Drawing the wrong conclusions

[CNKW3]

You cannot lose it, when in doubt read Romans 8. That puts things back into perspective,

I am curious. What in Romans 8 leads you to believe you can’t lose salvation?

 

[CoreIssue]

I am curious. What in Romans 8 leads you to believe you can’t lose salvation?

Romans 8

 

[Nancy]

People lean too much on their own brain power, their own understanding... and salvation is NOT to be found there. Solomon wrote about that a thousand years before Jesus was born in Bethlehem:

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." Prov 3:5-6

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." Prov 3:5-
I so love this Prov. It's proven very powerful, and true!

 

[amadeus]

"Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths." Prov 3:5-
I so love this Prov. It's proven very powerful, and true!

My wife has called it her favorite!

 

[CNKW3]

Romans 8

Oh?? Romans 8. How could I be so crazy. Let’s start with verse 1..
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
So you are saying that I can walk after the flesh and I am saved? Yes.
If not you must be saying those in Christ will walk after the spirit which means they are saved? But we know that even “Christians” walk after or follow the desires of the flesh. But you are saying it doesn’t matter because I’m still saved. Am I getting this right because all you posted was..

Romans 8

 

[Nancy]

My wife has called it her favorite!

I can see why! ♥ That and Jer. 29:11 are only 2 of my favorites!
11" For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end."

 

[CoreIssue]

Oh?? Romans 8. How could I be so crazy. Let’s start with verse 1..
Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
So you are saying that I can walk after the flesh and I am saved? Yes.
If not you must be saying those in Christ will walk after the spirit which means they are saved? But we know that even “Christians” walk after or follow the desires of the flesh. But you are saying it doesn’t matter because I’m still saved. Am I getting this right because all you posted was..

Romans 8

I never said that.

You've memorized the Calvinism mantra for sure.

 

[CNKW3]

I never said that.

You've memorized the Calvinism mantra for sure.

What is with you people? YOU NEVER SAID ANYTHING. That is the point. I asked you a question and you responded with....
Romans 8. Like what is that? Can nobody even answer a simple question on this board?

 

[CoreIssue]

What is with you people? YOU NEVER SAID ANYTHING. That is the point. I asked you a question and you responded with....
Romans 8. Like what is that? Can nobody even answer a simple question on this board?

I never said what you accuse me of. But I have said planning on this forum.

You asked me about Romans eight and I gave you little a thread full of answer.

 

[CNKW3]

I never said what you accuse me of. But I have said planning on this forum.

You asked me about Romans eight and I gave you little a thread full of answer.View attachment 6278

What is it with you and links. Can you not answer a simple question! I’ve watched some of your false doctrine links why do I want to spend time watching more.
The Bible says....nor any other creature. It does not say “you”. It says any OTHER creature. Why does it say “other” if it is referring to you? The truth is...you can walk away from the faith. You knew I would respond with this and this is why you didn’t want to answer because when examined your position is erroneous. So, let’s post a link.
You can choose to sin and follow the devil even after you obey Christ. It happens all the time.

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
The Bible, the same one that includes Romans 8 tells us that the person who was SANCTIFIED BY THE BLOOD can then step all over the son and receive serious punishment.

2 Peter 2:20-21 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
This is as plain as can be but I know you don’t care. Because the core issue is you are married to your doctrine no matter how much truth someone shows you.

 

[CoreIssue]

What is it with you and links. Can you not answer a simple question! I’ve watched some of your false doctrine links why do I want to spend time watching more.
The Bible says....nor any other creature. It does not say “you”. It says any OTHER creature. Why does it say “other” if it is referring to you? The truth is...you can walk away from the faith. You knew I would respond with this and this is why you didn’t want to answer because when examined your position is erroneous. So, let’s post a link.
You can choose to sin and follow the devil even after you obey Christ. It happens all the time.

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
The Bible, the same one that includes Romans 8 tells us that the person who was SANCTIFIED BY THE BLOOD can then step all over the son and receive serious punishment.

2 Peter 2:20-21 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
This is as plain as can be but I know you don’t care. Because the core issue is you are married to your doctrine no matter how much truth someone shows you.

Lame complaint.

Material spoken, written and by image is still material in response.

 

[CNKW3]

Lame complaint.

Material spoken, written and by image is still material in response.

That’s it?

 

[farouk]

Have very much to learn--but after having been indoctrinated in 'conditional' salvation, something flew in the face of that when I was open to understanding OSAS reasoning through a brother whose own sold-out relationship with God, love for God, knowing and trusting His love for him, was believable and spoke volumes to me; in that he used the example of a child being born into a family; of what father would ever disown his own child, speaking of our Heavenly Father. By virtue of the new birth, you are always His child, of His Family. The fellowship and rewards may differ, but you can never be unborn but always confident of spending eternity with Him. (?)

It's always good to try to keep our views of what saving is within the boundaries of what Scripture actually says; it's easy to get carried away with theorizing and logic which may seem perfectly feasible and reasonable but may not actually have Scripture as its basic reference point.

 

[Episkopos]

It's always good to try to keep our views of what saving is within the boundaries of what Scripture actually says; it's easy to get carried away with theorizing and logic which may seem perfectly feasible and reasonable but may not actually have Scripture as its basic reference point.

That's the whole point of this thread... Well said.

 

[Episkopos]

Edit: failed to add that, to me, this OSAS brother walked in more of the love/anointing of God than any "conditional salvation" brother/sister/teacher I knew! Go figure.

A person can walk with God in the most intimate way and not realize how God works with others. IOW he only has one reference point...his OWN relationship with God.

But if that same brother failed miserably...like all the original apostles did by denying Christ or running away..or fall into a grievous sin...then the difficulty of returning to the Lord with that same innocence becomes apparent.

I never judge a person based on their doctrine.

It is how they hold onto the doctrine that counts. A lack in sound teaching may not affect the present walk of a brother. He may be in a "honeymoon" period or God might just be happy to leave him as he is.

But God doesn't raise these kinds of people to be teachers...except maybe by their example.

Not everyone is called to be a teacher.

 

[amadeus]

I can see why! ♥ That and Jer. 29:11 are only 2 of my favorites!
11" For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the Lord, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end."

Give God as always, the glory!

 

[marks]

Yes, you cannot know you do if you do not, but some who do not, walk in delusion because either they lost their love for truth or never had it the first place... although they thought that they did:

"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:" II Thess 10:11

So, how does a person avoid initial delusion or get rid the delusion he is already in...?

Trusting in God and being diligent to both study His Word, and to put it into practice in our lives.

Much love!

 

[marks]

But if that same brother failed miserably...like all the original apostles did by denying Christ or running away..or fall into a grievous sin...then the difficulty of returning to the Lord with that same innocence becomes apparent.

Actually, I find that God returns us to innocence when we trust Him fully. When we realize that we truly are a brand new person, born from God, not part of the Adamic creation, a new person who is righteous and holy, of whom God declares, "it is therefore no longer I that sin, but sin that lives in me."

And we are new and clean and innocent. The stain of sin is removed in Christ.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Edit: failed to add that, to me, this OSAS brother walked in more of the love/anointing of God than any "conditional salvation" brother/sister/teacher I knew! Go figure.

But this is exactly what the Bible teaches, and if we will only but believe His Word, that is our life.

Law empowers sin. Romans 7 explains in detail.

Legalisting living which is what any kind of "holiness" doctrine, as is espoused here, any kind of "non OSAS" doctrine, these will always lead to legalism.

One has to judge the nature of their relationship with God based on how they feel about themself. And to improve how one feels about themself, since there is a scale, "ungodly > > > > holy", or "Saved > > > > unsaved", we will necessarily want to move ourselves towards the more comrforting part of the scale.

But the net result is to make us more conscious of those places where we perceive failure. And to push us to do better. You're slipping brother!!!!

But I say, perceive, because we are not the best judges of ourselves. Jesus reserves the right to judge each of us to Himself.

Who can say that they commit no sins?? If your standing "In Christ" is based on your ability to live without sin, to remain sinless, can you even know for certainty any and every sin you commit? That you can therefore certify that you are "In Christ"?

John wrote that if we sin, we don't even know God! If that's all there is to the story, then how can you admit to even one sin? It means you don't know God.

Unless you've been born again, and unless that means you've been forever separated from your sins. Then you can know God, and trust Him instead of yourself, and then you can be free from this flesh drive to be accepted because you are so good, or so determined, or whatever you think you must do on top of what Jesus already did.

Much love!
Mark

 

[Wafer]

What is it with you and links. Can you not answer a simple question! I’ve watched some of your false doctrine links why do I want to spend time watching more.
The Bible says....nor any other creature. It does not say “you”. It says any OTHER creature. Why does it say “other” if it is referring to you? The truth is...you can walk away from the faith. You knew I would respond with this and this is why you didn’t want to answer because when examined your position is erroneous. So, let’s post a link.
You can choose to sin and follow the devil even after you obey Christ. It happens all the time.

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
The Bible, the same one that includes Romans 8 tells us that the person who was SANCTIFIED BY THE BLOOD can then step all over the son and receive serious punishment.

2 Peter 2:20-21 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
This is as plain as can be but I know you don’t care. Because the core issue is you are married to your doctrine no matter how much truth someone shows you.

2 Peter 2:20-21 does not speak of Christians. You have omitted the context:

2 Peter 2:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

The remainder of the chapter speaks of that group.