Please explain this.

[GodsGrace]

If someone like that truly believes, they will not walk in homosexuality any longer.



See 1 John 3:6 and 1 John 2:17. We abide in Christ by believing in Him; and this results in holiness of character. And we can also abide for ever within Him.



It is not a work...for we abide by faith.



Not required. It (doing good works) is something that is inevitable, however, in the life of anyone who is truly born again. We are new creatures in Christ, inclined to do good works.



I trust that Jesus told us that His Spirit would teach His disciples and guide them into all truth. Thus 2 Peter is inspired scripture. And that 2 Peter 3:15-16 shows us that Paul's writings are holy inspired scripture. Therefore, by trusting in Jesus, I trust that Paul's writings are inspired by Jesus.



All scripture is inspired of the Lord. It is not only the red letters that we are to hold to be authoritative.



That it is not possible to keep the whole law does not make the requirement any less viable, for those who would seek to be justified by their works.



Fact is, Romans 4:5 is not speaking of the works of the law...it is speaking of works period.



Again, John 6:47....not to mention Jesus substantiated the epistles by saying that He would guide the disciples into all truth. And Peter substantiated Paul in 2 Peter 3:15-16.



That is the Lord's call....not mine. But I would say that ultimately the person is not saved. And that is what really counts.



Jesus is definitely saying that our righteousness is from Him in that passage.

You put a lot of thought into this.
I'll answer later if I have time....

 

[GodsGrace]

In some ways for the good and some ways for the bad....doctrine wise for the bad. The problem is that the Church Fathers were taking a beating
and sometimes by each other. They needed to be pulled together. Then also the wolves were circling the pacifistic Christians. The persecutions needed to stop and Christianity needed a little muscle. The story line is not perfect and Constantine was no angel...But still I think God intended for it to happen.

Interesting.
Yes,,,,maybe all those heresies that had to be fought was so that Christianity would come out on the other side much stronger.

But then man got involved and the power struggle began.
The church became involved in governmental affairs and, as far as I can see, it was the end of pure Christianity which then lead to the reformation due to all the misuse of the church.

 

[GodsGrace]

Consider Acts 10:43.

Also, in Acts 13:48, as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. And there is no mention of them ever being baptized.

It should be clear that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand (Romans 5:2).



Not trying to be deceitful. Just not overextending myself by going overboard in my use of scripture, trying to keep to what is relevant.



The text in question being Romans 5:2...they gained access to a relationship to Christ through their faith in Him and what He did for them on the Cross of Calvary.



I've actually seen real miracles happen today...so I would differ from you on that.



Don't go that far in relating my belief...though it is close to that. I believe that those who are baptized in Jesus' Name have that as a point of contact for their faith so that they can have absolute assurance of salvation through the action...but I also see that a person can receive the Holy Ghost simply by asking...Luke 11:9-13.



The blood of Jesus does not only justify...it sanctifies also. Hebrews 10:29, Hebrews 13:12. Is it possible that, when applied, it can do one thing without also doing the other?



Jesus said at one point that He had many things to say to the disciples but that they could not bear all of it at that time. So He would send the Holy Spirit to teach them and to guide them into all truth.



We are filthy rags before the Lord if we are trusting in our works to save us (Isaiah 64:6).



I would say that my answer to that depends on where you are in your walk.

If you are asking the question, "How far can I go in the way of walking towards sin, before I am outside of the grace of God?" then I would say that you are not eternally secure. On the other hand, if the question you are asking is, "How close can I get to Jesus Christ?" Then I would say that there is no danger of you falling away, absolutely zilch, none, as long as you have this attitude.



We are not required; rather, it is our privilege to obey the Lord. "Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power." (Psalms 110:3)



If anyone really believes in Jesus, they will obey Him. Therefore, if they don't obey Him, they are walking in unbelief. And that unbelief is what condemns them (not their disobedience). Their disobedience is only the outward sign of an inward reality that is not good. Therefore, we are saved by grace, but will be judged by our works. Because our works reflect accurately what is truly going on on the inside of us. Again I say, Jesus told us to clean the inside of the cup and platter that the outside may also be clean.



He at the very least implied it in John 15:1-8. "Without me you can do nothing."



Not only did Jesus say it in John 15:1-8; but He also substantiated the writings of the apostles in John 14:26 and John 16:13. If that did not substantiate Paul's writings, it substantiated Peter's; and Peter substantiated Paul's writings in his own (2 Peter 3:15-16).



I am certainly not against doing good works. You should do all the good works that you can, understanding that you are not saved by them; and that neither are you maintaining your salvation through them. Do them out of thankfulness to Christ over the fact that He has saved you, and that this is an eternal reality that cannot be trifled with.



That we are not required to do anything does not mean that we will not do anything. The motivation in the heart of true Christians, towards
doing good works, is based on the fact that we are already saved and have fallen in love with the Lord. Because we love Him, we obey Him. It stems out of a relationship of love, not obligation.



Matthew 5:20 is to be interpreted by Galatians 2:21 and Philippians 3:9.

LOL
OK
I'll answer to this too.
But not now!

 

[GodsGrace]

And the fact is, that you are disagreeing with scripture...but the fact that you take issue with it means that you have heard the truth on the matter...so whatever conviction abides....I pray that it will bring you into a saving knowledge of the pure and unadulterated grace of God.



That is fine with me. For it is written:

Luk 6:22, Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
Luk 6:23, Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

Of course, I'm not giving up on you. As long as you don't put me on Ignore, I will attempt to do what I can to win your soul over to the knowledge of the truth.

I don't put anybody on ignore JBF.
As far as I'm concerned you're a brother in Christ.
It's just that I also have a home to run...
later.

 

[Grailhunter]

Interesting.
Yes,,,,maybe all those heresies that had to be fought was so that Christianity would come out on the other side much stronger.

But then man got involved and the power struggle began.
The church became involved in governmental affairs and, as far as I can see, it was the end of pure Christianity which then lead to the reformation due to all the misuse of the church.

Unlike the Pagan religions, Christianity took the high road.....morality came to be authoritarian, which attracted those that desired power.
Church and State thing. In some ways it went down hill.....but there were still groups that believed a better way.

 

[GodsGrace]

Unlike the Pagan religions, Christianity took the high road.....morality came to be authoritarian, which attracted those that desired power.
Church and State thing. In some ways it went down hill.....but there were still groups that believed a better way.

I don't know that I ever learned about those groups.
And morality cannot be authoritarian.
If it's not by choice...it doesn't work.

Even law enforcement relies on our voluntary adherence to the law.
Think what would happen if we all went nutty and on a rampage....
The law could not stop it.

Do you know how many persons have told me that they don't care for the ECFs and that they were not inspired? Sooooo many.

I tell them that it's THEM that put the bible together...
They can't accept it. Like the book got made all by itself.
All those letters circulating...

Lata...

 

[Grailhunter]

I don't know that I ever learned about those groups.
And morality cannot be authoritarian.
If it's not by choice...it doesn't work.

Even law enforcement relies on our voluntary adherence to the law.
Think what would happen if we all went nutty and on a rampage....
The law could not stop it.

Do you know how many persons have told me that they don't care for the ECFs and that they were not inspired? Sooooo many.

I tell them that it's THEM that put the bible together...
They can't accept it. Like the book got made all by itself.
All those letters circulating...

Lata...[/QUOTE
I think you missed what I meant by authoritarian...
adjective

1. 1.
   favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.
   "the transition from an authoritarian to a democratic regime"
   synonyms: autocratic, dictatorial, totalitarian, despotic, tyrannical, autarchic, draconian, absolute, arbitrary, oppressive, repressive, illiberal, undemocratic, antidemocratic;

Rome...the Empire enforced its doctrine through excommunication and killing.

 

[Grailhunter]

I think you missed what I meant by authoritarian...
adjective

1. 1.
   favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.
   "the transition from an authoritarian to a democratic regime"
   synonyms: autocratic, dictatorial, totalitarian, despotic, tyrannical, autarchic, draconian, absolute, arbitrary, oppressive, repressive, illiberal, undemocratic, antidemocratic;

Rome...the Empire enforced its doctrine through excommunication and killing.

 

[GodsGrace]

I think you missed what I meant by authoritarian...
adjective

1. 1.
   favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom.
   "the transition from an authoritarian to a democratic regime"
   synonyms: autocratic, dictatorial, totalitarian, despotic, tyrannical, autarchic, draconian, absolute, arbitrary, oppressive, repressive, illiberal, undemocratic, antidemocratic;

Rome...the Empire enforced its doctrine through excommunication and killing.

I knew what you meant!

 

[Earburner]

JBF quoted:
Mat 7:23, And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
.
God's Grace replied:
Iniquity is deeper than lawlessness...it is the sin that exists at the very core level, in the heart. Jesus said to make the inside of the cup and platter clean so that the outside may also be clean.
To practice iniquity is to practice lawlessness.
He who practices lawlessness is practicing iniquity.

Iniquity means a lot of sinning, to the point that it changes a person.
.
Earburner's response:
What no one here is understanding is this:
Jesus said: "There are none that are good [Righteous], but God".

Therefore, the conclusion is:
if one DOES NOT HAVE the Righteousness (Goodness) of God within them, they will NEVER be "good" enough to be IN the KoG!!
That is what Mat. 5:20 is all about, and that is what Rom. 8:9 explains, if YOU DON'T have His "Goodness".
Without His "Good" within you (the Holy Spirit),
You will be a "worker of iniquity (Law Breaker) ALWAYS, no matter how perfectly you are at Keeping the Law. Your form of "good" BY the Law, is never equal to His "Good" (Righteousness) of himself.
NEVER!

 

[CNKW3]

If someone like that truly believes, they will not walk in homosexuality any longer.

So then this persons salvation is NOT by faith alone because repentance is required. If repentance is being left out by all these people teaching faith only; what else is being left out?

 

[WalterandDebbie]

JBF quoted:
Mat 7:23, And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
.
God's Grace replied:
Iniquity is deeper than lawlessness...it is the sin that exists at the very core level, in the heart. Jesus said to make the inside of the cup and platter clean so that the outside may also be clean.
To practice iniquity is to practice lawlessness.
He who practices lawlessness is practicing iniquity.

Iniquity means a lot of sinning, to the point that it changes a person.
.
Earburner's response:
What no one here is understanding is this:
Jesus said: "There are none that are good [Righteous], but God".

Therefore, the conclusion is:
if one DOES NOT HAVE the Righteousness (Goodness) of God within them, they will NEVER be "good" enough to be IN the KoG!!
That is what Mat. 5:20 is all about, and that is what Rom. 8:9 explains, if YOU DON'T have His "Goodness".
Without His "Good" within you (the Holy Spirit),
You will be a "worker of iniquity (Law Breaker) ALWAYS, no matter how perfectly you are at Keeping the Law. Your form of "good" BY the Law, is never equal to His "Good" (Righteousness) of himself.
NEVER!

The conclusion of the whole matter is to only speak for yourself, but to keep his/Jesus saying, that we all not only hear his sayings/commandments, which is the bottom line and which is the whole duty. Ecclesiastes 12:13, 14
Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 13Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear God and keep his commandments, for this is the duty of all mankind. 14For God will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil. And in our opinion, this is what the Lord was saying in John 14:15

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

WHO is mixed up?
You were unable to answer a simple question that required a one word answer.

The answer is YES.
We are required to obey God AFTER we're saved.

I've posted so much scripture that is rejected.
How do you understand this:
John 3:36

Jesus said, "Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him.” (John 14:21) He also said that loving God and our fellow men is the summation of the law and the prophets. One might perform good deeds in the course of loving others but there is no particular requirement for this. Loving God and loving others is the fruit of salvation--not the other way around. We are not here to satisfy the requirements of the Law but those who are truly in Him, fulfill the "royal law of love".

"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life." Putting one's faith in Jesus as the Lamb of God who takes away sin, is the only requirement for salvation and salvation is an irrevocable gift. "For the gifts and calling of God are irrevocable..." (Romans 11:29) Why have you chosen "God'sGrace" as your username and then been so quick to reject the concept? Grace is NOT grace if it must be earned in any way.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

So then this persons salvation is NOT by faith alone because repentance is required. If repentance is being left out by all these people teaching faith only; what else is being left out?

Repentance is not a requirement--it is the outcome of grace through faith. I did not choose to repent. I was "cut to the quick" (grief over the sin of my former life) and repentance was granted to me by the Holy Spirit.

 

[CNKW3]

Consider Acts 10:43.

Also, in Acts 13:48, as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. And there is no mention of them ever being baptized.

It should be clear that we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand (Romans 5:2).

I thought we had determined that repentance was needed for Salvation? I don’t see any repentance in acts 10. Was Cornelius baptized? Why was he baptized? We have to let the Bible explain that.
In Peters first sermon he commanded believers to repent and be baptized for remission of sins but NOW you have Peter preaching something different. The Bible is in harmony it does not contradict. And Peter did NOT teach a contradictory message. He didn’t tell one person this and another something else. That is a bad way to study the Bible. Paul, in 1 cor 4 said that he preached the same thing in EVERY church. But for some reason you have Peter and Paul preaching different messages wherever they went.
Look at acts 3:19. Do you think Peter is commanding a different message then the one he preached in chapter 2? No. It’s the same message but the HS records it in a different way to help us gain a better understanding. The sum of thy word is truth.

Read Eph 2:8,9 and Titus 3:5. Same message recorded in different ways to provided us more info for a better understanding. This is the beautiful way in which the Bible is written. God will know who truly loves him. It will be those who care enough to seek out the whole truth and not fall for the quick way out.

Read Eph 5:18,19 and Col 3:16. Same message recorded in different ways to give us more and better understanding.
This is one of things that makes the Bible such a special and unique book.

Not trying to be deceitful. Just not overextending myself by going overboard in my use of scripture, trying to keep to what is relevant.

You are not overextending by supplying two more verses that will help the reader better understand the meaning of what’s being discussed especially when it is all a part of the same thought.

The text in question being Romans 5:2...they gained access to a relationship to Christ through their faith in Him and what He did for them on the Cross of Calvary.

We do have access by faith. This is what John said.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power (the right) to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Faith/belief doesn’t make us a child of God but it gives us the right to become one. Because without faith it is impossible to please God. Heb 11:6.

I've actually seen real miracles happen today...so I would differ from you on that.

Those in the first century could demonstrate. I’ve yet to see anybody that can do that today.
A miracle is something that is immediate, verifiable and without contestation. Those done in the first century could not be denied.
Acts 4:14 And beholding the man which was healed standing with them, they could say nothing against it.

This is true miracle working..
Acts 5:15-16 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them. There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
Also, it was available to EVERY church in the NT. Why is it that “miracles” today always seem to happen at random?

Don't go that far in relating my belief...though it is close to that. I believe that those who are baptized in Jesus' Name have that as a point of contact for their faith so that they can have absolute assurance of salvation through the action...but I also see that a person can receive the Holy Ghost simply by asking...Luke 11:9-13.

Don’t worry, I would never add words to purposefully misrepresent you just like I would hope people would give Peter, Paul and the others the same courtesy. If they didn’t say faith alone, then don’t add it.

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Repentance is not a requirement--it is the outcome of grace through faith. I did not choose to repent. I was "cut to the quick" (grief over the sin of my former life) and repentance was granted to me by the Holy Spirit.

Acts 17:30 King James Version (KJV)
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2 Corinthians 7:10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation without regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

I thought we had determined that repentance was needed for Salvation? I don’t see any repentance in acts 10. Was Cornelius baptized? Why was he baptized? We have to let the Bible explain that.
In Peters first sermon he commanded believers to repent and be baptized for remission of sins but NOW you have Peter preaching something different. The Bible is in harmony it does not contradict. And Peter did NOT teach a contradictory message. He didn’t tell one person this and another something else. That is a bad way to study the Bible. Paul, in 1 cor 4 said that he preached the same thing in EVERY church. But for some reason you have Peter and Paul preaching different messages wherever they went.
Look at acts 3:19. Do you think Peter is commanding a different message then the one he preached in chapter 2? No. It’s the same message but the HS records it in a different way to help us gain a better understanding. The sum of thy word is truth.

Read Eph 2:8,9 and Titus 3:5. Same message recorded in different ways to provided us more info for a better understanding. This is the beautiful way in which the Bible is written. God will know who truly loves him. It will be those who care enough to seek out the whole truth and not fall for the quick way out.

Read Eph 5:18,19 and Col 3:16. Same message recorded in different ways to give us more and better understanding.
This is one of things that makes the Bible such a special and unique book.


You are not overextending by supplying two more verses that will help the reader better understand the meaning of what’s being discussed especially when it is all a part of the same thought.


We do have access by faith. This is what John said.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power (the right) to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Faith/belief doesn’t make us a child of God but it gives us the right to become one. Because without faith it is impossible to please God. Heb 11:6.


Those in the first century could demonstrate. I’ve yet to see anybody that can do that today.
A miracle is something that is immediate, verifiable and without contestation. Those done in the first century could not be denied.
Acts 4:14 And beholding the man which was healed standing with them, they could say nothing against it.

This is true miracle working..
Acts 5:15-16 Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them. There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.
Also, it was available to EVERY church in the NT. Why is it that “miracles” today always seem to happen at random?


Don’t worry, I would never add words to purposefully misrepresent you just like I would hope people would give Peter, Paul and the others the same courtesy. If they didn’t say faith alone, then don’t add it.

Submitting to the Holy Spirit's prompting to repent is an act of obedience--as is submitting to the waters of baptism. They are not requirements for salvation--but they are part of the journey of faith (sanctification). Let's not confuse justification with sanctification.

 

[CNKW3]

Repentance is not a requirement--it is the outcome of grace through faith. I did not choose to repent. I was "cut to the quick" (grief over the sin of my former life) and repentance was granted to me by the Holy Spirit.

Of course it’s a requirement. It’s commanded and a part of the great commission Lk 24:47, acts 2:38; 3:19; 26:20
Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
Why command repentance if we have no choice in the matter? We can obey or not obey. I didn’t take you for a Calvinist.

 

[Lady Crosstalk]

Acts 17:30 King James Version (KJV)
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
2 Corinthians 7:10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation without regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

Interesting--my Bible does not say that repentance leads to salvation in either passage. It merely says that worldly sorrow which lacks repentance leads to spiritual death. It also says further in 2 Corinthians 7:11: "Just see what godly sorrow produced in you...You showed that you have done everything necessary to make things right." In any case, it is God who grants repentance (2 Timothy 2:25).

 

[Grailhunter]

@Lady Crosstalk will probably respond to you if you have not wore her out on this topic. Repentance is not required to be saved....but it is certainly part of the process of salvation.