Divorce and Remarriage

[Waiting on him]

How so? When is sin acceptable?

It’s not.

 

[Dave L]

Dave I'm really sorry I asked you that question. I don't think you'll answer me again! I'm trying to have everyone understand that your response was meant for me alone. You weren't going around shaming anyone.

I hope that everyone can drop it. Dave's post was not meant for anyone else but me.

A Song of degrees of David. "Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!"

My post is for all. it is what the bible teaches about divorce and remarriage. It's hard to believe but narrow is the way and people need to put Christ above their sin.

 

[Soverign Grace]

I have a question for everyone - I hope that it's answered. I need the wisdom of Solomon. "In a multitude of counselors there is safety." We had family members stay with us a short time. They had bought a house and the owners had left their dog without food or water so our family members cared for the dog. They had to leave for business and traveled to the opposite coast. They left their dog. My husband was walking it outside in our yard and a neighbor's cat was in our yard and the dog attacked it. (It's not the first time the Rottweiler attacked another small dog) The neighbor demanded that we get the dog out of the neighborhood. Every dog we've ever had was a hunter. Our dogs all attacked chickens, birds, rabbits, and one time another dog. My cat was killed by a neighbor's dog; dogs attack cats. We know that after the fall sin entered.

To appease the neighbors because they've been good friends, my husband drove the dog halfway across the country and the relative drove the other half to take the dog. Both incurred expensive tolls and used many tanks of gas. That wasn't good enough. Our neighbor marched over and handed us a hefty bill for the vet. I've spoken with others who have said that since the dog was being walked in our yard and we weren't at fault or even on a public sidewalk that we shouldn't pay anything - the cat was in our yard. My husband asked the neighbor if she thinks we should pay the entire bill since the cat was in our yard and she said that we are responsible for the vet bill because they "can't keep their cat in their yard." That's not our fault though. Others have said that they chose to let their cat roam the neighborhood and it's not our fault that their cat was in our yard; we weren't doing anything wrong.

It's really a sticky situation. Our neighbors have been great friends but I'm wondering who is really culpable. I told the neighbor that their cat was in our yard. She said that we were lucky that they didn't take it to court and have the dog euthanized and said that it will "ruin a friendship if we don't pay the hefty vet bill."

I don't like the fact that she's telling me that our friendship hinges on us paying their vet bill. That's manipulative IMO. I told her that my husband left me here without transportation alone when I was really sick to appease them, spending hundreds on gas and tolls and that no matter what we do they demand more. I can't even afford the medical care that I need since it's very expensive. They know that I have heavy medical issues and I told them that they don't care that they're putting pressure on me that they're only worried about money. It reminds me of the saying: "And those who cried Appease! Appease! Were hanged by those they tried to please." No matter what we're forced to spend or do they want more - and the cat was trespassing in our yard. What a sticky situation.

They aren't Christians. Can I get everyones feedback on how they would handle this in a godly manner?

 

[Soverign Grace]

My post is for all. it is what the bible teaches about divorce and remarriage. It's hard to believe but narrow is the way and people need to put Christ above their sin.

Can you answer the question I asked? I'm dealing with a very sticky situation. It's very upsetting.

 

[Soverign Grace]

It’s not.

Can you please answer the question I asked? I'm dealing with a very sticky situation and I don't know how to handle it in a godly manner.

 

[Soverign Grace]

@Soverign Grace

And of course we need to make sure we are representing the entire teaching on the topic, and at least the immediate context:

10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

Adding "to submit" is just that, adding, which will arrive at the wrong destination.

Much love!

I have been away from my Bible for awhile and have been recently getting back into reading it. I really like the way you end your posts! Much love to you also!

 

[Dave L]

Can you answer the question I asked? I'm dealing with a very sticky situation. It's very upsetting.

I requested that you re-state it. I do not know what you are referring to.

 

[Butterfly]

Thank you sovereign grace but Dave has made his views quite clear that he thinks I am going to hell - even in his response to you - does it hurt, of course because another Christian is condemning me - however it at least enables me to know who to avoid !!

 

[Dave L]

I have a question for everyone - I hope that it's answered. I need the wisdom of Solomon. "In a multitude of counselors there is safety." We had family members stay with us a short time. They had bought a house and the owners had left their dog without food or water so our family members cared for the dog. They had to leave for business and traveled to the opposite coast. They left their dog. My husband was walking it outside in our yard and a neighbor's cat was in our yard and the dog attacked it. (It's not the first time the Rottweiler attacked another small dog) The neighbor demanded that we get the dog out of the neighborhood. Every dog we've ever had was a hunter. Our dogs all attacked chickens, birds, rabbits, and one time another dog. My cat was killed by a neighbor's dog; dogs attack cats. We know that after the fall sin entered.

To appease the neighbors because they've been good friends, my husband drove the dog halfway across the country and the relative drove the other half to take the dog. Both incurred expensive tolls and used many tanks of gas. That wasn't good enough. Our neighbor marched over and handed us a hefty bill for the vet. I've spoken with others who have said that since the dog was being walked in our yard and we weren't at fault or even on a public sidewalk that we shouldn't pay anything - the cat was in our yard. My husband asked the neighbor if she thinks we should pay the entire bill since the cat was in our yard and she said that we are responsible for the vet bill because they "can't keep their cat in their yard." That's not our fault though. Others have said that they chose to let their cat roam the neighborhood and it's not our fault that their cat was in our yard; we weren't doing anything wrong.

It's really a sticky situation. Our neighbors have been great friends but I'm wondering who is really culpable. I told the neighbor that their cat was in our yard. She said that we were lucky that they didn't take it to court and have the dog euthanized and said that it will "ruin a friendship if we don't pay the hefty vet bill."

I don't like the fact that she's telling me that our friendship hinges on us paying their vet bill. That's manipulative IMO. I told her that my husband left me here without transportation alone when I was really sick to appease them, spending hundreds on gas and tolls and that no matter what we do they demand more. I can't even afford the medical care that I need since it's very expensive. They know that I have heavy medical issues and I told them that they don't care that they're putting pressure on me that they're only worried about money. It reminds me of the saying: "And those who cried Appease! Appease! Were hanged by those they tried to please." No matter what we're forced to spend or do they want more - and the cat was trespassing in our yard. What a sticky situation.

They aren't Christians. Can I get everyones feedback on how they would handle this in a godly manner?

I don't have any friends that are not Christians, or that were Christian friends not living repentant life styles. = zero trouble and peace of mind.

 

[Waiting on him]

I have a question for everyone - I hope that it's answered. I need the wisdom of Solomon. "In a multitude of counselors there is safety." We had family members stay with us a short time. They had bought a house and the owners had left their dog without food or water so our family members cared for the dog. They had to leave for business and traveled to the opposite coast. They left their dog. My husband was walking it outside in our yard and a neighbor's cat was in our yard and the dog attacked it. (It's not the first time the Rottweiler attacked another small dog) The neighbor demanded that we get the dog out of the neighborhood. Every dog we've ever had was a hunter. Our dogs all attacked chickens, birds, rabbits, and one time another dog. My cat was killed by a neighbor's dog; dogs attack cats. We know that after the fall sin entered.

To appease the neighbors because they've been good friends, my husband drove the dog halfway across the country and the relative drove the other half to take the dog. Both incurred expensive tolls and used many tanks of gas. That wasn't good enough. Our neighbor marched over and handed us a hefty bill for the vet. I've spoken with others who have said that since the dog was being walked in our yard and we weren't at fault or even on a public sidewalk that we shouldn't pay anything - the cat was in our yard. My husband asked the neighbor if she thinks we should pay the entire bill since the cat was in our yard and she said that we are responsible for the vet bill because they "can't keep their cat in their yard." That's not our fault though. Others have said that they chose to let their cat roam the neighborhood and it's not our fault that their cat was in our yard; we weren't doing anything wrong.

It's really a sticky situation. Our neighbors have been great friends but I'm wondering who is really culpable. I told the neighbor that their cat was in our yard. She said that we were lucky that they didn't take it to court and have the dog euthanized and said that it will "ruin a friendship if we don't pay the hefty vet bill."

I don't like the fact that she's telling me that our friendship hinges on us paying their vet bill. That's manipulative IMO. I told her that my husband left me here without transportation alone when I was really sick to appease them, spending hundreds on gas and tolls and that no matter what we do they demand more. I can't even afford the medical care that I need since it's very expensive. They know that I have heavy medical issues and I told them that they don't care that they're putting pressure on me that they're only worried about money. It reminds me of the saying: "And those who cried Appease! Appease! Were hanged by those they tried to please." No matter what we're forced to spend or do they want more - and the cat was trespassing in our yard. What a sticky situation.

They aren't Christians. Can I get everyones feedback on how they would handle this in a godly manner?

How much is the vet bill

 

[Dave L]

Thank you sovereign grace but Dave has made his views quite clear that he thinks I am going to hell - even in his response to you - does it hurt, of course because another Christian is condemning me - however it at least enables me to know who to avoid !!

I did not say that. If you recall I said God has ways of dealing with sins of this nature. You will not be lost according to Christ if you are one of his. In David's case God removed Uriah. Bathsheba was instrumental in producing Christ. I've seen believers in adulterous marriages forcefully delivered through the death or separation of their spouse..... and so on. If you have a repentant attitude, Christ atones for the rest and works things out accordingly.

 

[Waiting on him]

Can you please answer the question I asked? I'm dealing with a very sticky situation and I don't know how to handle it in a godly manner.

You know the answer, we are to suffer wrong for His sake. Same as he did for us

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Good enough:)

It's okay if you feel you can't answer - I have tough questions sometimes, that the pastor at bible study can't answer. The best way I can describe it is that sometimes I seem very close in spirit and sense God close but then it is like a vapor and is gone. I just had it happen at bible study but it's usually fleeting. Scripture tells us that Paul was "in the Spirit on the Lords Day... And I wondered how one gets "in the Spirit..."

I'm going to try it a different way. Sometimes it takes just the right words for me to say, oh, I get what you're saying now, so I'm assuming we all are pretty much like that.

You think - you have equated - being in the Spirit - to a thing you feel. Incidentally, from what other men say, that's kind of different for the person. For me, it was this actual physical feeling, like waves washing over and through me and I would get goosebumps too. Wonderful feeling, almost as if God was...hugging me.

That feeling (or however you describe it for you) IS your reaction to the Holy Spirit. But, it also is...a pleasure to our senses, and is a more carnal way of communion. So He wants us to go on and not stay there, but we would never choose that, we would always choose what is a pleasure to our senses. So, He begins to wean us. His goal is a more naked communion, with our senses and desires put under, a purer communion.

And how do you wean a baby? By removing what it desires so it will move on to different desires, better things. No one would approve if they saw an 8 year old nursing, would they?

So, I know it will help you to know that it is God Himself who is doing this and hiding, as it were, from you. He used to pick you up and caress you all the time. Now, He sets you down sometimes, to get you to walk on your own feet. ( How amazing, incidentally, that all things He has made show Himself, even the mother and child relationship!)

So once you know a thing is God working and Gods will, it becomes easier to accept and submit to it. When we are thinking somethings wrong and something we have done is causing it, there's distress and no calm submission and trust.

He will sometimes come back to your senses again, and yes, as you say, its so fleeting, there and gone. He wants to reassure you He's still there and keep you calm, so He allows you to sense Him briefly again, a sort of reminder that you are loved and that He hasn't abandoned you.

I counseled you to read about Israel in the desert because their journey there reflects our spiritual journey with God.

It says He let them become very thirsty in the desert to....SEE WHAT THEY WOULD DO. What was He looking for? What was He hoping they would do? He was looking for trust, no matter what it seemed or felt like to their senses. This was a test of trust (faith). They failed it. It was their lack of trust that displeased Him.

But you will not fail your test. You will begin to trust in this, even if you don't like how it feels to your senses.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

“And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.” (Matthew 19:29–30)

Does not the verse above pertain to the coming out of the world. To forsake all (the natural) and to be born from above (the heavenly)? All means all. there is command to leave Mother and Father YET to Honour Mother and Father. When Jesus Christ said Mark 3:33-35
[33] And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren? [34] And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! [35] For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.

...He signified a change of house from the earthly habitation to the Heavenly habitation? His Father God and His Mother the New Jerusalem which is above all. Yet His tenderness for Mary and no doubt Joseph still evident. His coming out of the world yet He came not to condemn the world but to save it.

Hebrews 13:4-9 is God’s marriage bed, is it not? “Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. [5] Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee. [6] So that we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, and I will not fear what man shall do unto me. [7] Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation. [8] Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. [9] Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.”

It is good for the heart to be established with grace...not the doctrines of men which have not profited them that have been occupied with them...GRACE which is the doctrine of God that the Son said was not His doctrine but the doctrine of the One who sent HIM.

Revelation 2:20-22
[20] Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. [21] And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. [22] Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

here is a bed of adultery (against God) defiled and “unclean”, a bed Jezebel is cast into for she teaches those to eat things sacrificed to idols...

He (Jesus Christ)came to set at “Liberty” those held captive. These are the Sons of God which the creation in the bondage of corruption groans to be delivered into the “Liberty” of. Paul spoke often on eating of those things sacrificed to idols...yet also spoke of those weak who thought it was a sin.

Question: are you preaching Grace or captivity again to bondage? Those set at Liberty in Christ...are free. Acts 11:9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

You know the answer, we are to suffer wrong for His sake. Same as he did for us

Agree. It feels completely horrible as if we are losing in submitting to what we are convinced is a wrong or an injustice. It is embarrassing and humiliating. But the heavy weight of glory it produces in our submitting to the humiliation is in destruction of the enemy which is pride in stating our being right.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Dave I'm really sorry I asked you that question. I don't think you'll answer me again! I'm trying to have everyone understand that your response was meant for me alone. You weren't going around shaming anyone.

I hope that everyone can drop it. Dave's post was not meant for anyone else but me.

A Song of degrees of David. "Behold, how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity!"

Blessed are the peacemakers for they will be called sons of God.

 

[Soverign Grace]

First of all, you can't force it.

Second of all, it doesn't mean you are closer to God because you feel and sense Him. That's a baser way, for younger believers, and its not purer spirit. So when God sees fit to seem to disappear to your senses, and you find yourself wanting to try to push it, know that He is weaning you from this baser way of experiencing Him.
And do not kick and scream but rather determine that He knows what He is doing and submit to the dryness. It is the true fast in spirit. It is not a fast you chose. If you were given a choice, you would never choose it.

Its not easy, the true fast in spirit. You say, You promised I would never be thirsty again, so why do I feel you have led me to this dry place, this desert, and then left me here to die of thirst?

You will advance far more quickly if you do not do this, as Israel did, but instead say, my Lord knows what I have need of.

Is that enough for now? I think it might be enough for you.

I guess I have some counsel of what it would be good for you to read at this time. Read about Israel in the desert. Read how it says that He let them become very thirsty in that dry place. And then answer me, when you find it, WHY did He let them become very thirsty in the dry place. It tells why.

Good way to look at it - that God is always with me although my senses don't perceive Him. I thought that it was the "groaning inwardly for our adoption as sons" - since that describes the feelings I have - but they're strong at times; the times that I sensed God's holiness were peaceful and beautiful, holy, and pleasant and I long for it again. Maybe He gave me something of a foretaste of Heaven. I am something of a Jacob who wrestles with God so I tend to be more proactive and it's hard at times waiting on God to take me out of a dry place:)

I will read about the Israelites in the desert and why God let them wander for 40 years. I'm actually reading through the Old Testament right now. I appreciate your wisdom. It's good to hear of many others' experience.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

How much is the vet bill

Yes, how much is the vet bill. Maybe we all can chip in to help you pay it. If everyone gives a little as they can, it will burden none of us. You can give us a post office box or send your address in pm to whoever of us say we can help.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I don't have any friends that are not Christians, or that were Christian friends not living repentant life styles. = zero trouble and peace of mind.

Yes, whatever you do, don't eat with sinners.

 

[Soverign Grace]

No reply makes me think that you think I am quite mad, SG. :)

I'm imagining all the ways you might be thinking I'm mad. It doesn't sound right to you perhaps. You don't feel like you are being perfected maybe. And maybe it seems arrogant to consider that you are anything that God would be perfecting you, especially when you can't feel or see it.

But is it humble to be searching about for what you did wrong to make God go or what you should do to make Him come back? Is that trust in God or is that trust in you?

Or is humble to realize you probably do MANY wrong things that you don't even know about yet?

I hope that I didn't convey in my response that I thought you were mad! Heavens no. I've had people think that of me because I believe in the Bible. I know that there are some things that God wants of me that I'm still working on. I'm just trying to find out how exactly one does go "in the Spirit" as Paul did. Or was that only meant for him as he wrote down Revelations? I don't know. I have a longing - a very deep inner longing - to get to a higher place with God. I have been unable to find the exact path - if that makes sense to you.

It may be taking every thought captive as Dave said - since my husband said the same thing and it strikes a chord. Thinking God's thoughts; thinking holy thoughts, rather than all the random thoughts that reverberate and sometimes go down the wrong path.