Israel is the Church

[amadeus]

Technically not two countries, probably a divided nation at Civil War is more accurate.

In the New Testament it is the country of Israel, not Judah.

Kinda like in the US after the Civil War. The South declared themselves a new country with their own army and government with the North rejecting it. Legally it was always one country.

The bottom line here is I go with the Bible and the Bible says Israel is the country.

In truth all pretty messed up and confusing.

I see your point but do disagree. Many will still say that The Confederate States of America were in fact a legally established nation. If they had not lost the war, would there have been any doubt? According to many in England I am certain it was long after England quit fighting against the American Colonies south of Canada that the United States was still not a legally established nation. The War of 1812 was perhaps in a way one more try at recovering and/or making definitely legal her claim as our sovereign head. You get my point? Rehoboam wanted to do the same thing against the 10 tribes in the north God but told him to lay off... to leave them alone. God divided the nation of Israel politically because of the sins of Solomon, but Jeroboam took it on himself to divide also the people of God. That was of course a "no no"...!

 

[CoreIssue]

I see your point but do disagree. Many will still say that The Confederate States of America were in fact a legally established nation. If they had not lost the war, would there have been any doubt? According to many in England I am certain it was long after England quit fighting against the American Colonies south of Canada that the United States was still not a legally established nation. The War of 1812 was perhaps in a way one more try at recovering and/or making definitely legal her claim as our sovereign head. You get my point? Rehoboam wanted to do the same thing against the 10 tribes in the north but told him to lay off... to leave them alone. God divided the nation of Israel politically because of the sins of Solomon, but Jeroboam took it on himself to divided also the people of God. That was of course a "no no"...!

I from the state that was neither North or South that declared slavery illegal from the beginning.

That being Indiana, which means land of Indians.

Most of the people who chose to fight in that war fought for the north.

I now live in Georgia, where the Civil War is a huge issue, including minorities and liberals wanting to tear down monuments.

Turning to the legal, it does not matter that many consider it legal. It was absolutely illegal per the Constitution which all southern states were under when they decided they were just going to walk away.

There were no Saints in that war.

If they have won the war they would have had to rejoin the union because the South does not possess the resources to be independent.

Having lived in Scotland I can tell you there are still some who think we are a British colony.

To this day there are French speakers in Canada that want Québec to be a separate country.

In the 60s radical Blacks wanted to separate the Gold Coast of Chicago into a black only nation.

There is a movement to split California off into a country. Another two divided into two new states. Another three new states.

There are still some in Puerto Rico that want independence.

I understand your point and that's why I said this was all confusing. And why I said the bottom line for me was the Bible never stopped calling the total land Israel.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

I was not speaking of the Religion of anyone.



That is False. A Jew has blood-line descendantship from the Tribe of Judah, whether or not they practice their Religion.



Never said it was.

Judaism is a religion primarily accounted to Jews (but any other person can JOIN and practice Judaism)
Islam is a religion primarily accounted to Muslims (but any other person can JOIN and practice Islam)
Christianity is a religion primarily accounted to Gentiles (but any other person can JOIN and practice Christianity)



Never said it was!
Buddha is a Title. Buddhaism is a Religion. (Like any religion, ANYONE can become a convert and follow any Religion)



Anti-semitic is simply A person being AGAINST another person simply because the other belongs to a particular "identified" group of people....race, religion, tribe, whatever.

THE US laws are fashioned with such language to protect individual "groups" From an unjust outcome in a court proceeding.

If that is unfavorable to you, too bad.



While you are pushing your hate and anger you seem to be the one in need of Jesus' direction to Love all others.

Glory to God,
Taken

It has nothing to do with hate or anger, it's about facts.

Anti-Semitic is about a race ! not a religion at all and it's got nothing at all to do with religion and I don't know of any religion that peddles a race at all.

Race does not come into religion at all.
Only racist morons peddle that crap.

The USA comes out with some hair brained expressions, like African American ? so you have some dumb moron claiming to be an African American who is in fact an American of African decent truly and as a matter of fact ! now is it wrong for me to point out a fact of reality ? or should we all swallow the moronic madness of incorrect gibberish that is spread by bogans who do not understand the reality or are willing to spin such nonsense that contradict the fact of reality. that's the game that Satanist Communist play to get the meaning of a word twisted up in that many twist and turns so they can spin just trash and play games with such.

So why put your race before your Nation ? that's bigoted insanity ! no to mention moronic to the extreme of madness.

The Land was not given to Israel as a race ? who was it that gave the Land ? and why ? because they were a people of God but they turned their back on God and that's why they failed, only a un educated ignorant satanic moron would not know that is a fact.

Look all that had to happen was that the Jews take on Jesus and bingo ! they would never of been kicked out of the land that was promised to Gods people, that's Gods people ? understand ! his people ? the ones who believe in God ! not the ones who reject God or his Son. do you understand that reality.

Why would God support a people who reject him and his Son and put such back in the Land ? hey ! does that ring alarm bells, does God ? support they who reject him ? no ! mans works does that.

Where in the Bible does God support them that reject him or reward such ? no ! only man's works does that.

 

[Dave L]

"And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed." Gen 32:28

bq[y Ya`aqob (yah-ak-obe'); Proper Name Masculine, Strong #: 3290

Jacob = "heel holder" or "supplanter"
larXy Yisra'el (yis-raw-ale'); Proper Name Masculine, Strong #: 3478

Israel = "God prevails"
A change was made in the physical name which should correspond at least as a type or shadow of the real change available for the hearts of men.

Was the man Jacob, even in the scripture thereafter always called Israel or did he still usually stick with "Jacob"? See my count as per a study I did some years ago:

Jacob was first mentioned in Gen 25:26. Jacob was last mentioned in Gen 50:24.
Israel was first mentioned in Gen 32:28. Israel was last mentioned in Gen 50:25

The word Jacob was used 181 times in the whole Book of Genesis.
The word Jacob was used 70 times in Gen 32:28 to 50:26 when the other name had also been given.
The word Israel was used 40 times in Gen 32:28 to 50:26.

The word Jacob was used 196 times from Exodus to Revelation.
The word Israel was used 2533 times from Exodus to Revelation.

The word Jacob was used 377 times in the whole Bible.
The word Israel was used 2576 times in the whole Bible.

The given name Jesus means “savior”; it is the Greek equivalent of Jeshua (Heb. yēšûa˓, from yehôšua˓ “Yahweh saves” [= Joshua]). Christ is a title, indicating that he is the “anointed one,” the Messiah (from Heb. māšiaḥ).

Myers, A. C. (1987). In The Eerdmans Bible dictionary (p. 573). Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans.

 

[Taken]

It has nothing to do with hate or anger, it's about facts.

Anti-Semitic is about a race ! not a religion at all and it's got nothing at all to do with religion and I don't know of any religion that peddles a race at all.

Race does not come into religion at all.
Only racist morons peddle that crap.

The USA comes out with some hair brained expressions, like African American ? so you have some dumb moron claiming to be an African American who is in fact an American of African decent truly and as a matter of fact ! now is it wrong for me to point out a fact of reality ? or should we all swallow the moronic madness of incorrect gibberish that is spread by bogans who do not understand the reality or are willing to spin such nonsense that contradict the fact of reality. that's the game that Satanist Communist play to get the meaning of a word twisted up in that many twist and turns so they can spin just trash and play games with such.

So why put your race before your Nation ? that's bigoted insanity ! no to mention moronic to the extreme of madness.

The Land was not given to Israel as a race ? who was it that gave the Land ? and why ? because they were a people of God but they turned their back on God and that's why they failed, only a un educated ignorant satanic moron would not know that is a fact.

Look all that had to happen was that the Jews take on Jesus and bingo ! they would never of been kicked out of the land that was promised to Gods people, that's Gods people ? understand ! his people ? the ones who believe in God ! not the ones who reject God or his Son. do you understand that reality.

Why would God support a people who reject him and his Son and put such back in the Land ? hey ! does that ring alarm bells, does God ? support they who reject him ? no ! mans works does that.

Where in the Bible does God support them that reject him or reward such ? no ! only man's works does that.

You should expand your knowledge and discover the term RACE has multiple meanings. A person not using "your" chosen meaning, does not constitute the person a "moron".

RACE
a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group.

God has identified a group of people He calls "HIS PEOPLE".

Jesus has identified a group of people He calls
"HIS".

IF those "groups" being called a RACE is offensive to you. Frankly I could care less, and do not need to call you names to express I am comfortable with my own opinion.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

You should expand your knowledge and discover the term RACE has multiple meanings. A person not using "your" chosen meaning, does not constitute the person a "moron".

RACE
a group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group.

God has identified a group of people He calls "HIS PEOPLE".

Jesus has identified a group of people He calls
"HIS".

IF those "groups" being called a RACE is offensive to you. Frankly I could care less, and do not need to call you names to express I am comfortable with my own opinion.

Glory to God,
Taken

Well you can make up what ever you want.

In Australia their was what was called the Aboriginals = the original inhabitants that means.
Now they were a race ! but when the Dutch came and bread in with them they were not the same race who had always been here before and then the Pommy's came and we had grubs mating with the Aboriginals, now that was against Aboriginal law, if you bother to regard them their rights back in the day, now no one could have Sex with a woman unless the Tribe gave you that right and you had to prove yourself worthy of being a man, now I can tell you the process, but I am sure you would not care, nor do you care about the true understanding of Tribe of Israel and what they were all about in fact back in them days.
But nowadays Satan is so cunning that he can even deceive the best of us, due to his cunning. now he does this because some people are willing to discredit the facts of reality for tokens of such.
Thing is that when became bred in with another race that person is not one of the same race truly at all in fact.
Now the abos rejected the half cast as a mater of fact back in them days and killed them because it was the against Laws that keep the Tribe healthy and if they let such stupidity into the Tribe the tribe would fail, so they were sowing the seed of their destruction and would not survive in the harshness of the way that they lived, it was much the same with Israel, you were in or you were out.
But due to the ignorance of people nowadays is that they disregard the reality of Truth for a lie. so easy.
So the fact is that one is not truly an Aboriginal at all, if they are not pure bred, but now we have morons who claim to be Aboriginals when they are not at all. not to mention that these dogs walk all over the true Aboriginals dictating so much crap to them.
And it's the same with the Hebrews, that we have so many morons claiming to be, but could not even cut the mustard to even be anything as such in any way or form, truly from a start. they are a total fraud and don't even live it, nor do they want to but claim that they are like a snot nosed little brat.

Fact is it's the same with Christianity nowadays that is just so distant to Jesus Christ that it's not funny ! all that it is, is social construction or destruction in Christ in fact, their hearts and minds are far from him, hell some are looking to the so called Jews, what does that truly tell you They are totally lost ! they can not seen Jesus Christ for who he truly is in fact and are looking for another. : because he does not cut it with them and their social BS mans works.

 

[tzcho2]

hell some are looking to the so called Jews, what does that truly tell you

Ridiculous claim. No Christian that I know of are looking to the Jews.
Try reading the Bible Reggie without Anti-Semitic , bigoted preconceived notions.
There are some who give Christianity a bad name, but I'm sure, they aren't who you think.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Ridiculous claim. No Christian that I know of are looking to the Jews.
Try reading the Bible Reggie without Anti-Semitic , bigoted preconceived notions.
There are some who give Christianity a bad name, but I'm sure, they aren't who you think.

I know it for a fact that no true Christian is, but there are many that are nowadays, mainly the ones who peddle end of times crap and looking forward to the hellfire that morons like this want, I just seen he NZ crap of that moron shooting people for real, that comes across as a nut job that end of time morons wish on the world.
I have talked to end of times nuts that wish hellfire on people, but here is the catch, they claim that they will not be here to suffer it ! the poor little darlings believe that they are going to be raptured up, saving them from the hellfire. what a con job for gutless dupes.

 

[CoreIssue]

I know it for a fact that no true Christian is, but there are many that are nowadays, mainly the ones who peddle end of times crap and looking forward to the hellfire that morons like this want, I just seen he NZ crap of that moron shooting people for real, that comes across as a nut job that end of time morons wish on the world.
I have talked to end of times nuts that wish hellfire on people, but here is the catch, they claim that they will not be here to suffer it ! the poor little darlings believe that they are going to be raptured up, saving them from the hellfire. what a con job for gutless dupes.

Translation: you don't believe in the rapture therefore those that do are not jobs.

So by your definition I'm a nut job firm in his delusion.

 

[tzcho2]

I know it for a fact that no true Christian is, but there are many that are nowadays, mainly the ones who peddle end of times crap and looking forward to the hellfire that morons like this want, I just seen he NZ crap of that moron shooting people for real, that comes across as a nut job that end of time morons wish on the world.
I have talked to end of times nuts that wish hellfire on people, but here is the catch, they claim that they will not be here to suffer it ! the poor little darlings believe that they are going to be raptured up, saving them from the hellfire. what a con job for gutless dupes.

Ya, know what you mean....myself , I've talked to people claiming to be Christian who show no respect for anyone & run around calling others "morons" .

 

[farouk]

Israel isn't the church (1 Corinthians 10.32).

 

[tzcho2]

Israel isn't the church (1 Corinthians 10.32).

For some reason some, don't seem to get this. It is like they are blinded, stiff-necked or something... It seems no matter what scripture is shown to them, they continue to ignore it.

 

[Taken]

Well you can make up what ever you want.

~ get a dictionary.

 

[farouk]

For some reason some, don't seem to get this. It is like they are blinded, stiff-necked or something... It seems no matter what scripture is shown to them, they continue to ignore it.

1 Corinthians 10.32 means 1 Corinthians 10.32. :)

 

[Preacher4Truth]

1 Corinthians 10.32 means 1 Corinthians 10.32. :)

That verse isn't saying the Jews aren't the church any more than it's saying the Gentiles aren't the church. Very weak proof text. That is not the intent or meaning of the text at all.

 

[farouk]

That verse isn't saying the Jews aren't the church any more than it's saying the Gentiles aren't the church. Very weak proof text. That is not the intent or meaning of the text at all.

The three entities are not the same.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

The three entities are not the same.

Of course not, but the group's aren't "Israel and the Church." You're forcing that in there due to some dispensationalist influence you are affected by. How are those outside Christ to be the same? He's contrasting the lost with the church: give offense to none, inside or outside.

Therefore he's speaking of those outside Christ, and those in Christ. Pay attention to the context, as you're misusing the text here. Show me one commentator who holds to your out of context conclusion. You got any?

Furthermore in Romans we see Jews are in the church there, among gentiles as well, and they are both the Bride, the church. There is no distinction; Romans 10:12; we are one in the same; Ephesians 2:14.

 

[farouk]

Of course not, but the group's aren't "Israel and the Church." You're forcing that in there due to some dispensationalist influence you are affected by. How are those outside Christ to be the same? He's contrasting the lost with the church: give offense to none, inside or outside.

Therefore he's speaking of those outside Christ, and those in Christ. Pay attention to the context, as you're misusing the text here. Show me one commentator who holds to your out of context conclusion. You got any?

Furthermore in Romans we see Jews are in the church there, among gentiles as well, and they are both the Bride, the church. There is no distinction; Romans 10:12; we are one in the same; Ephesians 2:14.

They are not the same; three entities are named separately.

 

[Preacher4Truth]

They are not the same; three entities are named separately.

OK, carry on. Keep on misusing Scripture, you refuse to listen to context or rightly handle the word. You have no case other than clear and willful denial.

 

[farouk]

OK, carry on. Keep on misusing Scripture, you refuse to listen to context or rightly handle the word. You have no case other than clear and willful denial.

Many dispensationalists see that verse in this way. Even without it, how the church functions in Scripture, how Israel functions and how Gentiles function are clearly distinct to dispensational readers.