The Restrainer

[brakelite]

Jesus, after His Resurrection, showed Himself clearly of what His New body of immortality looked like. The "nail prints" in His hands, and His wounded side were not oozing from any type of healing process, but were completely healed already. Thomas knows!!

I can go along with that. Jesus I believe certainly looked the same as He did prior to Calvary...He ate...and still had flesh and bones. He was not wholly 'spirit', as some suggest. Yet while comprising of flesh and bone, we cannot expect that it is devoid of some extra 'embellishments' we do not presently possess. Guessing as to their nature and composition is I think fun, but vanity.

 

[brakelite]

This is pure nonsense. You are either extremely confused, or trying to confuse everyone else.

I think I half agree with earburner on this one, but coming from perhaps a different perspective. I am not sure if you know this, but we Adventists view the millennium as being a literal period with all the people of God from all ages in heaven, and the earth completely empty and void, similar as it was before creation, when Genesis describes the earth as being without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. That word 'deep' as you probably already know, being in Hebrew תהום
and ἄβυσσος in the Septuagint, with both meaning very similar things...abyss...a place of emptiness and darkness and without life. A grave.
Jeremiah and Isaiah both describe this earth at a time when the whole earth will be in such a sate as to be incapable of sustaining life. This we believe will be the state of how the devil, alone here with only demons to keep him company, is bound by circumstances as to make it impossible for him to deceive anyone...until the wicked are resurrected at the end of the 1000 years and surround the holy city which along with the saints and the Lord, has descended onto the earth in preparation for a new creation...a new creation beginning with the same earth in the same condition as in Genesis; except with broken down cities and nuclear waste and pollution covering the planet...thus fire from heaven to finally cleanse the planet from everything that offends. I do not think earburner had quite the same scenario in mind.

 

[Jay Ross]

Well, Jay, I'm not one of them. I already knew there wasn't any mention in Jeremiah 50, or any other chapter of Jeremiah, relating to a gap of 2000 years, or in fact any other gap of whatever size , between the third and fourth segments of the statue of Daniel 2. What I read in Jeremiah is that the literal city of Babylon would never again be inhabited, that it would remain forever in a similar state as Sodom and Gomorrah, which if you travelled to the middle east, you would discover their ruins at the edges of the dead sea, and my friend, no-one is living there. No-one is living in Babylon either.

Well, it is good that you came close to understanding the portion of Jeremiah.50 where the gap of around 2,000 years can be found but the English translations of the verses around it suggest an infinite time period whereas the verse suggest and age plus an age duration. The question that then needs to be answered is how long is an Age within the sight of God. From my study, an age has the same duration as a day within God's timeframe of reference which when understood within man's timeframe of reference is a little longer that one thousand years. and when we have an age plus an age, we have described 2,000 years.

The chapter then goes on further to describe the many nations from the ends of the earth and both your birth country and your adopted country went along for the ride with the other nations that made up the fifth segment of the statue prophecy and our attempt to heal the land of Babylon.

Rev.19:17-21 also mentions the rebirth of the nation that inhabited the land of Babylon after 1926 as well as the partition of Jerusalem into three partitions after WW2.

If you begin reading the beginning of Jeremiah 50 it sets the time period for the second arrival of the king from the north to the time when the Israelites are seeking their God and the way to Zion.

But you are the man brakelite with your reading and understanding and knowledge of the scriptures and can speak authoritatively on this matter, but I question whether or not you should be highly regarded in your knowledge with regards to this portion of Jeremiah because the gap is hidden from your eyes and your understanding.

If we believe God knows who is responsible for the scattering of Israel 2,000 years ago, then you would expect God to get it right in Joel but God identifies that it is the Greeks who were responsible for scattering the Israelite to the four corners of the earth. No mention is made of the Roman Empire at all in Joel.

Jeremiah goes on in chapter 51 to describe what is happening in your adopted country as well as the country of the king of the north that took the lead role in entering the land of Babylon to heal the land.

The leaders of your birth country have recently demonstrated that they also have no understanding of what is happening in the world at the moment and I await the time when the people, who have entered yours and my birth country, have sufficient numbers to raise up a cry of victory over our respective lands. Jeremiah.50-51 tells us that this will happen soon just as it describes that climate change will also happen because of the same committed iniquities during the recent times by many nations around the world.

Shalom

PS: - The Restrainer is not present at the moment to stop the forces of evil doing their thing.

 

[brakelite]

Well, it is good that you came close to understanding the portion of Jeremiah.50 where the gap of around 2,000 years can be found but the English translations of the verses around it suggest an infinite time period whereas the verse suggest and age plus an age duration. The question that then needs to be answered is how long is an Age within the sight of God. From my study, an age has the same duration as a day within God's timeframe of reference which when understood within man's timeframe of reference is a little longer that one thousand years. and when we have an age plus an age, we have described 2,000 years.

When Sodom and Gomorrah are once again inhabited, I will then believe Babylon can be.
Jer 50:40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof, saith the LORD; so shall no man abide there, neither shall any son of man dwell therein.

The leaders of your birth country have recently demonstrated that they also have no understanding of what is happening in the world at the moment and I await the time when the people, who have entered yours and my birth country, have sufficient numbers to raise up a cry of victory over our respective lands. Jeremiah.50-51 tells us that this will happen soon just as it describes that climate change will also happen because of the same committed iniquities during the recent times by many nations around the world.

I have no fear of Islam...it is Catholicism that is already in the temple of God, (the church), proclaiming itself as being the only way to salvation, "forgiving" sin, playing the role of prophet, king, and priest, thus claiming to be God. Nor do I 'fear' Catholicism but it is comforting to know where the enemy is coming from, and that God knew about it a long time before I did. History Jay, written in the blood of the martyrs across 2000 years, attests to the true Antichrist.

 

[Jay Ross]

When Sodom and Gomorrah are once again inhabited, I will then believe Babylon can be.
Jer 50:40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof, saith the LORD; so shall no man abide there, neither shall any son of man dwell therein.

I have no fear of Islam...it is Catholicism that is already in the temple of God, (the church), proclaiming itself as being the only way to salvation, "forgiving" sin, playing the role of prophet, king, and priest, thus claiming to be God. Nor do I 'fear' Catholicism but it is comforting to know where the enemy is coming from, and that God knew about it a long time before I did. History Jay, written in the blood of the martyrs across 2000 years, attests to the true Antichrist.

First off, your hatred of the RCC has blindsided you, going by your quoted words in the above post.

And yes, reference is made to Sodom and Gomorrah in the next verse to describe the type of devastation and desolation that will be Babylon's experience during the 2,000 plus years that it occurred.

Now I have not pointed my finger at Islam, but Iraq was recognised in 1926 as the nation that had dominion over the previous land of Babylon. The Statue prophecy was to inform the king of what the future was for the Land of Babylon and who would have dominion over the land. The fifth segment to have dominion over the Land of Babylon was the Coalition of the Willing which purposely went into Iraq to heal the land in violation of the prophetic words of God concerning Babylon and what awaited Babylon.

Iran is mentioned in Jeremiah.50-51 as the nation that will pour out God's wrath on the Land of Babylon and its people during this present time.

Sadly, the some of the members of the Coalition of the Willing are not opposing Iran who has been given the task of pouring out God's wrath over the Land and its people of Babylon.

I have no problems with your disbelief, that is your issue to deal with.

Iraq was the fourth segment of the statue with the Coalition of the Willing being the fifth segment of the statue that exercised dominion over the Land of Babylon. History does confirm what I have presented.

Shalom

Shalom

 

[bbyrd009]

No, the whole person (if that is what you were intimating) does not turn into dust. The body...the physical, absolutely...and the soul...nephesh, ceases to exist being a composite of body and spirit. The spirit returns to God. The spirit I do not perceive as being anything more than the life force which gave the body its animating power...it certainly to my mind from what I read in scripture, cannot be a being in its own right having thoughts, feelings, and senses such as we have now, thus whatever is resurrected is based on God's memory...the transcript of character written in heaven which in this life was made holy by the presence of the Spirit of God and purified by the Word.
I do not see anyone in heaven now, apart from those resurrected specifically and uniquely such as those who came out of their graves at the same time as Jesus resurrection. Elijah and Enoch? In actual heaven? I don't know, the scriptures do not tell us. I do believe in the existence of other worlds. Perhaps they are enjoying life there gardening with aliens?

ah ok, ty.
might have some comments later if you care
still deterministic, way, still beliefs, but I def liked the top half fwiw
been good knowing you here, ok bl, you have been an inspiration, your mind is very flexible imo

I'd love to read a quick synopsis of which of your beliefs have changed over the past year or so, if any come to mind. I'll be looking for your stake in the earth too, ok

 

[bbyrd009]

The "bottomless pit" is not an "abyss" !!
It's simply this earth, being Satan's only home and the grave of endless death.
"Pit" means the grave.
.
Now, let's look at the whole picture.
2 Peter [4] For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell [the grave/pit], and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
.
Jude 1[6] And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
.
Rev. 20[1] And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain [darkness] in his hand.
> The book of Rev. Is all symbolic language, of truths in pictorial form. Satan is not bound by a literal chain(s), but rather bound, being separated from the Light of Christ.

Bro, nice!
dunno on whole picture, or ha well i guess i do,
but nevermind that part for now, i still use worldly expressions too i guess

 

[Earburner]

This is pure nonsense. You are either extremely confused, or trying to confuse everyone else.

Here is one reference KJV-Job 17:16
"Pit"
sheh-ole'

Strong: H7585

Orig: or shol \i sheh-ole'\i0\plain\f3\fs21\cf23 ; from 7592; Hades or the world of the dead (as if a subterranean retreat), including its accessories and inmates:--grave, hell, pit.

 

[bbyrd009]

The point I am making is that when I was tempted by Satan, he was not "shut up" in Hell. He is still roaming the earth tempting people. This is my personal proof we are NOT in the Millenium:

1) Because Satan is not shut up, locked in Hell, but is roaming the earth tempting myself and other people
2) Because Jesus Christ is not on the Earth, ruling, but is in Heaven at God's Right hand.

Satan is still the God of this world, still roaming the earth, still the prince of power of the air, and he has been allowed this freedom from the Resurrection of Christ until today. When Jesus Christ returns, Satan will be locked in Hell for 1,000 years unable to roam the earth and tempt people. That has never occurred since the Resurrection of Jesus Christ until now.

Return to Me, and I will return to you

but if you, ever, find any other Instances of return in that context pls let me know ok mr mathews
good luck to you sir

 

[brakelite]

ah ok, ty.
might have some comments later if you care
still deterministic, way, still beliefs, but I def liked the top half fwiw
been good knowing you here, ok bl, you have been an inspiration, your mind is very flexible imo

I'd love to read a quick synopsis of which of your beliefs have changed over the past year or so, if any come to mind. I'll be looking for your stake in the earth too, ok

One major change in beliefs...some changes in attitude. The belief? For nearly all my life I would have listed the trinity as being one of the rpime beliefs of my faith...but I wouldn't have been able to explain why. I mean, everyone does don't they? And they say we must believe it or else!bDont' they? So I guess we gotta believe it right? Sorta like the way Ctholics believe in the transubstantian thingy. They gotta believe it cos the boss says so. Right?
So I decided to study and find out why I believe in the trinity. Apart from the teachings of man, I couldn't find any biblical evidence that stood up without contradictory scriptures that seemed to outweigh it by weight of evidence. My study showed me a loving Father who sent His only Son to become a man, give His life a ransom for many, and request us to do likewise. He who loses His life for My sake, shall find it.
Which leads me to the changes in attitude. Death to self. Surrender.
Romans 12:1 ¶ I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Oh. another thing. I have come to be absolutely convinced that the first principle Christians need to learn, and take to heart in earnest and complete acceptance, is what Jesus revealed when He declared, "Without Me ye can do nothing." "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for they shall see the kingdom of God".

 

[bbyrd009]

Jesus, after His Resurrection, showed Himself clearly of what His New body of immortality looked like.

well, so you say, but if you would could you address there is only One in that context ty

I can go along with that. Jesus I believe certainly looked the same as He did prior to Calvary...He ate...and still had flesh and bones. He was not wholly 'spirit', as some suggest. Yet while comprising of flesh and bone, we cannot expect that it is devoid of some extra 'embellishments' we do not presently possess. Guessing as to their nature and composition is I think fun, but vanity.

i expect it is devoid of any extra embellishments that you cannot possess, today, bl. Fwiw. And if Christ is our High Priests and we are to follow and pick up our own crosses and experience life more abundantly then wouldn't, shouldn't those embellishments be like the only thing we care about? We have a passage about walking side-by-side that i guess I should have threaded years ago, you're great when you're walking side by side, bl. Let the blind lead the blind imo

The "nail prints" in His hands, and His wounded side were not oozing from any type of healing process, but were completely healed already. Thomas knows

if you could Quote where the nails got pounded in thad be great, i can't find it ty
and bonus reply with all the hoopla surrounding all that blood one, single reference to it in the moment would be awesome. Have a good day Eb.

 

[Earburner]

I think I half agree with earburner on this one, but coming from perhaps a different perspective. I am not sure if you know this, but we Adventists view the millennium as being a literal period with all the people of God from all ages in heaven, and the earth completely empty and void, similar as it was before creation, when Genesis describes the earth as being without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. That word 'deep' as you probably already know, being in Hebrew תהום
and ἄβυσσος in the Septuagint, with both meaning very similar things...abyss...a place of emptiness and darkness and without life. A grave.
Jeremiah and Isaiah both describe this earth at a time when the whole earth will be in such a sate as to be incapable of sustaining life. This we believe will be the state of how the devil, alone here with only demons to keep him company, is bound by circumstances as to make it impossible for him to deceive anyone...until the wicked are resurrected at the end of the 1000 years and surround the holy city which along with the saints and the Lord, has descended onto the earth in preparation for a new creation...a new creation beginning with the same earth in the same condition as in Genesis; except with broken down cities and nuclear waste and pollution covering the planet...thus fire from heaven to finally cleanse the planet from everything that offends. I do not think earburner had quite the same scenario in mind.

Yes, the entirety of planet earth will be engulfed in flames (the lake of fire), by the presence of Jesus, being Himself the eternal, all consuming, unquenchable fire. Mat. 3:12; Heb. 12:29
.
2 Peter 3[10] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
[11] Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
[12] Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
[13] Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
> This earth is now Satan's only home. For him to be cast into "the bottomless pit", is graphically portraying that the earth is for him, the place of his endless death/grave.

 

[brakelite]

i expect it is devoid of any extra embellishments that you cannot possess, today, bl. Fwiw.

Okay, I see what you are saying, but I think what you would be referring to are spiritual gifts and character growth, all of which already operated in Christ before the resurrection right? Certainly an embellishment to our own natural life, but not to Jesus Who had them at least since He was 12. What I was thinking of as later embellishment was His seeming ability to penetrate walls and appear in their midst behind locked doors...and disguise Himself when walking down the road with HIs friends. Not that I would have much use for the latter, although I can imagine having some fun with it, but the former, well, that could come in very handy I am sure. Like robbing a bank? Scaring the annoying neighbours? Avoiding paying for the bus? (Although I don't see the sense in that if you've just robbed the bank). Given time I may come up with some serious activities that would indeed make life very abundant.

 

[Earburner]

well, so you say, but if you would could you address there is only One in that context ty

i expect it is devoid of any extra embellishments that you cannot possess, today, bl. Fwiw. And if Christ is our High Priests and we are to follow and pick up our own crosses and experience life more abundantly then wouldn't, shouldn't those embellishments be like the only thing we care about? We have a passage about walking side-by-side that i guess I should have threaded years ago, you're great when you're walking side by side, bl. Let the blind lead the blind imo
if you could Quote where the nails got pounded in thad be great, i can't find it ty
and bonus reply with all the hoopla surrounding all that blood one, single reference to it in the moment would be awesome. Have a good day Eb.

As I said: Thomas knows! Therefore do we also!!

John 20[25] The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

Col. 2[13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
[14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

 

[Davy]

Here is a challenge for you concerning "a thousand years". Please describe the following IN LITERAL TERMS:
2 Peter 3[8] But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Ps 90:4
4 For a thousand years in Thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
KJV

 

[Davy]

You are aware I am sure that because of the very things we are discussing, some futurists who recognise the "Roman factor" in the ascent of the Antichrist, have invented a future "revived Roman Empire" in order for a future antichrist to grow out of it? I see the dismissing of the "Roman factor" equally non-sensical as a future revival.
....

Oh come on... really? You shouldn't be so gullible with men's seminary theories like Futurism.

The fact that the Book of Daniel reveals the "legs of iron" prophecy that represented the old pagan Roman empire, and then the final ten-toed feet of iron mixed with clay, which is pointing once again to Rome as part of the latter day beast, is not a doctrine of men. It is Biblical. That is what the Daniel Scripture suggests.

Now whether or not the Roman Church has anything to do with the final Antichrist in Jerusalem is still yet to be determined. But the politics of Rome no doubt will, as The Club of Rome is involved in financial one-world globalism big time.

 

[Davy]

That's not the way I read scripture. While I agree that different prophecies apply to different times, you can get into all sorts of trouble taking a passage of scripture and applying it to a specific time without corroboration from other scriptures.
We are told some specifics regarding the millennium.

• It starts with a resurrection and it finishes with a resurrection
• The first resurrection is the resurrection to life which takes place at the second coming.
• At the same time, the living saints are changed.
• The saints of all ages then meet together for the first time with their Saviour in the air.
• During this time the devil is bound. He is spirit, therefore whatever is binding him cannot be physical, but circumstantial, which makes sense because of no one is alive on the planet, he cannot tempt them or receive them.
• However, the second resurrection, the resurrection to damnation, takes place at the end of the millennium when the devil is loosed for a short time.
• He now has all the wicked of all ages to deceive, and he does just that.
• The holy city, the new Jerusalem, comes down out of heaven and settles upon the earth and is immediately surrounded by the wicked as well as the devil and his angels, who now understand that their only hope of life now is to forcibly take the throne.
• Fire comes down out of heaven and destroys them all.
• The new heavens and the new earth are created, and it is then that peace finally reigns.

These kind of lists should always be held suspect when no Scripture is given to document them.

In John 5:28-29, Jesus showed both resurrection types, the "resurrection of life" and the "resurrection of damnation" occur on the day of His 2nd coming.

In Isaiah 25, God hinted that the veil between this earthly world and the heavenly world will be removed, for all peoples. In that Scripture is where Apostle Paul was pulling from when teaching about the events in 1 Corinthians 15 with the change at the twinkling of an eye on the last trump, with death being swallowed up in victory.

In 1 Cor.15, Paul included (indirectly) all... peoples still alive on earth being changed on the day of Christ's 2nd coming, not just those of Christ's Church. This because again, he was pulling from Isaiah 25 about death being swallowed up. That will happen for the nations of Rev.20 too. All peoples will be in the spiritual body type for Christ's future reign with His elect.

When Jesus returns, that is when He will reign with His elect over the nations with a rod of iron as prophesied in Psalms 2. Satan will be literally locked in his pit prison during that whole thousand years of Christ's reign. Only at the end of that thousand years will Satan be loosed to go tempt the nations one final time. The reason why the nations must be tested at the end of the thousand years is because it is going to be our job to preach The Gospel to those who have not yet had their opportunity to hear. It will be the job of Christ's Church to teach the difference between the clean and unclean, the holy and the profane.

 

[brakelite]

The fact that the Book of Daniel reveals the "legs of iron" prophecy that represented the old pagan Roman empire, and then the final ten-toed feet of iron mixed with clay, which is pointing once again to Rome as part of the latter day beast, is not a doctrine of men. It is Biblical. That is what the Daniel Scripture suggests.

No, that, it isn't a doctrine of men. But the concept that there's a gap in the statue between those phases of history is a doctrine of man...a product of those schools of futurism you seem to deride.
The mix of clay and iron... The fact that the Roman factor must endure until the second coming within that iron component... The iron continuing throughout history since its introduction with the demise of Greece...within the papacy, suggests to me that there is no need for a revival of Rome considering it had never really left us. If you need to know in what ways pagan Rome can be found in papal Rome, just ask okay?

 

[bbyrd009]

but not to Jesus Who had them at least since He was 12.

hmm wow, not 11 or 13, but 12, surely? Bc you sound um pretty sure about that. i'm vaguely recalling a Ref to "Jesus, 12," if you could Quote it, cool

What I was thinking of as later embellishment was His seeming ability to penetrate walls and appear in their midst behind locked doors...and disguise Himself when walking down the road with HIs friends.

walls and doors have other defs bl, and i don't even need to post them huh. Beware of Magic Yesterday and Magic Tomorrow, but no Magic Today imo. Dunno if "disguise" is um the right concept there either, wadr? I understood that they just did not recognize Him? But there you might be right on, maybe i just missed the disguise ref?

Not that I would have much use for the latter, although I can imagine having some fun with it, but the former, well, that could come in very handy I am sure. Like robbing a bank? Scaring the annoying neighbours? Avoiding paying for the bus? (Although I don't see the sense in that if you've just robbed the bank). Given time I may come up with some serious activities that would indeed make life very abundant.

ya, most of the stuff i come up with generally results in short prison sentences too lol; i had to stop or die i guess. You are maybe looking for um things that you can see with Two Eyes there, bl?

what do you lack in abundance right now, anyway? I don't mean this as a trap question, i suffer lack sometimes, just like anyone. Say it out loud, even to...even if no one else is in the room imo. You can't always get what you want, but you can get what you need i guess. What do you need?

 

[bbyrd009]