The Church The Papacy Says You Should Join

[aspen]

Asp, I'm sorry but the burden of proof is upon papists to defend their position that -- allegedly -- a bunch of "papist heretics" have been running around writing things like "thou (pope) art another God on Earth" and "Our Lord God the Pope" for centuries against the wishes of papal authority.

It is not unreasonable to challenge such a position by asking you papists to provide:

1) historic account of "papal heretics" such as these put to death for their heresy
2) banning and burning of all works which contain similar examples of "heresy" as described above
3) papal bulls officially denouncing these "papal heretics" and their works

It is also well within the bounds of reason to conclude that, if no such provision can be made, the papacy has taken no such action because the papacy condones these blasphemous statements.

Well, first I am not a Papist nor do I have any burden to help you construct your scarecrow. You have decided to talk up some monstrous structure and call it the Catholic Church. Like I said before, you are not in charge here. If you are really interested in an exchange of ideas than great - if you are just on smear campaign, see you later

 

[ScottA]

At least TWO of those passages (Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Peter 2:20-22) speak to born again believers with an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and the danger of them falling back into darkness and losing their security. Epignosis is defined as a FULL and experiential knowledge - not just an intellectual assent.

Your religious "EPIGNOSIS" hypocrisy is showing. You can't even explain your misunderstanding without blundering the first sentence.

By definition, you error:

By calling them "them", you prove them not to be born again. For if they were born again, by definition, they would be "Him" ("Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me").

 

[Taken]

Ummmmm, I never stated that being saved once is a lie.

Uh...LOL

Perhaps you are unaware that a fallacy is an UNTRUTH, and an UNTRUTH is a lie.

In this VERY post you say...

...the fallacy of OSAS...

I have said repeatedly what the BIBLE days - that salvation is a process and not a one-time, slam-dunk event.

Yes you have repeatedly preached your erroneous Belief.

NO, SALVATION is NOT A PROCESS.

The MAN PREPARING "TO RECEIVE" Salvation IS THE MANS "PROCESS of Preparation".

We do NOT RECEIVE "SALVATION" in "INCREMENTS"!!! .

THE man puts INSELF in the POSITION to BECOME PREPARED and FOLLOWS THOUGH WITH HIS PREPARATION.

IT IS Thee Lord GOD who GIVES "INCREMENTS" of FAITH to the man....NOT "INCREMENTS" of SALVATION!!

LEADING UP TO....BECOMING PREPARED TO...Receive SALVATION...IS A PROCESS..

It's CALLED....HEARING...(BY the man)
which is the BEGINNING of Preparation.
Rom 10:17 ... HEARING

It's CALLED ....FOLLOWING.....(BY the man) which is a STAGE of Preparation.
Matt 4:19 .... FOLLOW JESUS

It is CALLED....TRUST....(By the man)
Which is a STAGE of Preparation.
2 Cor 3:4 ....TRUST THROUGHT JESUS

It is CALLED.....BELIEF....(BY the man)
Which is a STAGE of Preparation.
John 14:1 ......BELIEVE IN God and IN JESUS

Is is CALLED....FAITH....(A gift Forward FROM the Lord TO the Man WHO PREPARES, according to the Lords Design.
Which FAITH is an on going GIFT that INCREASES forward to the man DURING his Preparation.

AND the LAST STEP ....(BY the man)....
IS his WILLING CHOICE to "COMMIT" to Receiving the GIft of the Lords "SALVATION"

And the LAST STEP.....(By the Lord)....
IS Thee Lord "CONVERTING" the man.

The Bible is CLEAR about the fact that we go through:

Yes it is....however per your usual, you do not distnguish the True FACTS and Verifying Scripture.

YOU TEACH....you RECEIVED the HOLY SPIRIT...as a BABY, without your Knowledge...

AND the FACT is your claiming to have received the HOLY SPIRIT...

IS ALSO WITHOUT;
Hearing,
Following,
Trusting,
Believing,
Having received Faith

In Direct Contrast to Scripture.

Receiving the HOLY SPIRIT....IS PART of a Mans CONVERSION, that deals with the WHOLE of a MAN....body, soul, spirit.

You have this weird teaching....that you received the HOLY SPIRIT, without your knowledge, without Faith...
AND that you THEN have some drawn out process to receive Salvation...

That is not a Biblical Teaching that Applies to a man IN Christ.

You often appear to be oblivious the Jews were teaching Jews, and Jews WERE under the familiarity of THEIR LAWS...and that MANY of the Jews elected to REMAIN UNDER their LAW, (their law....not a Gentiles Law! ) "THER LAWS" HAS Zero application to a man RECEIVING SALVATION and QUICKENING....THROUGH Jesus...while still ALIVE in their flesh.

As you OFTEN BRAG about "your" church being so ANCIENT....it is obvious...by the things you say and scriptures you reference...you have zero sense of ability to determine proper applicability.

People like YOU simply refuse to believe this because it's a lot easier to believe in the fallacy of OSAS. You lack the faith to persevere.

LOL...
People like me LISTEN when the Word of God is SPEAKING TO US ABOUT US.

Unlike you....WHO thumbs through Scripture, picking this one and that one....and then standing on your self-proclaimed teaching soapbox, Wagging your tongue, Dictating with vile endeavors WHAT APPLIES TO OTHER PEOPLE, when they themselves have made no such claims.

OSAS is a NOT a Lie, Untruth, of fallacy...as you say, which all mean the same thing.

IF YOU have ADOPTED Jewish Law, that your Salvation is Received AT THE END of OF your Physical existance....AFTER faithfully executing the Juridsictional LAW of the JEWS, accomplishing WORKS "according to JEWISH LAWS", and AT the END of your physical existance BEING FOUND ACCEPTABLE TO the "GOD" to Receive the GIFT of SALVATION...

Then WHY PRETEND, you have ACCEPTED Jesus as the Christ Messiah and HIS gift of Salvation IS GIVEN A MAN "WHILE the man is STILL ALIVE IN HIS FLESH, YET Spiritualy DEAD, having been Crucified BODILY WITH Christ, and thus LIVES IN HIS HOLY risen Body?

Dude....I am NOT Jewish! I don't DO WORKS according to JEWISH LAW...with the HOPE I "WILL" receive Approval of God and receive His GIFT of SALVATION!

I am a Gentile....WHO Heard, Followed, Believed, and Willingly SUBMITTED to God...
THROUGH Christ the Lord Jesus.... AND FOR THAT Belief, I was Given Faith, and with that FAITH, I was PrEPARED TO COMMIT, and with that Preparation, I WILLINGLY Committed,
AND Because of MY Willing Commitment...
I was "ONCE and Forever given the GIFT of SALVATION"...BY and THROUGH Christ thee Lord Jesus.

Apparently YOU are Oblivious....MANY MANY Jews DO NOT BELIEVE JESUS IS THEIR CHRIST MESSIAH....and MUST THROUGH obedience to their LAW "during their physical LIFETIME" continually FOLLOW their law IN OBEDIENCE.

Jesus' JEWISH disciples were TEACHING Jews ABOUT Jesus the Christ....that THEY may trust to believe THEY COULD RECEIVE THEIR SALVATION>>>>THEN..BY GOING THROUGH Jesus INSTEAD of THROUGH their Jewish Law.

You teach like you the ENTIRE New Testament is all about YOU... a Gentile, and your Chruch.....

It isn't!! MUCH of the New Testament is DIRECTED TO JEWS, ABOUT JEWS, BY JEWS....Learning TO stop talking and LISTEN...TO the GOOD NEWS...OF PRESENT SALVATION is COME to THEM.

You are a Gentile...a SIDE LINE of the prominence of the New Testament....but you act like you ARE the center stage...you aren't.

There is much wisdom in listening and learning HOW TO RIGHTFULLY DIVIDE THE WORD OF TRUTH....<--- and THAT when accomplished reveals TRUE Applicability....
Which you have repeatedly proven is NOT an accomplishment you have mastered.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

There you go again spewing out your usual manure . . .

First of all, the Bible says that those in Heaven are PERFECT. Rev. 21:27 tells us that NOTHING impure or imperfect can enter Heaven.
You ARE right about one thing, though: You agree that there are no dead people in Heaven. Therefore, we Catholics don't ask DEAD people to pray for us.

Eh how to communicate with your person...flesh....human....Terrestrial....part of you about Spiritual things....shen you have fail to reveal you comprehend the difference.

Finally - you anti-Catholics are fond of using Rom. 3:10 to say that Mary wasn't sinless because it says that there is NONE righteous.

LOL....having a hard time sticking to a relevant point?

I have never claimed to be anti-Catholic.
If you are anti-Protestant, why not stick to claims about yourself and not worry about others?

Mary's body is rotting in a tomb....that's your idea of sinless perfection? LOL

However, when saying that we should pray for one another, James says that they prayer of the RIGHTEOUS person is very powerful (James 5:16). Those in Heaven are made RIGHTEOUS in Christ - so we ask them to pray for us.

I could care less WHOM you ask to pray for you....Personally it would probably benefit you to ASK everyone you speak to, since you seem to be in Great need of God to know you are in Great need of an intervention.

I on the other hand, different than you, have a DIRECT LINE of Communication TO GOD. That is MY Gift For having GONE "THROUGH" Christ Jesus.

It's all 100% BIBLICAL, my ignorant friend . . .

I NEVER challenge Scripture, You ignorant man.

It is YOU, "through your" ignorance, that IS the whole crux of dispute between YOU and every person on this forum.
You mistakenly believe you are everyone's APPOINTED TEACHER....DICTATOR of OTHERS Beliefs....when you are incorrect on both accounts.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

I follow ALL of Christ's teachings.
I don't pick and choose at the "Buffet of Christianity" like YOU do . . .

PRECISELY!!

I absolutely PICK AND CHOOSE!



Jesus taught about DYING IN your SIN...
Jesus taught about BEING RAISED IN DAMNATION...
Jesus taught about being DIVIDED in Standing AGAINST God.

Just a few Examples....but thanks for sharing OUT OF YOUR OWN MOUTH...you follow "ALL" of Christ's teachings....

While YOU Are following law dictating SIN...I'm free from sin.

While YOU Are trying to PROCESS THROUGH to Receive the Gift of Salvation....I have ALREADY Received my Gift of Salvation.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Marymog]

What do you mean by "condemnation"?

Because it can mean "to denounce beliefs or actions" or "judge another as eternally lost". There's a diff.

I never wrote the word "condemnation" sooooo I am not sure who you are quoting.....

2nd time asking: How do you account for the heretical acts of your church?

 

[Marymog]

I've already directed you to one of the most authoritative sources on papist abuse, ex-papal Psychologist Richard Sipe, one who is in a position to speak authoritatively on the issue moreso than most - who says that six percent of all priests have acted out sexually with minors.

You can't provide such statistical analysis about Protestants because the severity of the problem is not anywhere near the level that would warrant the establishment of similar system where psychologists would treat Protestant ministers for their "problem" in such a way as to determine such findings as Sipe has determined.

You're asking me to prove a negative - that ministers don't offend as often as priests. I'm asking you to prove they do, which you can't...not by statistics, not by media coverage, not by $$$ paid out in victim compensation, etc. Hit pieces by anti-Protestants and pseudo-Protestant orgs like Billy Graham's outfit are hardly any basis for real data, y'know, they're all just a bunch of hacks bending over backwards to get Christians to join the ecumenical soup

Got it....thank you. You accept one man, a former priest and psychotherapist, as an "authoritive" source for abuse in the CC but downplay the MOUNTAINS of evidence of abuse in YOUR OWN CHURCH and Christian Churches that show the rate of abuse is at least the same or higher? Calling them "hit pieces".......SERIOUSLY???? I feel sorry for you

Once again CAN YOU SEE WHY IT IS SOOOOOO HARD TO TAKE YOU SERIOUS????? (it's because you are dishonest)

 

[Marymog]

Scriptures that I choose to Read, reread, cross reference, study, reread, then Ask God for His Understanding for the specific Scriptures I have given diligent effort to learn about....YES...I trust the Understanding God gives me.

Glory to God,
Taken

Hi Taken,

Clement of Rome, Ignatious of Antioch, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Calvin, Luther etc ALSO "read, reread, cross reference, study, reread, then Ask God for His Understanding for the specific Scriptures". They ALSO gave a diligent effort to learn.

When their interpretation of Scripture is OPPOSITE than yours who was God deceiving? You or them???

After all, according to your theory, the understanding of Scripture does not come from STUDY...it comes from God!


Curious Mary

 

[Phoneman777]

Uh huh - and every time you produce one of your "examples" - it is ALWAYS something taken out of context or a second or third party source - but never a PRIMARY source.

Gee - I WONDER why that is, Phoney??

So, of which of the two options is the papacy guilty? An organization which turns a blind eye to the many "papal heretics" in her midst who write contrary to what the papacy truly believes...

...or an organization which totally agrees with these "papal heretics"?

 

[Phoneman777]

Got it....thank you. You accept one man, a former priest and psychotherapist, as an "authoritive" source for abuse in the CC but downplay the MOUNTAINS of evidence of abuse in YOUR OWN CHURCH and Christian Churches that show the rate of abuse is at least the same or higher? Calling them "hit pieces".......SERIOUSLY???? I feel sorry for you

Once again CAN YOU SEE WHY IT IS SOOOOOO HARD TO TAKE YOU SERIOUS????? (it's because you are dishonest)

We'll have to agree to disagree, then. But I think in the court of public opinion, it is well known which of our two churches is the real problem...too bad people can't see as clearly as did the Protestant Reformers, though.

 

[Phoneman777]

Well, first I am not a Papist nor do I have any burden to help you construct your scarecrow. You have decided to talk up some monstrous structure and call it the Catholic Church. Like I said before, you are not in charge here. If you are really interested in an exchange of ideas than great - if you are just on smear campaign, see you later

Charles Spurgeon says "no sane man ought to raise the question" as to whether the Antichrist is "the popery in Rome"...so, I guess he's as guilty as I, right? LOL

 

[Phoneman777]

I never wrote the word "condemnation" sooooo I am not sure who you are quoting.....

2nd time asking: How do you account for the heretical acts of your church?

"sigh" yes....you wrote "condemn"...I'm asking you "condemn" in the sense of WHAT???

one's actions as unBiblical, or...

one's soul to hell?

 

[aspen]

Charles Spurgeon says "no sane man ought to raise the question" as to whether the Antichrist is "the popery in Rome"...so, I guess he's as guilty as I, right? LOL

I always though he was a jerk

 

[Philip James]

.so, I guess he's as guilty as I, right?

Yes. And I am equally guilty..,

Praise to our Lord, Jesus Christ, who suffered and died that we might be released from the penalty for that guilt..

Christ IS risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Taken]

Not according to HIS Sacred Word . . .

The ONCE and ALWAYS Saved...BOL claims ARE NOT SAVED....

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Ofcourse Paul is waring men to REMAIN in Gods Favor or they WILL BE CUT OFF.

WHAT IS Favorable TO GOD?

Simple...Continue to Hear, Learn and Believe...IF THEY Don't they WILL LOSE Their Salvation.

You ASK repeatedly ....

How can they LOSE what they Never Had

Repeatedly you have been TOLD...

Jesus Came to EARTH ...TO:

John 6
[51] I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

The FLESH that Jesus GAVE, IS HIS BODY.

Heb 10
[10] By the which will we are sanctified through the Offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Eph 1
[22] And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,
[23] Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all [/B]

Jesus CAME TO EARTH...
Jesus GAVE His BODY of FLESH..."ONCE" and "FOR ALL"..

So...to your question...

How can they LOSE what they NEVER HAD ?

UH...WHY DIDN"T THEY HAVE IT....IT, the GIFT of SALVATION....JESUS OFFERED TO THE WHOLE WORLD?

NOT a MYSTERY BOL...

OFFERED GIFTS "FOR" the ENTIRE WORLD...
"IS THEIRS"...."FOR" EVERYONE....!!!

Does your Catholic Teaching, SKIP the Understanding...?

God DOES NOT "FORCE" ANY MAN TO TAKE "HIS GIFTS"...

EVERY MAN IN the ENTIRE WORLD...HAS the GIFT OF SALVATION "OFFERED" TO HIM, FOR HIM, It is HIS........" TO TAKE " !!

This has been explained to you in the most Elementary way BOL...

"IF" a man DOES NOT TAKE HIS GIFT, OFFERED TO HIM....

DUH....He does NOT "RECEIVE" the "OFFERED" Gift.

DUH....He LOSES out on what he COULD HAVE POSSESSED....

That Possession IS the Gift of Salvation the Lord Offered Expressly TO EVERY man...and when A MAN DOESN'T TAKE HIS GIFT...

Duh....the man LOSES his Gift...

A man Doesn't RECEIVE the Gift, and THEN Lose it....

A man LOSES "HIS GIFT", BECAUSE the man FAILED TO "TAKE" the Lords GIFT.

The Lord ""OFFERED" His GIFT OF "SALVATION"....... ONCE ..to the WHOLE WORLD....it IS The WHOLE Worlds' GIFT TO TAKE.

THERE ARE CONDITIONS/ AGREEMENTS the man MUST MEET, TO RECEIVE "HIS" GIFT.


The MAN MUST, be ALIVE IN HIS NATRUAL CORRUPT FLESH!

The MAN MUST, "HEARTFULY" BELIEVE IN GOD "AND" that JESUS IS THE CHRIST!

The MAN MUST. "CONFESS" His Heartful BELIEF!

THEN...the man "RECEIVES" "HIS GIFT".


A man WHO DOES NOT, meet the Conditions...DUH....He LOSES his Gift.

Not Rocket Science!

REMAIN IN GODS FAVOR...?

You trying to LIMIT being in Gods Favor to a man having RECEIVED Salvation is ERRONEOUS.

Lots of things, PUTS A MAN IN Gods FAVOR, for a man WHO HAS NOT RECEIVED SALVATION!

An "UNSAVED" man HEARING the word of God, puts that man IN FAVOR with God.

An "UNSAVED" man LEARNING ABOUT GOD, ABOUT Christ, puts that man IN FAVOR with God.

An "UNSAVED" man FOLLOWING AFTER the Lords TEACHING, puts that man IN FAVOR with God.

An "UNSAVED" man "SENDING his Children" to HEAR and LEARN About God/ Christ, puts that man IN FAVOR with God.

An "UNSAVED" man who is kind, gladly helpful and giving toward others, puts that man IN FAVOR with God.

"IN FAVOR" with God, does not MEAN, the man HAS BECOME SAVED.

SAV-ED, means the man has become SAVED!

Gaining "KNOWLEDGE" does not MEAN, a man has BECOME SAVED.

SAV-ED, means the man has become SAVED!

Gods FAVORING of men, IS NOT LIMITED...
(As YOU propose TO ONLY the Saved)...

Gods FAVORING of men, IS NOT LIMITED...
BY a MAN having Accepted His Gift of Salvation...

GOD BLESSES, the SAVED and UNSAVED men...

It is A man WHO CHOOSES, according to the Conditions...TO ACCEPT "HIS" GIFT of Salvation...that BECOMES SAV-ED...

The Lords GIFT of Salvation IS OFFERED "ONCE", to every person in the WHOLE WORLD...and "RECEIVED" ONLY ONCE by ANY individual of the Whole world WHO Chooses to RECEIVE "HIS" gift.

I doubt you will yet comprehend...
Perhaps an other as confused as you will get it.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Rev. 21:27 states emphatically that NOTHING impure or imperfect can enter Heaven.

Do YOU know any perfect people?

I KNOW, thee perfect Lord God Almighty.
I KNOW, people PERFECTED IN thee Lord God Almighty.
I Don't find you accounted among them.

I didn't think so.

LOL...why would you think your thoughts, matter, without your question yet having Been answered? LOL

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

That's what the Final Purification of the Elect (Purgatory) is all about.

That's what the Final Purification of the Elect (Purgatory) is all about.

Purgatory ~
in Roman Catholic doctrine) a place or state of suffering inhabited by the souls of sinners who are expiating their sins before going to heaven.

Where IS this place?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation.

The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei).

THAT VERSE is ABOUT being ENLIGHTENED....Hearing the Word of the KNOWLEDGE of Gods TRUTH...and THEN Rejecting the Word of God.

Do Catholics NOT TEACH, when a man IS HEARING the Word of God...the man IS being "ENLIGHTENED" to GODS TRUTH?

Do Catholics NOT TEACH, a man in the course of BEING ENLIGHTENED TO Gods KNOWLEDGE of TRUTH?
And the man is receiving MEASURES of FAITH from God "BECAUSE" the man has chosen "TO HEAR" the Word of God?

This verse is about

CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

No, that verse IS NOT LIMITED to Christians...or YOUR Understanding.

THAT VERSE, is ABOUT "ANY" man, WHO has chosen to HEAR the Word of God...
Which MEANS the man was BEING "ENLIGHTENED" to the Word of Gods TRUTH...
Which MEANS the man was BEING "GIVEN" Measures of FAITH...

AND "THEN" THE man CHOSE TO NOT BELIEVE, and WALKS AWAY "IN DISBELIEF",

To NOT bother to HEAR ANY MORE, or Receive ANY MORE Enlightment OF Gods Knowledge of His Word of Truth, or Receive ANY MORE measures of FAITH...

THAT MAN, is called having FALLEN FROM FAITH....

THAT MAN, was Offered the Gift of Salvation...and DIDN"T TAKE IT!

No kidding He Lost "HIS" offered Salvation!

DUH!! Elementary Conclusion!

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Not according to HIS Sacred Word . . .

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you REMAIN in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately AFTER receiving KNOWLEDGE of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation. The Greek ford for “knowledge” used here is NOT the usual word (oida). This is talking about a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei). This verse is about CHRISTIANS who had an EPIGNOSIS of Christ and who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have KNOWN the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ – CHRISTIANS – who can fall back into darkness and LOSE their salvation by their own doing.

Matt. 5:13
You are the salt of the earth. But if salt loses its taste, with what can it be seasoned? It is no longer good for anything but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot.
This one is self-explanatory - even to a blind person.

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

1 John 2:24
See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. IF it does, you also will REMAIN in the Son and in the Father.
This is an admonition to try to remain faithful.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about CHRISTIANS who are already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God “take away” somebody’s “share” of heaven if they never had it to begin with? This is about CHRISTIANS who may or may NOT make it into Heaven.

So....You are sharing how all these Scriptures APPLY TO YOU....BECAUSE:

You have given a wishy washy account of how the gift of Salvation relates to YOU...
Sort of like MAYBE you have Received SALVATION....MAYBE not...you are Unclear.

But then "IF" you have received Salvation, you could LOSE it at ANY TIME...
BECAUSE By your own testimony...YOU "CONTINUE" to SIN.

And then the matter of BEING BORN AGAIN which deals with the spirit.

You have clearly testified, YOU DID RECEIVE, a born again spirit....
Without repentance.
Without a confession of belief.
Without your knowledge.

So what is YOUR point with this list of Scriptures?

"YOU" Can RECEIVE "SALVATION"...
.......AND RECEIVE "A BORN AGAIN SPIRIT"...

AND STILL CONTINUE TO SIN?
and
Choose TO REJECT thee Lord God?
And
That...SINNING and REJECTION, WILL CAUSE YOU TO LOSE your SALVATION..?

What about YOUR "supposed" born again spirit.....DO YOU LOSE THAT TOO?

Glory To God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Hi Taken,

Clement of Rome, Ignatious of Antioch, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Calvin, Luther etc ALSO "read, reread, cross reference, study, reread, then Ask God for His Understanding for the specific Scriptures". They ALSO gave a diligent effort to learn.

.

Mary...How do you know what dead men YOU didn't know DID?

IF as you propose, THEY diligently read and learned....THEY WOULD have BY THEM SELVES entered a type of Closet and HAD a Conversation BETWEEN GOD and THEMSELVES....How did YOU get INCLUDED TO SPEAK FOR ANY MAN WHAT they may or may have NOT DONE in Private?

When their interpretation of Scripture is OPPOSITE than yours who was God deceiving? You or them???

You're the one claiming to be PRIVY to what dead men DID, not me. I don't speak FOR them, I speak for MYSELF.

Clement...About him...
...a Philosopher

Ignatius...About him...
...servant of the pope.

Polycarp...About him...
...Fragmented letters appear he claims to have been a follower of the Apostal John's teachings.

Ireaneus...About him...
...Appears to have been a student of Polycarp's teaching.

Calvin...About him...
....Appears to have been a Defender of Jesus' teaching..and BEYOND to the point of (something it seems Catholicism teaches)...ie polemic..
Ie to focus more on "undermining the oppositions position through contentious rhetoric"....( which taken a step further, like BOL routinely does, which is to Speak FOR others False claims...THEN attempt to undermine his own words he has falsely spoken for others )

Luther...About him...
... philosopher

NOT one of these men THAT YOU brought UP their Names, have I mentioned as being someone I follow, or even Consider what they DID, or what they did have ANY affect on me.

NOT ONCE did Scripture INFORM me to ...
FOLLOW after Philosophers.
FOLLOW after someone called a pope.
FOLLOW after men.

So, WHAT is your point of YOU telling me WHAT personal things YOU believe THEY did?

After all, according to your theory, the understanding of Scripture does not come from STUDY...it comes from God!

Why so polemic Mary?
Why undermine and call my CLAIM Gods Understanding comes from God....A THEORY?

Did YOU go and search the Scriptures TO FIND WHERE Gods Understanding COMES FROM?

Scripture TELLS YOU, WHERE Gods Understanding Comes FROM.....AND WHERE Gods Understanding DOES NOT COME FROM...

Matt 16
[17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood B] hath not revealed it unto thee,
but my Father which is in heaven. [/B]


WHY Do you NOT BELIEVE...
Gods Understanding DOES NOT COME FROM FLESH AND BLOOD?

WHY Do you NOT BELIEVE...
Gods Understanding COMES FROM GOD?

Surely you MUST realize your pope...IS FLESH and BLOOD! He can NOT GIVE YOU Gods Understanding! Nor can Philosophers, or men following other men.

Glory to God,
Taken