see it is very Biblical.. he does not force him self on us..he draws us through conviction .but it is not of force and yes saved by grace but grace does not handcuff you
Calvinism is a Cult
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Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
It's unbiblical.
"Force?" "Handcuff?" Nowhere was this implied. Somehow this entered your brain and you think Calvinist's teach it.
So you're merely arguing from a false premise, then concluding from a false premise.
No one is saved by choice. Read your bible. Try John 1:13 first, it plainly refutes you.
That MISTRANSLATION by the NIV is quite misleading.
The Hebrew literally says "Behold, in iniquity I was brought forth, and in sin my mother conceived me."
This is paralleled by the KJV: Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.
So what this means essentially is that every child is born with a sin nature, and that all human beings are sinners by birth. The NIV is absurdly alleging that babies are committing sins from birth.
And God already knows the human condition, but He has made provision through the blood of Christ for babies and very young children. They are simply redeemed by His grace, since they cannot exercise faith in Christ.
Oh please, your breaking my heart. Let me shed a tear.
You don't want any part of Christianity anyway. You think you are fooling anyone. I'm glad I make it easy for you. So, why are you here? And why are you posting in a Christian area. You can't follow, and don't want to follow simple rules.
You are not a disciple of Christ and I have no love for you. Does that upset you? Doesn't me.
Stranger
Jun2u
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="Enoch111, post: 528483, member: 7853"]Let's look at Psalm 58:3 carefully before we jump to any conclusions:
1. This verse is specifically about "the wicked", NOT all human beings (who are simply lost sinners).[/QUOTE]
Already on this first item, your understanding of Scripture even as others is flawed!!!
What you are doing is literally telling God He does not know what He is talking about because @Enoch111 is saying not all who are lost are wicked and sinners. Yet God explicitly says they are. Every person that is to be born in history is wicked. That is God’s assessment of the human race.
Proof... Before a person becomes saved he is in enmity with God, or “As in Adam all die” (without exception).
Support verse: Jeremiah 17:9-10:
09) “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”
10) “I the Lord search the heart… “
And guess what? God will find each and every person wicked even before they are conceived!
Concerning Nineveh, what condition were they before the whole city repented? That’s right, wicked were they not?
Shall I continue? I guess not.
To God Be The Glory
1. This verse is specifically about "the wicked", NOT all human beings (who are simply lost sinners).[/QUOTE]
Already on this first item, your understanding of Scripture even as others is flawed!!!
What you are doing is literally telling God He does not know what He is talking about because @Enoch111 is saying not all who are lost are wicked and sinners. Yet God explicitly says they are. Every person that is to be born in history is wicked. That is God’s assessment of the human race.
Proof... Before a person becomes saved he is in enmity with God, or “As in Adam all die” (without exception).
Support verse: Jeremiah 17:9-10:
09) “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”
10) “I the Lord search the heart… “
And guess what? God will find each and every person wicked even before they are conceived!
Concerning Nineveh, what condition were they before the whole city repented? That’s right, wicked were they not?
Shall I continue? I guess not.
To God Be The Glory
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Exactly. All are under the same wrath outside of Christ; Ephesians 2:3. Note also Matthew 7:11 which speaks of being morally wicked, and Jeremiah 17:9 shows the seat of our wickedness is our hearts.
The thing is @Enoch111 is comparing is himself to others, not self to God. Therefore he considers himself better than others, and others worse than himself, and then better off before God by his implications.
This is why these think they have ability to come to God, and believe that they've always loved God, denying the word which shows man is unable to come, and at enmity with God. In other words they think they are not only able but worthy to approach in their ability. That teaching is sickening.
That's what I figured. I have him on "ignore" so I don't see his posts, as I might be tempted to answer him. He just takes you in circles--apparently by design. Don't know why he is angry with God (there's likely a story there) but I really find his constant harping, "I don't have enough evidence" to be boring after a while.
no i am not arguing false anything ..i have read my Bible so when you got saved did anyone force you to pray or did you just happen to know one day you got saved w/o ding any thing.. God leads through his Holy Spirit .the lead is a choice to obey. paul wrote quench not the spirit. he calls we answer yes or no..please understand i been down this road many times..
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Nope, sorry friend. You are arguing and offering falsities, no Calvinist's teaches force, or handcuffs. That's merely your false assertions. It's an attempt to falsely malign others as if you won some argument. But it is all a straw man fabrication.
And not one Scripture.
None.
Zilch.
Nada.
No one is saved via choosing. John 1:13. James 1:18. 1 Peter 1:3. Romans 9:16. John 6:63. And belief is God's work; John 6:29; Ephesians 1:19.
You may have been down this road many times, but you have zero Scripture and Scripture refutes your teaching that man chooses himself into heaven.
Sorry friend, but on this road where you've been a long time? Well, you're wrong.
One last thing, no man is free in his will, or in any sense until in Christ; John 8:36. Jesus says we are not free until he sets us free. You say we are. Then you tell people all they have to do is decide to go to heaven because they're free. Hmmm. Who to believe, you or Christ?
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okkkkkkkkk how do we believe
believe
BELIE'VE, v.t. To credit upon the authority or testimony of another; to be persuaded of the truth of something upon the declaration of another, or upon evidence furnished by reasons, arguments, and deductions of the mind, or by other circumstances, than personal knowledge. When we believe upon the authority of another, we always put confidence in his veracity.
When we believe upon the authority of reasoning, arguments, or a concurrence of facts and circumstances, we rest our conclusions upon their strength or probability, their agreement with our own experience, &c.
2. To expect or hope with confidence; to trust.
I had fainted, unless I had believed to see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Ps.27. by faith we make the choice BELIE'VED, pp. Credited; assented to, as true. by faith we make the choice.its ok believes
πιστεύων (pisteuōn)
Verb - Present Participle Active - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 4100: From pistis; to have faith, i.e. Credit; by implication, to entrust. everyone
πᾶς (pas)
Adjective - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 3956: All, the whole, every kind of. Including all the forms of declension; apparently a primary word; all, any, every, the whole.
who
ὁ (ho)
Article - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's Greek 3588: The, the definite article. Including the feminine he, and the neuter to in all their inflections; the definite article; the.
lol strawman that cracks me up.. i use see that in carm forum my stuff is made up of gold silver and precious stone
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
Not one Scripture.
Everything above is about, well, you. Not the Gospel, not God, not Scripture. You.
A definition of belief doesn't equal choosing one's self into heaven. All you're doing is fighting tooth and nail to tell others what you did, not giving all glory to God. Will you continue to tell us what you did, fight for your ability, tell us how you chose? You, you, and some more you?
You have zero scripture to show that man chooses his way into heaven. Why? There are none. Why? They all point to God. Another passage for you to meditate on, carefully; 1 Corinthians 1:26-31. Show us in there where it says because of you, or because you chose. Nope. Because he chose.
I fully expect for you to fight and offer up another response about how you did it. You cannot get past your false notions and self.
Preacher4Truth
Well-Known Member
It's cool, laugh. Your arguments are straw man. You bring nothing to the table but rudimentary misunderstandings, and zero Bible.
Why?
Your gospel is about you, not about God, not directly from the word. It's all about you and how you did it.
Bottom line? Your "stuff" is made of all you. No Scripture. You. All about you. That's all you've offered bro.
Now, again, I fully expect your next argument to be about you again, what you did, your free will and nothing biblical. That is your gospel: you.
Mike Dwight
Member
John Knox did say You and God makes a Majority. Andrew Jackson said a man with courage make a majority. Calvinists themselves and pretending to know stuff is a majority.
What was his closing, haha, may God "stop me" and "Guide me" or was it, may God "prohibit me", somebody give this guy the toddler helmet. May God Overrule me probably.
What was his closing, haha, may God "stop me" and "Guide me" or was it, may God "prohibit me", somebody give this guy the toddler helmet. May God Overrule me probably.
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your right so i will just pretend i am a Calvinist and i can never be wrong . Calvinism the only group who redefines definitions. maybe you have you convinced ..i dunno all i know the night i got saved i heard God say its NOW OR NEVER -------i took the now "Because I called and you refused, I stretched out my hand and no one paid attention; Proverbs 1:24 maybe you can redefine CALL and you refused
break out the Calvinism book of definitions ..lol this reminds when i posted in carm..still can just got bored with it..i did give away free seeing eye dogs.. they was blinded :cool:Similar threads
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