DID.
Jews WHO Follow after Christ TODAY, DO NOT CALL THEMSELVES "Christians".
Some CALL Jews, A Tribe, An Israelite, Children of Israel, A particular Blood-Line...
And SOME OTHERS, DO CALL JEWS a "RACE".
You do not LIVE in the US, nor are subject to Rulings of the US Supreme Court.
And I specifically notified you, IN THE US, A JEW who has a CASE before the USSC, such JEW is treated AS belonging to a RACE of people.
A race is a grouping of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into categories generally viewed as distinct by society.
If that Offends you or you disagree with the USSC, take it up with them.
I was not speaking of the Religion of anyone.
That is False. A Jew has blood-line descendantship from the Tribe of Judah, whether or not they practice their Religion.
Never said it was.
Judaism is a religion primarily accounted to Jews (but any other person can JOIN and practice Judaism)
Islam is a religion primarily accounted to Muslims (but any other person can JOIN and practice Islam)
Christianity is a religion primarily accounted to Gentiles (but any other person can JOIN and practice Christianity)
Never said it was!
Buddha is a Title. Buddhaism is a Religion. (Like any religion, ANYONE can become a convert and follow any Religion)
Anti-semitic is simply A person being AGAINST another person simply because the other belongs to a particular "identified" group of people....race, religion, tribe, whatever.
THE US laws are fashioned with such language to protect individual "groups" From an unjust outcome in a court proceeding.
If that is unfavorable to you, too bad.
While you are pushing your hate and anger you seem to be the one in need of Jesus' direction to Love all others.
Glory to God,
Taken
Earburner
Well-Known Member
It is a Historic conundrum
Thee Lord God, expressly separated His People, from all other people...
Hey...other people made their "own gods".
Hey...Thee Lord Gods People scattered.
Hey...People's mix, individuals elect their own "gods"...assimilate.
Hey...Jesus appears to the Lost Jews.
Hey...Some Jews follow after Him.
Hey...Others treat the followers of Jesus poorly
Hey...It's too hard for the Jews.
Hey...The Gentiles are digging this Son of the Jewish God.
Hey...A multitude of Gentiles separate from the Jews and ACCEPT the Son of the Jewish God AND ACCEPT the Jews God as the Gentile God.
Hey...the Gentiles pick up where the Jews deflected....teaching God and His Son and His Christ are THEE ONE Lord God Almighty.
Hey...WHAT is going on?
Gentiles who have ACCEPTED Thee Jewish Lord God Almighty....NOW Loving their Jewish brothers....OR WAGGING a Damnination Finger at the Jews?
The PROBLEM IS:
People seem to FORGET...GODS ROLL in the matter.
God had provided men "HIS WORD" from the beginning of mankind.
Individual men CHOOSE to open their ears and listen, consider, follow...OR NOT.
Regardless of the "group" identity; individuals, go along, or reject.
It is Individuals that God "hardens the hearts" of those who CHOOSE to reject Him.
Hardening of hearts...has happened to umpteen millions of People, regardless of what "group" that individuals identify with.
Hardening of hearts, happened to millions of Gentiles, and since Jesus physically left this earth, Blinding of eyes, has happened to millions of Jews. Millions of Jews KEEPING their Belief and Faith IN God, but BLIND to Seeing Jesus as their Christ Messiah.
Hardening of Hearts, is Gods ACT, for those who Reject Him.
Blinding of Eyes, is Christ's ACT, for those who Reject Him.
A Gentile who accepts THEE Lord God, was given no Authority to BE a JEWS teacher to "open" their Eyes to Christ Jesus....OR hate them For being "blinded".
Thee Lord God Himself, Has His OWN PLAN for "opening their Eyes"...after they have once again experienced a Tribulation for having Rejected Christ.
A man Converted IN Christ...teaching and preaching AGAINST a blinded Jew, IS the complete opposite of what Christ Jesus taught Converted men to do.
Glory to God,
Taken
The given name Jesus means “savior”; it is the Greek equivalent of Jeshua (Heb. yēšûa˓, from yehôšua˓ “Yahweh saves” [= Joshua]). Christ is a title, indicating that he is the “anointed one,” the Messiah (from Heb. māšiaḥ).
Myers, A. C. (1987). In The Eerdmans Bible dictionary (p. 573). Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans.
The question was can you reveal in Scripture what you claimed. No would have been a sufficient answer.
For starters consider these scriptures.
“and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they were all drinking from the spiritual rock that followed them, and the rock was Christ.” (1 Corinthians 10:4)
“Now I desire to remind you (even though you have been fully informed of these facts once for all) that Jesus, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, later destroyed those who did not believe.” (Jude 5)
Many people are not forgetful but rather simply ignorant and have little or no interest in being other than that. How many ever read about early schools in the United States being established so that children could know how to read the Bible for themselves? Has there been a change of emphasis? Has there been a move to establish some things as first things that were never before considered first things?
"And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed." Gen 32:28
bq[y Ya`aqob (yah-ak-obe'); Proper Name Masculine, Strong #: 3290
Jacob = "heel holder" or "supplanter"
larXy Yisra'el (yis-raw-ale'); Proper Name Masculine, Strong #: 3478
Israel = "God prevails"
A change was made in the physical name which should correspond at least as a type or shadow of the real change available for the hearts of men.
Was the man Jacob, even in the scripture thereafter always called Israel or did he still usually stick with "Jacob"? See my count as per a study I did some years ago:
Jacob was first mentioned in Gen 25:26. Jacob was last mentioned in Gen 50:24.
Israel was first mentioned in Gen 32:28. Israel was last mentioned in Gen 50:25
The word Jacob was used 181 times in the whole Book of Genesis.
The word Jacob was used 70 times in Gen 32:28 to 50:26 when the other name had also been given.
The word Israel was used 40 times in Gen 32:28 to 50:26.
The word Jacob was used 196 times from Exodus to Revelation.
The word Israel was used 2533 times from Exodus to Revelation.
The word Jacob was used 377 times in the whole Bible.
The word Israel was used 2576 times in the whole Bible.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Since this issue come up again I am responding.
Judah is not a country and never was. It is a district\region within Israel. The land of the tribe of Judah.
While Judah and Israel suffered division, Judah never became a separate country.
By prophecy, the houses of Israel and Judah will be reunited and Israel once more.
But they did become two kingdoms according to scripture, each with its own king and army, and they fought wars against one another killing each other. The first king of the northern 10 tribes, Jeroboam, worked hard to keep the two separate as the king in the south was Solomon's heir. Jeroboam was not. He removed the Levites from the priesthood and had two calves prepared for the people to worship to discourage them from going south to Jerusalem where the temple of Solomon and rightful priesthood from the sons of Aaron [and Levi] still followed some of what God had given to Moses in the proper ways to live and worship the One God.
When the 10 northern tribes, whose kingdom was called Israel, were defeated and many of them carried into captivity by the Assyrians, the kingdom of Judah under its king in the south continued on as an self governing entity until finally defeated and destroyed by the Babylonians.
You can say they were not two countries, but I would guess that depends upon your definition of a country.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Technically not two countries, probably a divided nation at Civil War is more accurate.
In the New Testament it is the country of Israel, not Judah.
Kinda like in the US after the Civil War. The South declared themselves a new country with their own army and government with the North rejecting it. Legally it was always one country.
The bottom line here is I go with the Bible and the Bible says Israel is the country.
In truth all pretty messed up and confusing.
