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Featured A Most Neglected Letter

Discussion in 'Christian Spirituality Forum' started by Episkopos, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    A couple of posts from another thread illustrate something well, I think.

    This was episkopos' characterization of another poster.

    But this illustrates his understanding of discussion.

    Top down, as if you have a superior understanding. As if there is something wrong with this approach. Am I reading something into this?

    Episkopos is looking for dialog as brothers? OK, I like that. Is that what he's doing? He wants to engage in the points made, yes?

    Let's see.

    This is just a small sampling.

    Episkopos is looking for dialog as brothers? Is that what it looks like to you?

    Not to me.

    Much love! No matter how much he accuses me otherwise.
     
  2. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi Oz,

    Yes. That's what it is. This has gotten me a certain dislike from some. I like to bring hidden things into the light, and some can't stand that.

    Much love!
     
  3. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    There's another aspect to this (oh, and kudos on knowing your Logical Fallacies. I think anyone who wants to debate needs to learn these, so they can avoid making arguments that actually work against them.)

    Another aspect of all this is a matter of who's side of the fence.

    Let me tell you about me. The minute you leave off the discussion at hand, to begin to talk about me, it stops being a discussion, and becomes an indictment.

    But this is so often done by those who have no argument to make.

    They give this great claims and doctrines, and the moment someone questions them, "How Dare You" (that top down thing). And because they have no real support for those claims, turn on you. Emotions flare, and words go wild.

    What many people don't understand is that I don't have a dog in the fight. I don't care what the answer is, so long as it is the right one. Some people have found doctrines that allow them the luxury of seeing themselves as the elite in the faith, and find the emotional energy rising to heavily defend these positions. I'm not saying that this is what is happening here, but I know it happens, and, well, out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

    Someone who is constantly saying insulting and derisive things, well, what does that say?

    Personally, when I'm in the wrong, I regret that, and I apologize in a way that people can know that I know I was wrong, that I regret, and that I want to make amends.

    What bothers me a lot . . . none of this should be among believers. It's very sad to me.

    Much love!
     
  4. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

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    marks,

    It's the job of Christian teachers in church or on Christian forums to be watch-persons for false doctrine. People don't like warnings and correction but the Christian teacher, before God, has a responsibility beyond this world: 'Dear brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers in the church, for we who teach will be judged more strictly' (James 3:1 NLT).

    I must admit that correcting false doctrine can become draining. See my articles,
    Oz
     
  5. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    This is why we need to make sure we live in the Holy Spirit, and do those works He wants.

    Then we serve in His strength.

    It's the time that does me in. I want to be discussing Jesus and the Bible, and I end up spending so much time trying to show others how their negative communication styles tear down rather than build. The to be reviled for it, and ultimately ignored.

    But as you say . . . those who will teach will be judged more strictly, and that is something I NEVER forget.

    Much love!
     
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  6. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    Lol.
     
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  7. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Drama:
    "Personal drama is when a person wants to be noticed and talks non stop about their issues and they make it a bigger deal than it should be of things and are very loud about it."


    How to Avoid Drama
     
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  8. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

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    To whom and about what?
     
  9. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

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    How does this comment relate to your OP topic?
     
  10. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

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    The most extensive list I've found of logical fallacies is on the website, Logically Fallacious.

    A shorter list of the more common fallacies is on the Nizkor Project: Fallacies.

    Oz
     
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  11. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    How does this comment relate to the OP topic?
     
  12. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

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    Easy! When you or others use fallacious reasoning on this forum in trying to communicate what the OP states, before God I have a teaching responsibility to show how you are attacking the person and not dealing with the issues in the person's post.

    You are being impudent with your response to me here because I showed the need to deal with fallacies, one of which you committed at #13: 'I'm sorry that your philosophy has caused you to lack the basic reading skills....'
     
  13. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    You have a God-given mandate to derail a thread? Only in your own mind you do. Your premise is itself the greatest logical fallacy. You have given yourself your own mandate.

    Have you heard of Don Quixote?
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
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  14. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @Episkopos,

    What bothers me about entries like this is that they are essentially like that spoken of in Matthew 7:1-5:-

    'Judge not, that ye be not judged.
    For with what judgement ye judge, ye shall be judged:
    and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
    And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye,
    but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
    Or how wilt thou say to thy brother,
    "Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye;"
    and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
    Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye;
    and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.'

    (Matthew 7:1-5)

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
  15. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    I think that most people would agree that Jesus has the right to judge the church....and because of His love for us, also to warn us how to avoid an unfavourable judgment.

    Now the bible records these warnings of Jesus and the apostles.

    Writing out these warnings for others to consider would be the right thing to do. Avoiding those warnings by calling them negative or judgmental would go against the spirit of Jesus' words....that is to save our lives.

    Jesus can't save us if we ignore His words.
     
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  16. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    Oh my gosh...lol!
     
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  17. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @Episkopos,

    Yes, it is good to measure ourselves against God's Word, I agree.

    Yet, you say, (quote) 'it seems that everybody thinks that they have all sufficiency ... that they are rich. But the truth is that there is very little life of Jesus going on in the church. Very little power and a LOT of defeat'

    -------------

    * Why should I not think that I have all sufficiency, @Episkopos, when I am told in Colossians 2:10 that I am 'complete' in Christ Jesus? and in Ephesians 1:6 that I am 'accepted in the Beloved'? Why should I not think that I am rich when I read in Ephesians 1:3 that I have been blessed with 'ALL spiritual blessings in Heavenly Places in Christ Jesus'? Why should I doubt that? Or seek to gain yet more grace, when I have been already so very blessed, and have been assured that His grace is sufficient for me? (2 Corinthians 12:9) and that the power of His resurrection is at work within me? (Ephesians 1:19; Ephesians 3:20 )

    * I do not believe that this warning is for me, as a member of 'the Church which is His Body the fullness of Him that filleth all in all'. (Ephesians 1:22,23)

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  18. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    You are saying that you are mentioned in the bible? Now it does say that the greatest of these is charity. But you shouldn't confuse a biblical name with your username.

    It is easy to claim to be everything that sounds good and positive in the bible (of course while ignoring everything that sounds more realistically negative to us). But it is presumption and indoctrination that causes the biblical standards to be assumed to be in one's possession without any recourse to actual reality.

    So then claiming to be something from yourself is a waste of time really.

    Try humility instead. THAT is actually biblical. Claiming to be more than one is...is not.

    And I notice you always say...I...instead of we. What does the bible teach about the ego...do you know?

    Have you read....no longer..I.. ?

    Have you ever heard of Don Quixote?
     
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  19. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @Episkopos,
    * I have said no such thing!! This is my user name: my actual name is Christine.

    ---------------

    * All that I have said is true according to God's reckoning. I am required to believe it, and acknowledge it's truth, so would you condemn me for doing just that?

    * I, like Paul confess that in me, that is in my flesh, there is no good thing: but for me to doubt what God has assured me I am in Christ Jesus by His power and according to His will, would be very wrong - and a false humility.

    * I will praise God for what Christ has achieved for me in Christ Jesus, and bless His Holy Name.

    * I use the word, I, for I can only speak for myself. Yet when I pray to God, I include all the members of the Body of Christ as one with me in Christ Jesus.

    * Your judgement of me is of no consequence in the sight of God: for He knows that in Christ Jesus, I am in His sight 'Holy and without blame,' (Ephesians 1:4) because of what Christ has done.

    Praise His Holy Name!

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
  20. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Why is this of more value than...

    Rev. 3:17 "And you do not realize that you are wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked."

    Why is it so important to choose what sounds better to you? Didn't Jesus also say of us that we are blind and naked? Why do you choose to ignore the words of Jesus? To what end?

    A delusional person will only believe what he deems as fitting in with his delusion...while ignoring reality.

    Religiously indoctrinated people follow that same principle. A lack of reality stemming from a lack of humility and fear of the Lord.


    We indeed have access to all things in Jesus Christ. But it is disingenuous to claim to have His benefits for yourself while looking down on others thinking you could not possibly be wrong about your own assumptions as other are.

    It is wise to hear the whole counsel of God. Those who cherry pick what they want to hear are NOT walking in the truth.

    So you also need to consider that you are poor, naked, and blind...

    Or as the disciples said...Lord, is it I?

    If all believers would just take Jesus more seriously we would eliminate a lot of problems in the church.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
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