Drawing the wrong conclusions

[CoreIssue]

Just to clarify. Before I watch anything. You take the position of all these videos. These videos are speaking for you? Is that right?

With minor variances here and there.

 

[Windmill Charge]

Actually you are doing the mixing of two very separate destinies...the holy saints and the righteous. Read the end of revelation. It speaks of the saved nations (the righteous) and those who live in the holy city (the saints...the bride of Christ).

There only two types of people. The saved, Christian and the unsaved, nonchristian.

 

[Episkopos]

There only two types of people. The saved, Christian and the unsaved, nonchristian.

Perfect statement for this thread. Making a conclusive statement usually takes a truth too far...as in the above quote.

The saved? No one is finally saved until the end of the race. We will be saved if we endure faithfully to the end of our races. So this is a false dichotomy...that is based on religious pride. Like the parable of the Pharisee and the Publican.

How sure was the Pharisee that he was saved and the publican was not? As sure as any modern Christian.

But who was justified by God?

Can we not learn anything from having a bible?

 

[complete]

Perfect statement for this thread. Making a conclusive statement usually takes a truth too far...as in the above quote.

The saved? No one is finally saved until the end of the race. We will be saved if we endure faithfully to the end of our races. So this is a false dichotomy...that is based on religious pride. Like the parable of the Pharisee and the Publican.

How sure was the Pharisee that he was saved and the publican was not? As sure as any modern Christian.

But who was justified by God?

Can we not learn anything from having a bible?

'For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'
(Ephesians 2:8-10)

Hello @Episkopos,

I know that I am saved by grace, because of what God has said in His word. I believe what He says: because I know that He is faithful and will do it. I am His workmanship, and the work that He has begun in me He will continue to do until the day of Christ.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[CoreIssue]

Perfect statement for this thread. Making a conclusive statement usually takes a truth too far...as in the above quote.

The saved? No one is finally saved until the end of the race. We will be saved if we endure faithfully to the end of our races. So this is a false dichotomy...that is based on religious pride. Like the parable of the Pharisee and the Publican.

How sure was the Pharisee that he was saved and the publican was not? As sure as any modern Christian.

But who was justified by God?

Can we not learn anything from having a bible?

Salvation is instant by faith. You have turned it into a work.

 

[farouk]

'For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'
(Ephesians 2:8-10)

Hello @Episkopos,

I know that I am saved by grace, because of what God has said in His word. I believe what He says: because I know that He is faithful and will do it. I am His workmanship, and the work that He has begun in me He will continue to do until the day of Christ.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Good indeed to remember that Ephesians 2.10 follows on from Ephesians 2.8-9....

 

[complete]

Good indeed to remember that Ephesians 2.10 follows on from Ephesians 2.8-9....

'For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'
(Ephesians 2:8-10)
Hello @farouk,

Yes, I see what you mean. :) It is indeed.

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[farouk]

'For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'
(Ephesians 2:8-10)
Hello @farouk,

Yes, I see what you mean. :) It is indeed.

Praise His Holy Name!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

We ares studying Ephesians at our local church Bible study now.

 

[complete]

We ares studying Ephesians at our local church Bible study now.

Hi @farouk

That is lovely to hear. I love Ephesians. When I read and understood the completeness of the work of Christ on our behalf, of the acceptance of God of such as myself in His Beloved Son; that He sees me to be 'holy and without blame' before Him, because of what Christ has done, it was so liberating, and engendered such confidence and blessed assurance.

Praise His Holy Name!

Bless you, farouk,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[farouk]

Hi @farouk

That is lovely to hear. I love Ephesians. When I read and understood the completeness of the work of Christ on our behalf, of the acceptance of God of such as myself in His Beloved Son; that He sees me to be 'holy and without blame' before Him, because of what Christ has done, it was so liberating, and engendered such confidence and blessed assurance.

Praise His Holy Name!

Bless you, farouk,
In Christ Jesus
Chris

It all wondrously focuses on His grace, the riches of His grace, the exceeding riches of His grace, His abounding grace, etc. (as variously spoken of in chapters 1 and 2). :)

 

[amadeus]

Gen. 9:18 And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.

19 These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.

25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

26 And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

Going back a bit to within the ark built by Noah are not the clean and unclean beasts representing something more than lower animal according men but men themselves according the beasts or beastly nature within them. Consider:

"Ye shall therefore put difference between clean beasts and unclean, and between unclean fowls and clean: and ye shall not make your souls abominable by beast, or by fowl, or by any manner of living thing that creepeth on the ground, which I have separated from you as unclean." Lev 20:25

"Nevertheless man being in honour abideth not: he is like the beasts that perish." Psalm 49:12

"I said in mine heart concerning the estate of the sons of men, that God might manifest them, and that they might see that they themselves are beasts.
For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth BEASTS; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity." Ecc 3:18

"And I will appoint over them four kinds, saith the LORD: the sword to slay, and the dogs to tear, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the earth, to devour and destroy." Jerem 15:3

"And whereas the king saw a watcher and an holy one coming down from heaven, and saying, Hew the tree down, and destroy it; yet leave the stump of the roots thereof in the earth, even with a band of iron and brass, in the tender grass of the field; and let it be wet with the dew of heaven, and let his portion be with the beasts of the field, till seven times pass over him;
That they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field, and they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and they shall wet thee with the dew of heaven, and seven times shall pass over thee, till thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will."
Dan 4:23, 25

"Wisdom hath builded her house, she hath hewn out her seven pillars:
She hath killed her beasts; she hath mingled her wine; she hath also furnished her table." Prov 9:1-2

Are, that is the new man of us, not to kill the old man of us [our beasts or beastly natures]?

 

[marks]

Perfect statement for this thread. Making a conclusive statement usually takes a truth too far...as in the above quote.

The saved? No one is finally saved until the end of the race. We will be saved if we endure faithfully to the end of our races. So this is a false dichotomy...that is based on religious pride. Like the parable of the Pharisee and the Publican.

How sure was the Pharisee that he was saved and the publican was not? As sure as any modern Christian.

But who was justified by God?

Can we not learn anything from having a bible?

God wants us to know we have eternal life, and you can't know you do unless you do.

It's a simple thing.

Much love!

 

[marks]

'For by grace are ye saved through faith;
and that not of yourselves:
it is the gift of God:
Not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus unto good works,
which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.'
(Ephesians 2:8-10)

Hello @Episkopos,

I know that I am saved by grace, because of what God has said in His word. I believe what He says: because I know that He is faithful and will do it. I am His workmanship, and the work that He has begun in me He will continue to do until the day of Christ.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Chris,

There's a scary thought. We know we are saved because we believe the words of Scripture. But those who say that they don't know . . . what does that unbelief mean?



Much love!

 

[Nancy]

We can also draw the wrong conclusions when we don't have spiritual experiences or visitations.

God knows what to give us....and when. It is better to believe without seeing. We may not be able to handle the responsibility of seeing so much. So that the visitation of one person is meant for all. The gifts of the body are for all the body. A certain gift is not for THAT person. Again, we have to look at the selfish motive that is behind the carnal nature in us all. We need to see the gifts for others....not ourselves. We can benefit from the gifts of others...not our own.

We are each responsible for what we have been given. If only a little...then we will be held to a lower standard. If much...then more responsibility.


So then it is very possible that the one who has the gifting, loses out and the one receiving the blessing of the gift of the other...getting it right and winning out! It's always about the heart!

And then there is the idea that if you receive a prophet in the name of a prophet...you get a prophet's reward. God's gifts multiply just like the feeding of the thousands with the loaves and fish. So there is no need to be jealous of others and their spiritual experiences and gifts.

For many years, I lived in self-condemnation as I would hear all kinds of "miraculous" experiences others had...also tongues. Since I had not had anything sensational happen to me, nor have I ever had the gift of tongues...I always thought myself as less than and un-saved. Of course, He has brought me a very long way from that attitude and has shown me how He works, through prayer, faith and trusting Him instead of myself! He is soooooooooo Good ♥ And, He is NOT a "feeling"...although, His awesomeness does bring about wonderful feelings. JMO :)

 

[complete]

Hi Chris,

There's a scary thought. We know we are saved because we believe the words of Scripture. But those who say that they don't know . . . what does that unbelief mean?



Much love!

'That their hearts might be comforted,
being knit together in love,
and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding,
to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God,
and of the Father,
and of Christ;
In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.'
(Colossians 2:2)
Hello @marks,

There is nothing 'scary' about it. We are God's workmanship, and He does not fail.

I have not always had assurance, it is an assurance born of understanding: as I gradually learned of and acknowledged the fullness of the love of God in Christ Jesus, that we are 'complete' in Christ, and 'accepted in the Beloved'; then that assurance came.

When I was first made aware of my need of a saviour, and initially believed that the Lord Jesus Christ died to save me from sin and it's penalty, I knew nothing beyond that: but the seed was sown, faith entered and I was saved by His grace. In the hand of the Master Gardener I have since grown in faith and trust through the entry of God's word, which has brought further light; but I was saved the moment that faith entered.

The moment we believe we are sealed by that Holy Spirit of promise.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[CoreIssue]

Hi Chris,

There's a scary thought. We know we are saved because we believe the words of Scripture. But those who say that they don't know . . . what does that unbelief mean?



Much love!

The Bible does not require a person to realize the have faith unto salvation. It simply requires having faith.

In the Old Testament before Israel. There were many who had faith for which God declared them just.

Simple fact is, at that time, there was no message of salvation. It was under the law of conscience.

Even further, Paul makes a clear there are those that never heard the wall and never heard the gospel that God has declared righteous.

Everybody wants a nice clean little formula. Well, is no formula that encompasses every except faith in God, be it by law conscience of the gospel is salvation.

 

[marks]

The Bible does not require a person to realize the have faith unto salvation. It simply requires having faith.

What do you mean here? non-specific faith?

 

[complete]

For many years, I lived in self-condemnation as I would hear all kinds of "miraculous" experiences others had...also tongues. Since I had not had anything sensational happen to me, nor have I ever had the gift of tongues...I always thought myself as less than and un-saved. Of course, He has brought me a very long way from that attitude and has shown me how He works, through prayer, faith and trusting Him instead of myself! He is soooooooooo Good ♥ And, He is NOT a "feeling"...although, His awesomeness does bring about wonderful feelings. JMO :)

Hello @Nancy,

I can empathise with this: for I had to learn the lesson too, that we dare not look within to our feelings to find evidence of salvation there, or without to the lives of others to compare ourselves and our experiences with theirs; only keep our eyes stayed upon Him, and upon the all-sufficiency of His sacrifice for sin on our behalf.

Praise God!

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[marks]

There is nothing 'scary' about it. We are God's workmanship, and He does not fail.

Hi Chris,

That's true, we're saved by faith in Jesus' death and resurrection, not by having the rest of the doctrine straight.

But I do tremble for those who distance themselves to the very edge of God's grace, thinking that it truly rests on them to be saved. Is that in fact saving faith? Sometimes I wonder.

But God knows.

That's why I want to always try to edify those who claim Christ, whether they seem like believers of not. Not my job to sort them out.

Good reminder!

Much love!

 

[Windmill Charge]

Perfect statement for this thread. Making a conclusive statement usually takes a truth too far...as in the above quote.

The saved? No one is finally saved until the end of the race. We will be saved if we endure faithfully to the end of our races. So this is a false dichotomy...that is based on religious pride. Like the parable of the Pharisee and the Publican.

How sure was the Pharisee that he was saved and the publican was not? As sure as any modern Christian.

But who was justified by God?

Can we not learn anything from having a bible?

Well Jesus said I hold those my Father has given me in my hand and NOONE c an snatch them out of my hand.

Yes we have to continue to obey Jesus to live the life, but do you really think it is you and your efforts that keep you in the faith?

Is your vision of Jesus one of someone who will endure the cross etc to save a person, only to let that person drift away from him.
Is that the extent and power of Jesus's unimaginably great love for us, indifference to our
fate?