Drawing the wrong conclusions

[bbyrd009]

OK I'll play! You go first. Explain "your model" of the 4 river systems in Gen. 2.

well, they neatly tail with supersymmetry, but that is a completely diff reflection, wouldn't be pertinent to yours i guess but that doesn't mean yours is like wrong or anything. I'm trying to grasp your model there, ok

And explain Rev. 22:11.

might be a great reflection of the four rivers, idk?

 

[bbyrd009]

When we buy a property, we can claim that everything on that property is now ours. We have this thing about ownership. We see something and we ask...how much does it cost?

We do the same thing with the bible. We purchase a bible...or get a free copy...and then proceed to do the same thing with it. Anything that we deem we want within it's pages...we claim for ourselves.

When we find that the grace of God is given freely...we immediately claim the free stuff for ourselves. After all, it is OUR bible, and anything that we want in it is ours for the taking.

So we bring the same covetous attitude to the bible that we use in the world...to get what WE want.

How can this not be a recipe for disaster? Is God playing to our covetousness? Is He being a salesman and wanting to increase church membership?

So we make a god in our own selfish image. What we do...we expect God to do. We ignore the fact that God is fully other...completely different from us. His ways are far above our own.
Yet we don't allow for a change of carnal reasoning in regards to eternal truth. We forget the the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Instead we build on that faulty selfish reasoning thus drawing all the wrong conclusions to what we are reading in the bible.

Few can just read what the bible is saying in it's own context. Few can receive the truth.

So I guess the lesson here might be beware of those who are wise in their own eyes maybe?

 

[bbyrd009]

"As in...I have experienced such and such miraculous provision or visitation...therefore (add in erroneous conclusion here).
God gives us samples of things to bring us into His life. It's about life, not experiences. If you are walking in His life you are walking in a perpetual visitation.... a perpetual experiencing of God.
So then a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
We are not more special because we have received more experiences from God."

I have never had such a miraculous "visitation" from God. The only conclusion for my self to come to is, "if He said it then, I believe it" no "feelings" are involved, just His Truth. Although, I cannot and will not judge their experiences, there little more to do but pray God will reveal these things to me, personally, in His time.

BTW-some might argue God is Just and Righteous but, not always fair?
I do not see this parable as being unfair as all agreed to the same thing but, when first reading of it, I wondered how I woud have reacted had I been one of the early morning workers. Matthew 20:1-16

"For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire workers for his vineyard. 2 He agreed to pay them a denarius for the day and sent them into his vineyard.

3 “About nine in the morning he went out and saw others standing in the marketplace doing nothing. 4 He told them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard, and I will pay you whatever is right.’ 5 So they went.

“He went out again about noon and about three in the afternoon and did the same thing. 6 About five in the afternoon he went out and found still others standing around. He asked them, ‘Why have you been standing here all day long doing nothing?’

7 “‘Because no one has hired us,’ they answered.

“He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’

8 “When evening came, the owner of the vineyard said to his foreman, ‘Call the workers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last ones hired and going on to the first.’

9 “The workers who were hired about five in the afternoon came and each received a denarius. 10 So when those came who were hired first, they expected to receive more. But each one of them also received a denarius. 11 When they received it, they began to grumble against the landowner. 12 ‘These who were hired last worked only one hour,’ they said, ‘and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the work and the heat of the day.’

13 “But he answered one of them, ‘I am not being unfair to you, friend. Didn’t you agree to work for a denarius? 14 Take your pay and go. I want to give the one who was hired last the same as I gave you. 15 Don’t I have the right to do what I want with my own money? Or are you envious because I am generous?’

16 “So the last will be first, and the first will be last.”

zing

 

[VictoryinJesus]

There is a passage where Paul says..."all who remain in the ship will be saved". Now with the wrong conclusions so prevalent in today's church...why is there no sect that believes in living aboard a ship for salvation? It is the same reasoning as they use for their religious "assurances."

“...all who remain in the ship will be saved.” ...but that is not the end of it. “for there shall be no loss of any man's life among you, but of the ship.” ...“forepart stuck fast, and remained unmoveable, but the hinder part was broken with the violence of the waves.”

If as you hinted “...all who remain in the ship will be saved” is to be taken spiritually and not literal...the ship was broken. Acts 27:31, Acts 27:11, Acts 27:19-26

Acts 27:41-44
[41] And falling into a place where two seas met, they ran the ship aground; and the forepart stuck fast, and remained unmoveable, but the hinder part was broken with the violence of the waves. [42] And the soldiers' counsel was to kill the prisoners, lest any of them should swim out, and escape. [43] But the centurion, willing to save Paul, kept them from their purpose; and commanded that they which could swim should cast themselves first into the sea , and get to land: [44] And the rest, some on boards, and some on broken pieces of the ship. And so it came to pass, that they escaped all safe to land.

Psalm 78:65-66
[65] Then the Lord awaked as one out of sleep, and like a mighty man that shouteth by reason of wine. [66] And he smote his enemies in the hinder parts: he put them to a perpetual reproach.

Joel 2:20-21
[20] But I will remove far off from you the northern army , and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things. [21] Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice: for the Lord will do great things.

Mark 4:38-40
[38] And he was in the hinder part of the ship, asleep on a pillow: and they awake him, and say unto him, Master, carest thou not that we perish? [39] And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. [40] And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith?


@Enoch111 don’t even have to say mishmash.

 

[bbyrd009]

41] And falling into a place where two seas met, they ran the ship aground; and the forepart stuck fast, and remained unmoveable, but the hinder part was broken with the violence of the waves.

there's a quite interesting reflection here when "where two seas met" is understood, in the context of what was carved into the fore part of the ship, fwiw

 

[VictoryinJesus]

there's a quite interesting reflection here when "where two seas met" is understood, in the context of what was carved into the fore part of the ship, fwiw

Mark 11:2-5
[2] And saith unto them, Go your way into the village over against you: and as soon as ye be entered into it, ye shall find a colt tied, whereon never man sat; loose him, and bring him . [3] And if any man say unto you, Why do ye this? say ye that the Lord hath need of him; and straightway he will send him hither. [4] And they went their way, and found the colt tied by the door without in a place where two ways met; and they loose him. [5] And certain of them that stood there said unto them, What do ye, loosing the colt?

 

[bbyrd009]

Mark 11:2-5
[2] And saith unto them, Go your way into the village over against you: and as soon as ye be entered into it, ye shall find a colt tied, whereon never man sat; loose him, and bring him . [3] And if any man say unto you, Why do ye this? say ye that the Lord hath need of him; and straightway he will send him hither. [4] And they went their way, and found the colt tied by the door without in a place where two ways met; and they loose him. [5] And certain of them that stood there said unto them, What do ye, loosing the colt?

nice, ya, Jesus riding this "colt" is another ref along the same lines I guess, that Israelites would have understood immediately. But to us that is just "a young donkey/ass" and that's all I guess, at least at first. Until we Read the def elsewhere.

The amazing name Bethphage: meaning and etymology
has a little on it, bottom of section 1, and I think his "Dalmanutha" might have a bit more, Vespasian was known as "the Muleteer" apparently

"the place where two ways met" great observation though imo, never saw that one!

 

[CoreIssue]

Just as yours ad hominem attacks are unnecessary.

Now If I cannot find any evidences that support your POVs, even after you have provided references which you claim support your view, then that speaks for itself that your presented perspective is a doctrine that you have created and is not supported by Scripture.

That the OP is all about him and his wrongly drawn conclusions. That is the irony.​

Agree.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

But to us that is just "a young donkey/ass" and that's all I guess, at least at first. Until we Read the def elsewhere.

not just a young donkey/ass, if so...Zechariah 9:9 would be impossible “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.”

And also would be impossible that back in Genesis 49:11 “Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:”

Mark 10:27
[27] And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Job 11:7-12
[7] Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection? [8] It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know? [9] The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea. [10] If he cut off, and shut up, or gather together, then who can hinder him? [11] For he knoweth vain men: he seeth wickedness also; will he not then consider it ? [12] For vain man would be wise, though man be born like a wild ass's colt.

 

[Episkopos]

not just a young donkey/ass, if so...Zechariah 9:9 would be impossible “Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.”

And also would be impossible that back in Genesis 49:11 “Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass's colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:”

Mark 10:27
[27] And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

Job 11:7-12
[7] Canst thou by searching find out God? canst thou find out the Almighty unto perfection? [8] It is as high as heaven; what canst thou do? deeper than hell; what canst thou know? [9] The measure thereof is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea. [10] If he cut off, and shut up, or gather together, then who can hinder him? [11] For he knoweth vain men: he seeth wickedness also; will he not then consider it ? [12] For vain man would be wise, though man be born like a wild ass's colt.

God indeed uses humility on our part as raw material for His work of righteousness. He rides on us...the wild colts....to make us wise.

The two ways that intersect are holiness and righteousness. Or we could say...glory and humility...grace and truth.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

God indeed uses humility on our part as raw material for His work of righteousness. He rides on us...the wild colts....to make us wise.

The two ways that intersect are holiness and righteousness. Or we could say...glory and humility...grace and truth.

1 Corinthians 3:18-23
[18] Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. [19] For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. [20] And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. [21] Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours; [22] Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours; [23] And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

 

[marks]

We do the same thing with the bible. We purchase a bible...or get a free copy...and then proceed to do the same thing with it. Anything that we deem we want within it's pages...we claim for ourselves.

When we find that the grace of God is given freely...we immediately claim the free stuff for ourselves. After all, it is OUR bible, and anything that we want in it is ours for the taking.

So we bring the same covetous attitude to the bible that we use in the world...to get what WE want.

That's sad!

I certainly recommend against that!

We need to understand it properly, what God wants us to know, so we can know what God wants us to receive. And we find it's far greater than we ever imagined, and far greater that our flesh knew even to covet!

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

We who believe into Jesus are now experiencing HIS eternal kind of life. That is the truth. This is about entering into the miraculous life of Jesus right now. But of course this is taken to mean if you have a religious belief about Jesus that you will have eternal life after you die. That is the selfish way of getting the bible wrong. People call this assurance of salvation... a man-made selfish doctrine that is erroneously cobbled together from drawing the wrong conclusions from certain selected verses.

Actually I'd say that we believe into Jesus now - baptized into Him - and we enter into life now. We become born again, Christ in me, me in Christ, unified with God.

It's not just an "eternal kind of life", it IS eternal life.

And no one, and nothing, can ever separate us from the love of God given us in Christ Jesus.

I find it sad when people believe that God may cast them away, though He promised never to do that.

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

As in...I have experienced such and such miraculous provision or visitation...therefore

Hi Episkopos,

Isn't this what you've claimed?

That you had the unusual experience of not only Christ in you, but also you in Christ from the beginning, but other people don't experience that. And that you've "walked in the heavenlies", entered the throne room of God . . . and so you know things, things about how to be really actually holy, isn't this what you've said? You've had these unusual "heavenly" experiences, so now you understand the hidden mysteries.

It seems that this is what you've explained on other thread. Is this right?

Much love!

Mark

 

[marks]

We can also draw the wrong conclusions when we don't have spiritual experiences or visitations.

Experiences and visitation inform Scritpure. Oh my!

In my "experience", "spiritual experiences and visitations" seem to be what lead people off track so much of the time.

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

But once you understand the rankings in the kingdom...the saints who rule over the righteous who are over the filthy

Who are these exactly?

Thank you!
Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

As a person is so he sees. The Pharisees likewise only saw ambition and the quest for power in Jesus. Why? Because they saw as they were.

Matthew 27:17-18
"Therefore when they were gathered together, Pilate said unto them, Whom will ye that I release unto you? Barabbas, or Jesus which is called Christ? For he knew that for envy they had delivered him."

John 12:19 "The Pharisees therefore said among themselves, Perceive ye how ye prevail nothing? behold, the world is gone after him."

Seems to me the Pharisees were envious.

They saw the real thing and couldn't stand that God was attracting more converts then they. So they did everything they could to destroy Jesus.

They wanted to be "the ones" who had the knowledge, the righteousness, the spirituality, and here's Jesus, the Real Deal. And they couldn't answer him, so they just shut up and killed Him. Their bad.

Much love!
Mark

 

[marks]

I believe the reference to filth is related to holiness. How we can get out garments dirty...with sin. We are to keep our garments pure...so that no one can see the shame of our nakedness. Since the fall of man, nakedness represents shame. Remember that God made clothing for Adam and Eve...to hide their shame.

We are to be holy as God is holy.

If we claim to be in Christ then we will be judged against THAT standard. And that standard is to keep out garments clean...to be holy. Without holiness no one can see the Lord.

Now in todays' church holiness is not a popular subject. It is seen as an old doctrine related to bygone denominations. It is the sign of the present times.

Hi episkopos,

Do you feel stained by your sin?

Your answer will say much, especially if you are willing to follow through in some discussion.

Much love!
mark

 

[marks]

I'm hoping that some people that read this thread will get the irony of the OP to the responses being given here.

Personally I think there is a lot of irony in this thread.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Imo we're a long way from discussing what Noah's sons really rep here, but you might find it interesting what brought about Ham's "curse," "24When Noah awoke from his drunkenness and learned what his youngest son had done to him..."

Habakkuk 2:13-16
[13] Behold, is it not of the Lord of hosts that the people shall labour in the very fire, and the people shall weary themselves for very vanity? [14] For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord , as the waters cover the sea. [15] Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him , and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness! [16] Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the Lord's right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory.


Don’t think it is as much sexual as exposing another's fall or sin...to glory in it to others. Uncovering another’s nakedness for self glory.

What do you see in the Son’s of Noah? you do you see here at: done “you might find it interesting what brought about Ham's "curse," "24When Noah awoke from his drunkenness and learned what his youngest son had done to him..."