Diagnosing Mother Teresa

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illini1959

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Mother Teresa never taught that there was any other way to God.
As I explained before - she merely espoused the doctrine of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus, as I presented in post #71:

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338


This is not a guarantee. We leave the ignorant to the mercy of God.
God does NOT judge the ignorant in the same manner as He does those who claim to "know" (John 9:41).


"Preach the Gospel daily - and when necessary, use words" - St. Francis of Assisi

Mother Teresa LIVED this godly philosophy through her example.

Maybe you should follow scripture.

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

There is no "no fault of their own."
 
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GodsGrace

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Are you saying Buddha and Confucious, etc., are other ways to God? If so, that is in direct opposition to scripture....

"“You shall have no other gods before me." Exodus 20:3

"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" 1 Timothy 2:5

"Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me." John 14:6

“You are My witnesses,” declares the Lord,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
So that you may know and believe Me
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
And there will be none after Me.
“I, even I, am the Lord,
And there is no savior besides Me.
“It is I who have declared and saved and proclaimed,
And there was no strange god among you;
So you are My witnesses,” declares the Lord,
“And I am God.
“Even from eternity I am He,..." Isaiah 43:10-13

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Rom 1:20

"....you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.” Acts 1:8

"And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.: John 17:3

"And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” Acts 4:12
People in the O.T. were pantheistic.
There were many gods.

As to Buddha and Confuscious:
Yes. If this is all they knew and were worshipping God in spirit....
I consider them saved.

You think only christians will be in heaven?
If God is love and mercy and justice, should He not have revealed Himself to the whole world and not just the Jews?
 

GodsGrace

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Maybe you should follow scripture.

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

There is no "no fault of their own."
Gee.
You quoted Romans 1:20.
Too bad you don't really believe it.
 

illini1959

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People in the O.T. were pantheistic.
There were many gods.

As to Buddha and Confuscious:
Yes. If this is all they knew and were worshipping God in spirit....
I consider them saved.

You think only christians will be in heaven?
If God is love and mercy and justice, should He not have revealed Himself to the whole world and not just the Jews?

Some people in the OT were pantheistic, not all.

Of course only Christians will be in heaven. That's God's plan, not mine.

You may consider them saved, but God's word says different and I posted a ton of verses showing you.

His gift of salvation is open to everyone - anyone can receive Christ, but He alone is the Way. That's why the bible says the path is narrow and few find it; when people want God's salvation but don't want to do it His way, that's when they take the wide path that leads to destruction. Again, His words, not mine.

He did. Have you read the new testament?
 
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GodsGrace

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Some people in the OT were pantheistic, not all.

Of course only Christians will be in heaven. That's God's plan, not mine.

You may consider them saved, but God's word says different and I posted a ton of verses showing you.

His gift of salvation is open to everyone - anyone can receive Christ, but He alone is the Way. That's why the bible says the path is narrow and few find it; when people want God's salvation but don't want to do it His way, that's when they take the wide path that leads to destruction. Again, His words, not mine.

He did. Have you read the new testament?
I don't know.
Is it in the bible?

Forget about this i,,,,
you go ahead and believe only Christians will be in heaven...
However....don't ever post Romans 1:19-20 again because you don't understand it.

Thanks.
 

tzcho2

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@Enoch111 is 100% right.
WHY belittel a woman that did nothing but the best she could.
Which fruit were BAD that MT produced?
Jesus said that we will be known by our fruit.
Have YOU produced as much fruit as MT?
I doubt it.YOU give the gospel message.
THIS WAS NOT MT's purpose in life.
We are all of the Body,,,but we are not all the same part.
1 Corinthians 12:12-27

Also, try to remember what James said:
James 2:15-17

No one is belittling mt, but commenting honestly on what her professed beliefs, her recorded statements about those of other faiths & what has been reported outside of the propaganda of the Rcc.
Sorry she is some idol of yours, you might benefit from widening your scope of knowledge and not taking it personally when someone has a different point of view from yourself.
 

GodsGrace

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No one is belittling mt, but commenting honestly on what her professed beliefs, her recorded statements about those of other faiths & what has been reported outside of the propaganda of the Rcc.
Sorry she is some idol of yours, you might benefit from widening your scope of knowledge and not taking it personally when someone has a different point of view from yourself.
Yes. I'll try my best to do that.

P.S. I have some other idols you might be interested in:
U2
Sting
Rod Stewart
Mika
Francesco Gabbani
Santana
Michael Jackson
Kid Creole and the Coconuts
etc
etc
etc
etc
 

tzcho2

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I don't know.
Is it in the bible?

Forget about this i,,,,
you go ahead and believe only Christians will be in heaven...
However....don't ever post Romans 1:19-20 again because you don't understand it.

Thanks.
Oh seriously? you are a universalist and you are telling someone else THEY don't understand Romans 1:19-20? much less what is all taught throughout the OT and the NT. Narrow is the gate and few find it..... why would Jesus say that if everyone goes to heaven?
 

illini1959

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I don't know.
Is it in the bible?

Forget about this i,,,,
you go ahead and believe only Christians will be in heaven...
However....don't ever post Romans 1:19-20 again because you don't understand it.

Thanks.

Show me where scripture ever says anyone else will be there -

I'll continue to post what I want, thanks ;)

If you can honestly say anyone other than the children of God, those who've received Christ, will inherit heaven (based on ....?) that shows no understanding of His word which, in turn, leaves you no opening to tell me I don't understand Romans 1.

You asked "should He not have revealed Himself to the whole world and not just the Jews?" How do you not know He did reveal Himself to the whole world? The entire NT is Him revealing Himself to everyone - Paul is specifically called to preach the word to Gentiles - it's all in there.

I don't say any of this with malice or the intention of being rude or ugly - but God's word backs up every post I've made and I haven't seen anything from you to support yours. All I've seen is your opinion.

But I thank you, too. People can disagree without it turning bad and I don't intend for this to turn bad. Have a good day ~
 

GodsGrace

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Show me where scripture ever says anyone else will be there -

I'll continue to post what I want, thanks ;)

If you can honestly say anyone other than the children of God, those who've received Christ, will inherit heaven (based on ....?) that shows no understanding of His word which, in turn, leaves you no opening to tell me I don't understand Romans 1.

You asked "should He not have revealed Himself to the whole world and not just the Jews?" How do you not know He did reveal Himself to the whole world? The entire NT is Him revealing Himself to everyone - Paul is specifically called to preach the word to Gentiles - it's all in there.

I don't say any of this with malice or the intention of being rude or ugly - but God's word backs up every post I've made and I haven't seen anything from you to support yours. All I've seen is your opinion.

But I thank you, too. People can disagree without it turning bad and I don't intend for this to turn bad. Have a good day ~
Could you please explain Romans 1:19-20 for me, please?

19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
 

GodsGrace

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Oh seriously? you are a universalist and you are telling someone else THEY don't understand Romans 1:19-20? much less what is all taught throughout the OT and the NT. Narrow is the gate and few find it..... why would Jesus say that if everyone goes to heaven?
I just am NEVER in an arguing mood.
Look for someone else.
 

illini1959

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Could you please explain Romans 1:19-20 for me, please?

19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

If it's ok, I'd like to reply tomorrow - I'm leaving where I am right now and don't want to shoot of just any reply. I'm not ignoring you and will be back here tomorrow. Ok?

Thanks!
 

GodsGrace

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If it's ok, I'd like to reply tomorrow - I'm leaving where I am right now and don't want to shoot of just any reply. I'm not ignoring you and will be back here tomorrow. Ok?

Thanks!
Sure.
It's midnight here and I'm also logging off.
I hope we can talk about this a little more.
Romans 1:19 is very important to understand.
Good Night!
 

tzcho2

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I just am NEVER in an arguing mood.
Look for someone else.
Short memory....;) you were the one who engaged me, I did not engage you. I did not insult you.
You are the one who made a personal comment/ insult towards me, all because I have a different opinion of MT then you.
 

BreadOfLife

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Maybe you should follow scripture.

"For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse." Romans 1:20

There is no "no fault of their own."
Nothing like cherry-picking verses of Scripture OUT of context to suit your anti-Catholic needs . . .

Romans 1:20 has NOTHING to do with the invincibly ignorant that Jesus spoke of in John 9:41.
When you read it in its proper context - you see that Paul is talking about evil, wicked people who have NO interest in truth but seek to defile everything they touch be seeking their OWN will and not God's:
Romans 118-32
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools 23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like a mortal human being and birds and animals and reptiles.

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.

Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.

Furthermore, just as they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, so God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done. They have become filled with every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; they have no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy. Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.


Don't just QUOTE Scripture - LEARN what it means . . .
 

Nancy

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You really show your heart there Nancy. I don't want to belong to your club.
And why is that? Because I like what someone said, agreed with it emphatically? Hence the Gif. That was not at all anything against you tzcho. I'm sorry if I offended you, which certainly seems I did :(
 
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aspen

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Hmm...

Who here thinks God is going to lose?
God, the guy who sacrificed his Son for all sinners......is going to lose?
I know I wouldn’t dare speak of his sacrifice in vain
 

GodsGrace

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Show me where scripture ever says anyone else will be there -

I'll continue to post what I want, thanks ;)

If you can honestly say anyone other than the children of God, those who've received Christ, will inherit heaven (based on ....?) that shows no understanding of His word which, in turn, leaves you no opening to tell me I don't understand Romans 1.

You asked "should He not have revealed Himself to the whole world and not just the Jews?" How do you not know He did reveal Himself to the whole world? The entire NT is Him revealing Himself to everyone - Paul is specifically called to preach the word to Gentiles - it's all in there.

I don't say any of this with malice or the intention of being rude or ugly - but God's word backs up every post I've made and I haven't seen anything from you to support yours. All I've seen is your opinion.

But I thank you, too. People can disagree without it turning bad and I don't intend for this to turn bad. Have a good day ~
You said we're children of God.
I agree.
Or are we children of Jesus?

Jesus revealed God to the Jews...then He sent the Apostles into the whole world.
Do you think everybody since then has heard of Jesus....What did the whole world mean back then anyway? Do you think they made it to Mongolia? Russia? Japan?
China? The Phillippines?

My opinion just might count for something.
You want scripture?

Here it is:

Romans 1:19-20
19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them.
20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.