Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists.

[tzcho2]

God the father will remarry Israel, not Christ. He was never married to Israel. Did not exist before the incarnation.

That's right, why so many don't know this. God is faithful & merciful and His love never dies. He is husband to Israel. This should be our example of marriage.

 

[n2thelight]

God the father will remarry Israel, not Christ. He was never married to Israel. Did not exist before the incarnation.

I and the Father are one,means what to you?

In other words you saying God will have a bride and Christ will have a bride as well?

 

[Copperhead]

It's NO Israel perse from what you saying,Christians are Israel and if you don't see that you gonna stay blinded..

Would you then please explain how, if we as believers are the only Israel that counts, did we then also reject Yeshua and have to acknowledge that rejection before He will return?

Hosea 5:14 - 6:2 For I will be like a lion to Ephraim,
And like a young lion to the house of Judah.
I, even I, will tear them and go away;
I will take them away, and no one shall rescue.
15 I will return again to My place
Till they acknowledge their offense.
Then they will seek My face;
In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.”
1 Come, and let us return to the Lord; For He has torn, but He will heal us;
He has stricken, but He will bind us up.
2 After two days He will revive us;
On the third day He will raise us up,
That we may live in His sight.

Which is expounded on by Yeshua.....

Matthew 23:37-39 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! 38 See! Your house is left to you desolate; 39 for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’

I would contend that the literal, physical Hebrew people, especially the leadership, has a function yet to do. And it is to finally as a corporate body turn to Yeshua. I believe that is the focus of what the tribulation period is all about. To drive the Hebrews to the wall till they repent and call for Yeshua.

Now that alone would suggest that up to that point, most of the Hebrew people have not accepted Yeshua. So even though they are unbelieving now, they still are part of the plan and they will come to believe. Ezekiel even explains how the Hebrew people would initially be brought back into the land in unbelief during the latter days. So it might not be such a wise idea for those in the body to diss physical Israel and lay claim to what is theirs. It would seem that would be sticking a finger in the eye of God. Oh wait... He said that in Zechariah! What a coincidence.

 

[n2thelight]

I would contend that the literal, physical Hebrew people, especially the leadership, has a function yet to do. And it is to finally as a corporate body turn to Yeshua.

We all ALL must return to Christ,and where are these physical hebrew people?

The leadership of those Jew's in that state of Israel have plans now to build a temple,to whom is this temple for?

My point is nobody is special right now,either you believe in Christ who is the ONLY way to the Father or you don't,Period!!!!

And I will address the other part of your post....

 

[n2thelight]

Romans 2:11 "For there is no respect of persons with God."

 

[Naomi25]

The gospel of Matthew is generally considered to be the gospel to the Jews. Why would the Rapture be a feature of that gospel since most of Judah will NOT experience the Pre-Tribulation Rapture?

That argument would only make sense if God did not intend to offer the same salvation to the Jews as he did the Gentiles. But, as we can see from the Apostles and even Paul, clearly he did. Paul made a point; even though he was the "apostle to the Gentiles" to stop of the synagogues 'first'. And, every time, from Pentecost forward to this day, that a Jew becomes a Christian and becomes part of the Church...the body of Christ, we see again and again what Paul told us repeatedly: there is neither Jew nor Gentile in Christ; only one body. And since there is only one way to God...Jesus Christ, and all must come to him to be saved, we therefore can see that any different 'salvational' scheme for the Jewish people is discounted.
Therefore, suggesting that the book of Matthew is telling a different story for a different people for a different salvational plan is not really valid.

 

[Naomi25]

The proof of when this prophecy will happen, is when Death will be no more, at the GWT Judgement, AFTER the Millennium. Revelation 20:11-15

Sure. The proof will always be WHEN it takes place. The same could have been said for Christ's first coming; with the Pharisees saying "sure, all those prophecies SAY all that stuff, but the proof will be when he's standing before us with all those credentials". Except....a person who is not willing to believe God's word on faith doesn't tend to believe even when Christ is standing before them chastising them for not knowing the signs of his visitation.

But as far as BIBLICAL proof...I'm not sure how you can get anymore cut and dried. "Then AT HIS COMING...those who belong to him". Who are the "those" being spoken of? Those who are to be resurrected from the dead. This is rather interesting, is it not? This implies dead...the dead in Christ. Of course, we know from 1 Thess 4:17 that the dead in Christ and the alive in Christ go "up" together...sort of a 1-2 punch. But, also in this same passage, 1 Cor 15, Paul doesn't leave us hanging in regards to those of us still alive in Christ when this happens. Because, that would be a natural question, wouldn't it? Christ returns, the dead believers get their shinny upgrade...what about us? Paul goes on to tell us..."we shall not all sleep (which we know to be a euphemism for death), but we shall all be changed." What is he talking about? The defeat of death, that's what. The moment we get our shinny new bodies, that will never wear out or die...that's when death will have lost all sting and bark. It will never again claim another soul. It has been defeated. Now...sure...I think this is the same time it will be tossed into the lake of fire...that just makes sense. But irrespective of that, you simply cannot wave your hand and dismiss the fact that Paul links the return of Christ, the Rapture, the resurrection of the dead with the defeat of death. It's all right there.

We know exactly who those people are who belong to Christ, that He will bring back to life at His Return.
Revelation 20:4-5 ...I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus....THEY came back to life and reigned with Jesus for the 1000 years. The rest of the dead did NOT come back to life until the 1000 years had ended.
THIS is the first resurrection.

The belief of a 'rapture, resurrection' of all the Church at Jesus' Return, is not scriptural and cannot happen.
Even Daniel12:13 has to wait until the end of days. [time]

But what happens if the 1000 years ends when Christ returns? The implication in 1 Cor 15 is just that. And, well, the rest of the verses just slide right in very neatly.
And I object: I think scripture is very clear: when a person puts their faith in Christ, they pass from death to life...THAT is the first resurrection.

 

[Keraz]

God the father will remarry Israel, not Christ. He was never married to Israel. Did not exist before the incarnation.

Wow, you just showed your ignorance of who Jesus is.
Jesus is the Beginning and the end; John 1:1, Revelation 21:6
Jesus was in the cloud that guided the Israelites. 1 Corinthians 10:4
Jesus is the Bridegroom. Matthew 25:1-5

Belief in a separate Church of God and the Israel of God, leads to serious error and confusion. You only succeed to make yourself look silly.

 

[Keraz]

But as far as BIBLICAL proof...I'm not sure how you can get anymore cut and dried. "Then AT HIS COMING...those who belong to him". Who are the "those" being spoken of? Those who are to be resurrected from the dead.

1 Corinthians 15:23 does NOT say; all the dead in Christ - just those who belong to Him will be raised at His coming.
Who they will be is clearly stated in Rev 20:4. Belief that more that those martyrs are raised then, is unscriptural and cannot happen.

 

[friend of]

Now...sure...I think this is the same time it will be tossed into the lake of fire...that just makes sense. But irrespective of that, you simply cannot wave your hand and dismiss the fact that Paul links the return of Christ, the Rapture, the resurrection of the dead with the defeat of death. It's all right there.

Your position is interesting and I do respect it as I am not a hardliner. But remember it says "the dead in Christ" not "all the dead"

If this were describing the time of the end of death itself, wouldn' that verse mention them as well?

"Blessed are those who take part in the FIRST resurrection" implies there is another after.

 

[friend of]

But what happens if the 1000 years ends when Christ returns? The implication in 1 Cor 15 is just that. And, well, the rest of the verses just slide right in very neatly.

Scripture says we will reign with Him for 1000 years, so when Christ returns it STARTS the 1000 year reign, not ends it.

when a person puts their faith in Christ, they pass from death to life...THAT is the first resurrection

But we have not been changed in the "twinkling of the eye" Paul describes passing from this state into an entirely different one, so I dont think it's the same thing as being spiritually alive through faith while in this body.

 

[bbyrd009]

Well, as far as I'm aware, 'harpazo' is used in 1 Thess 4:17 when speaking of this 'rapture'...rather than just 'rapture'

that is the point, yes; "rapture" is an English xlation of roots that are not harpazo in Scripture

The Greek word does mean: to seize, catch up, snatch away, which, to my way of thinking does not speak to a joyous rapture.

^

so...a physial snatching away IS in view here.

well, with two eyes, certainly. Keep looking up?

Well, I think perhaps they are only being conflated in your mind because you are playing the two off one another.

Um wait they're being conflated in my mind? Sorry?

But, I think that the bible speaks of the spiritual joy we can have in Christ as something entirely separate than the times it speaks of Christ's return and our being 'harpazo'-ed (if I can put it that way!) to him, or 'gathered to' him. One of the ways we can determine this 'harpazo' is different to just a spiritual feeling is because it is often spoken of at the same time as reference to our new, resurrection bodies...our 'imperishable' bodies. To the 'defeat of death'. Things...physical things...that we do not see or have now. I think that even you must agree that while many of the promises of God are 'yes and amen' right now in Christ and we have acess to them and can experience them spiritually in Christ, there are some physical promises that just haven't come to pass yet. Like the defeat of death. And scripture tells us that that won't occur until perishable puts on imperishable. Paul even tells us that all creation is groaning and longing for this time! How can we not long for it as well?

what did the preacher say when you were coming up out of the water, Naomi?

 

[bbyrd009]

bbyrd, I don't believe for one second that you are silly enough to think that just because a particular word doesn't show up in a sentence, then an idea or meaning cannot be gotten across

hey, you have to interpret the fact that when you go looking for a Return in Scripture all you can find under that particular root is Return to Me, and I will return to you x2 for yourself, imo in consideration of all the other Scripture that pertains to it, won't come by observation, why do you stand there looking up, etc

 

[bbyrd009]

I'm not sure I understand you here, sorry. What do you mean, why does scripture describe a difference sense of rapture than harpazo?

@amadeus , I wonder if you could help here ty

 

[bbyrd009]

Are you perhaps referring to the fact that scripture ALSO describes an emotional state?

emotional state, hmm. Funny you say that, imo it is ppl doing that, not Scripture

now we experience joy in Christ, and at some point in the future we will experience a harpazo.

Another imo telling use of harpazo is "...and violent men take it by force," which sorry I'm on the run now and you know the v anyway I guess right, or google does

 

[bbyrd009]

So...you think that once we're done here, that's it? That we'd better find 'spiritual rapture' in this life now, cause there's nothing coming after it?

Man, this always comes next I guess. No Naomi, I do not yet know what I will become, but imo you'd better find the right Scriptural use of "rapture" right now, today, yes

 

[bbyrd009]

Because if it is, my friend...you are missing out on some wonderful promises of God for our future. If you think things are good in God now, consider what it would be like with no sickness, death or sin.

boy, I'm not sure how things could get any better for me right now tbh, what do you lack to have pressed down shaken together and running over right now? "Tomorrow comes today" imo.

You have a pastor right, go ask him what he says when he's ritually baptizing ppl.
Today imo.

 

[Copperhead]

We all ALL must return to Christ,and where are these physical hebrew people?

I don't worry about it. Not in my pay grade to keep track of them. I really don't care to interfere with something that is the Lord's problem and not mine. His word is on the line. Either He lied in those verses I posted or He will see it come to pass.

But based on your response, I would gather you think the idea is rubbish. That's ok. I am not offended. Just make sure that you are not offending the Lord. The passages are pretty simple and clear.

But those passages are there, and all you did was conveniently side step them. That will not make them go away.

Also, if the passage you showed about YHVH not being the respecter of any person is to be applied, then why did Yeshua say of John the Baptist...

Matthew 11:11 “Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

So by posting these scriptures; am I an anti-Semitic bigot?

No--it is your "interpretation" of the Scriptures that makes you an anti-Semitic bigot.
You and your Calvinist friends would rather your theology would be "proved" than that God's plan for the saving of Israel would go forward. You consistently misrepresent what I am saying. For example, I never denied one bit of Scripture, yet you have apparently failed to read and absorb the passage in Jeremiah that denies your claims. I am putting you back on "ignore" for saying that I tell "lies and falsehoods". I may respond to you at some future time, but not at present.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

You can't replace whats already there!!!!!

Is the Church not of Abrahams seed?

Jeremiah 3:11 "And the LORD said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah."

The House of Judah should have known better, because the House of Israel doesn't even know who they are, any longer. They don't know, understand, or even care who they are. Most people of the House of Israel just want to get by from one day to the next. They don't care about their rewards, their inheritance, or the promises that God made to them through our forefathers. It is time to come alive and prepare yourself for that latter rain that is necessary to understand for the latter days.

God is saying, as bad as it was for those ten tribes of Israel, it is worse for treacherous Judah because she knew better.

Jeremiah 3:12 "Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever."

Our Heavenly Father is so loving, that even after He has,(in the way of an analogy), been a husband that has been treated in this way, He is still asking His bride to come on home. He still loves each of His children, and He will put those sins of our past away, and He will provide for us forever. Our Father truly is that way, He loves His children and there is forgiveness in His heart. Though the law forbids man to do this, as we saw in Deuteronomy 24, God can and will take you back, no matter what the sin.

Jeremiah 3:13 "Only acknowledge thine iniquity, that thou hast transgressed against the LORD thy God, and hast scattered thy ways to the strangers under every green tree, and ye have not obeyed my voice, saith the LORD."

What this is saying is that you must ask God for forgiveness, which means that you must repent of those sins in your life. If you don't repent He will not forgive you nor bless you.

Don't be so foolish that you can think that you can hide anything from God, because He created you, and He can read every thought and intent that comes into your mind. He knows your sins, and He wants you to acknowledge them to Him, then ask forgiveness for those sins. You confess to God, not to man, and God has already promised you that He will forgive you and take you back. You must admit that you are not innocent and fell short. Christ is the only one that was innocent and perfect in every way, yet He is the one that was able to pay the price for our sins.

Jeremiah 3:14 "Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:"

God is promising that He will restore everything back to all of His backsliding children, if they will just return to Him. Remember that the sins that His children have committed are the two evils of Jeremiah 2:13 that the people had committed. He was angry about the subject. Those two evils were when you put some other belief or god before the living God.

False religions will do that to you, even if you call it Christianity. They teach you to worship a system rather then the creator. These organizations have been allowed to become more important than God Himself, and those organizations were established to direct others to God, but you come to the point of making their system the salvation of your soul. Only God and His Word can save you, by repentance in Jesus name. When you repent, He will take you back.

Jeremiah 3:15 "And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding."

God promised that He will send pastors, but they will be part of the latter rains. Thsoe rains are the truth that shall come in the latter days. The feeding that those pastors will give is how to study and know the truth with understanding the entire Word of God. Sometimes those pastors will have to offend and jar people to shake them back into the right direction.

They have to take their little sinking boats, and patch it up with the Word of God, to keep those souls from sinking in the harsh waves that are in the world today. The time is coming when only God's Word will keep people from being deceived, as apostasy is covering the earth.

The time of the end is here, with the one world order a common rule in every nation on earth. All nations have signed onto the ten agencies of the United Nations, and their agencies are known commonly to even the children in grade school. Those agencies such as the World Bank, the Red Cross, UNICF, U.N. Forces [military], and those dealing with the environment, space and the World Court, and so on. Friend, that One World System is here right now.

We have entered the time where many of the end time prophecies are history, and they date back fifty years. There are cities of peace everywhere, paving the way for the great deception that is coming. Our Father's Word warns us in detail about it. God promises that if you will seek, He will send you a pastor that will feed you with all the truth that you will need, so you will not be deceived.

Jeremiah 3:16 "And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more."

"The ark of the covenant of the Lord" when it was with the children of Israel, was basically the symbol of the altar of God. That was the seat of God, which was God's footstool. But now that we have a risen Christ sitting at the right hand of the Father in heaven, the ark of the covenant is there with Him. What God is saying here, is that there is a time coming when you will not need that ark of the covenant, or that symbol of God's altar on earth.

It was the most precious and sacred item at one time, and God is telling us that His children will not think of that ark any more. Why?

Jeremiah 3:17 "At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart."

Because they will call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord, not the ark of the Covenant. On the first day of the Millennium, every knee will bow to Jesus. All the nations of the earth will know who the true Christ is, and the throne of the Lord will be on earth in Jerusalem. This will happen exactly as it is written in His Word.

As the people of the earth will see the power of the true Jesus Christ when He returns to earth, and through the restoration. Christ will reclaim all of His children from the false messiah and who many will have followed, and fallen away with, and worshipped during the great tribulation [deception]. So God is telling us that we will no longer need anything to symbolize His throne, for His throne will be on earth with you at that time of the Millennium Age.

Jeremiah 3:18 "In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers."

Riddle me this,why are the two houses addressed different?

Too Long Didn't Read (TLDR).