A Most Neglected Letter

[CharismaticLady]

Romans 5:1-5
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Have you thought anymore about my question to you of what you believe to be GRACE? Some believe God's grace is God closing His eyes to our sins and giving us a permanent "get out of jail free" pass. Do you too believe grace is unmerited favor?

 

[CharismaticLady]

You aren't seeing yourself at all in the mix. I'm responding to you as you twist what I say...and look for the worst possible rendition of it...even adding things in that I never said. So you are very sensitive and quick with taking offense. That's why I normally just ignore the drama...and you in that case.

So are you looking for a tit-for tat?

Or will you try actually digging deeper into the issues I'm raising up without all the negative misappropriations?

And then there's the plain lies you indulge in which are disingenuous for a real spiritual brother to engage in. Only the nasty element on this forum has recourse to that... But that doesn't stop you.

I never called you a dog. That's your own drama and over-sensitivity in action. You have a vindictive spirit in there. Someone on here called HIMSELF a sheep dog....as if that is a biblical role. So I said to that person that all is well and the sheep dog can return to the kennel. It was meant as a lighthearted joke and a light on a false premise. But you missed that...as you miss the deeper issues.
And the constant hypocrisy of attacks with the "much love"...false advertising just show more drama and falsity.

So then I don't suffer hypocrisy without pointing it out...for the good of all concerned.

E, and @marks

I consider you both brothers of mine because you both have zeal, and you could be of each other if you just tell what you believe to be doctrine and make it a discussion of where you might differ AND WHY, and stop shooting personal arrows at each other. There are many more things you have in common than not.

Don't make me come over there!

 

[CharismaticLady]

@Episkopos and @marks

I wanted to share something else about the letter to Laodecia from Revelation 3. The Laodecians were lukewarm, and God would have them either hot or cold. First before I tell you my take, what does God mean is hot and what is cold?

 

[marks]

Have you thought anymore about my question to you of what you believe to be GRACE? Some believe God's grace is God closing His eyes to our sins and giving us a permanent "get out of jail free" pass. Do you too believe grace is unmerited favor?

Unmerited favor? Yes, God favors us in ways we do not deserve.

I have thought about how to answer this question.

I don't believe God closes His eyes to sin, I think He removes us from the problem of sin, and then we spend our lives learning how to live in that truth.

The simple answer, to me, is that grace is God making a new me as He condemns and executes the old me, having supplied and Ark for me to survive His judgment in, Namely Jesus.

And grace is God in me to give me His new life.

Grace is the power in which we are saved, and the power in which we stand.

Ephesians 2, Romans 5.

Still considering . . .

Much love!

 

[marks]

Mark wrote . . .
I'm truly sorry Episkopos that you feel this could be you. This is the difference from being a servant (factory worker) and being a son - a member of the family.

Please consider these things. We are re-born the spirit children of God, dead to the law, dead to sin, dead to the flesh, dead to the world, alive unto God in Christ, to live a new life. Understanding that this is our new reality is the faith that allows us to live according to this reality.

Much love!

@Episkopos didn't mean it was him that was not assured, only against the liberal false doctrine of OSAS, which as evolved into turning grace into licentiousness. Like Episkopos, I also am in awe of God - awe/fear. His word goes and is to be obeyed with all meekness. Meekness is not a weakness, it is a strength. It equates to a meek horse that will not flinch in battle throwing his rider off. We need to be fully equipped to go right or left instantly with the slightest pull on the reins of the Spirit.

Hi CL,

I was responding to . . .

And the wisest choice is NOT OSAS since we are to fear the Lord and realize that God didn't spare the original factory workers but fired them...and He will also do that to ourselves unless we take His grace for what it is meant for...a better production and not a false sense of security no matter what we do.

Now, I'm not thinking that Episkopos actually believes that he may be "fired", yet to espouse a doctrine that we are not the children, rather we are servants, who may be fired, I really do feel sad about anyone who thinks this.

The assurance that God has got us is a wonderful thing, a liberating thing.

Any belief system that claims that your works will determine your relationship with God will necessarily get you focused on your own works, instead of the finished work of Christ.

And that only leads to more and more works of the flesh as you try to pile on enough to "get you there", when the reality is, these are what pushes you away from your true rewards.

Serving Christ purely out of love for Him, and the desire to do well. Not because this is what's going to "make the grade".

Episkopos - the one who would be Overseer - teaches that we are factory workers who can be fired. I teach that we are children, and we abide in the house forever.

You have to decide which it is you believe.

Much love!

PS . . . great example of meekness! I really like it.

 

[CharismaticLady]

Unmerited favor? Yes, God favors us in ways we do not deserve.

I have thought about how to answer this question.

I don't believe God closes His eyes to sin, I think He removes us from the problem of sin, and then we spend our lives learning how to live in that truth.

The simple answer, to me, is that grace is God making a new me as He condemns and executes the old me, having supplied and Ark for me to survive His judgment in, Namely Jesus.

And grace is God in me to give me His new life.

Grace is the power in which we are saved, and the power in which we stand.

Ephesians 2, Romans 5.

Still considering . . .

Much love!

And grace is God in me to give me His new life.

Grace is the power in which we are saved, and the power in which we stand.

This section is absolutely hitting the nail on the head. You may have heard me mention Semitic styles of writing. Like 1 John is full of contrasts. But there is another one called parallelisms. Saying the same thing twice in a row that confirms the other. They are saying the same thing. Acts 4:33 is one and shows what the apostles believe to be grace.

Acts 4:33
33 And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.

great power
great grace

Acts 1:8
8 "But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you." That is the gospel of grace. The giving of God's power to fulfill the righteous requirements of the law through the baptism of the Holy Spirit, condemns sin in the flesh; IOW makes us dead to sin by changing our nature to a divine nature of Christ.

 

[marks]

E, and @marks

I consider you both brothers of mine because you both have zeal, and you could be of each other if you just tell what you believe to be doctrine and make it a discussion of where you might differ AND WHY, and stop shooting personal arrows at each other. There are many more things you have in common than not.

Don't make me come over there!

I think there is a fundamental difference in what he believes from what I believe. And there is a fundamental difference in how we see each other. And in how communication should happen.

Your thinking is I'm shooting "personal arrows", I don't mind scrolling back through to see if I can spot what you're thinking of, If I've done that, I do well to clean those up.

I do always try to stick to the doctrine!

Much love!

 

[Nancy]

E, and @marks

I consider you both brothers of mine because you both have zeal, and you could be of each other if you just tell what you believe to be doctrine and make it a discussion of where you might differ AND WHY, and stop shooting personal arrows at each other. There are many more things you have in common than not.

Don't make me come over there!

"Don't make me come over there!"
Yeah, what CL said!!!

 

[CharismaticLady]

Mark wrote . . .
I'm truly sorry Episkopos that you feel this could be you. This is the difference from being a servant (factory worker) and being a son - a member of the family.

Please consider these things. We are re-born the spirit children of God, dead to the law, dead to sin, dead to the flesh, dead to the world, alive unto God in Christ, to live a new life. Understanding that this is our new reality is the faith that allows us to live according to this reality.

Much love!


Hi CL,

I was responding to . . .


Now, I'm not thinking that Episkopos actually believes that he may be "fired", yet to espouse a doctrine that we are not the children, rather we are servants, who may be fired, I really do feel sad about anyone who thinks this.

The assurance that God has got us is a wonderful thing, a liberating thing.

Any belief system that claims that your works will determine your relationship with God will necessarily get you focused on your own works, instead of the finished work of Christ.

And that only leads to more and more works of the flesh as you try to pile on enough to "get you there", when the reality is, these are what pushes you away from your true rewards.

Serving Christ purely out of love for Him, and the desire to do well. Not because this is what's going to "make the grade".

Episkopos - the one who would be Overseer - teaches that we are factory workers who can be fired. I teach that we are children, and we abide in the house forever.

You have to decide which it is you believe.

Much love!

PS . . . great example of meekness! I really like it.

and @Episkopos

The true Christian can have assurance, but it is NOT the license to sin false doctrine that is far too often attached to OSAS, that started in the 1500's, in the church age of Sardis.

1 John 3:18-23
18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment

 

[CharismaticLady]

I think there is a fundamental difference in what he believes from what I believe. And there is a fundamental difference in how we see each other. And in how communication should happen.

Your thinking is I'm shooting "personal arrows", I don't mind scrolling back through to see if I can spot what you're thinking of, If I've done that, I do well to clean those up.

I do always try to stick to the doctrine!

Much love!

I know you do and I and Episkopos and I have more in common doctrinally, but I absolutely love my fun discussions with you. I was well edified.

 

[marks]

I know you do and I and Episkopos and I have more in common doctrinally, but I absolutely love my fun discussions with you. I was well edified.

Me too!

 

[marks]

and @Episkopos

The true Christian can have assurance, but it is NOT the license to sin false doctrine that is far too often attached to OSAS, that started in the 1500's, in the church age of Sardis.

1 John 3:18-23
18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 20 For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment

"I write these things that you may not sin." That is God's intent.

He saves us away from our sin, and to Himself.

Now we are alive unto God. Not so that we can wallow in the mire.

Too much wallowing should make one wonder who they actaully are.

Walking in Love gives us assurance that we know Him. And if we loves others, we will keep His commandments. He's the one that knows what's best. We don't just do whatever we want just because we are the children, Father is Who knows best!

Much love!

 

[CharismaticLady]

@marks
go back to the walk on water post. we are all waiting for your response to the question regarding the episode of the disciples and Jesus all in the boat during the storm. What should the disciples have DONE while Jesus was asleep?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

A few exerpts, for a reminder . . .

Christianity Board Forum Rules

All members should be treated with the utmost respect and courtesy at all times following the rules of civil discourse, this includes heated debate discussions or even in daily discussion in the shoutbox.No insults are allowed.

[*]Do not attack another member's character in any way. Address the post content, not the member's character, family, denominational affiliation or any other subject that may be perceived as a personal attack by the Christianity Board team and is not germane to the topic or post at hand.
[*]Do not state or imply that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christians.

Much love - the best rule of all!

He hasn't attacked your character. I know you perceive that He does, but that's just your perception.

 

[marks]

@marks
go back to the walk on water post. we are all waiting for your response to the question regarding the episode of the disciples and Jesus all in the boat during the storm. What should the disciples have DONE while Jesus was asleep?

Maybe you missed my answer. Sail the boat.

 

[marks]

He hasn't attacked your character. I know you perceive that He does, but that's just your perception.

The fact is, I have Excellent reading comprehension.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Yes, you are perfect in every way. Epi is a mean monster.

 

[marks]

Yes, you are perfect in every way. Epi is a mean monster.

Do you realize that this post is all at the same time . . .

Marginalizing
Manipulative
Disengenuous
Hostile?

And if not, what is it?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I think it's sheer exhaustion at listening to your constant harassment of the man and your never-ending attempts to insist he is attacking you and speaking great evils of you. It makes me cranky to have to listen to it constantly. Meanwhile, your attacks are very proper and mannerly, but passive-aggressive. It is a bit transparent that you are after him to try to control every word he speaks and how he speaks it. I grew up in a family steeped in P-A. It makes me cranky to see the manipulations masquerading as angelic perfection.

 

[OzSpen]

Actually, its a carefully worded attempted marginalization.

Rather than respond to my content, the poster makes personal comments about me.

"Oh, you're just blind!"

That so advances learning and understanding, and expresses a heart of gentleness and love, don't you think?

Much love!

marks,

Technically, it's an Ad Hominem (Abusive) Logical Fallacy. We can't advance helpful dialogue when people do this.

With this erroneous reasoning, in #13 stated, 'I'm sorry that your philosophy has caused you to lack the basic reading skills....'

He was attacking you as a person who was making an argument. He was not dealing with the content of what you had written. When the attack is against the person and uses an irrelevant argument to the topic, it is an Ad Hominen (Abusive) Logical Fallacy.

I see it happening all too often around here and my view is that these people ought to be shown what they do.

@Episkopos, in #13 you used an Ad Hominem fallacy. It is fallacious (erroneous) reasoning and we can't have a rational conversation when you do this.

Oz