What Do The Book of Daniel DECEIVERS Present?!?

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Phoneman777

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Speaking of Daniel 8 and the 2300 day prophecy. If after the time for fulfillment has past without anything happening in Jerusalem, why wouldn't someone let go of the day is a year theory, and realize that the evenings and mornings was the key to the truth of it, and look at the shorter literal interpretation more closely because they would find that God is true to His word, and the prophecy was verifiably fulfilled, like it or not. The whole world knows what happened; Hanukkah happened. Personally, I would be humble enough to look at it again, because no prophecy of someone like Daniel or Jeremiah will prove to be false, only some of those interpreting them will fight to the death overridden with pride before they let go of an incorrect interpretation. What is sure, is when prophecies are fulfilled, everyone knows it.

So tell me as I've asked you at least 4-5 times, why you still hold that the 2300 days were 2300 years, and use the start date of another prophecy, for its start date. How do you know the 490 years was "cut out" of the first part of the 2300 year prophecy, and not out of the end, or even in the middle?

Back to bed I go...
It doesn't make sense that the 490 would be "cut off" from the middle or the end or such, because there's no definitive description of any of that. Therefore, since we know that the 70 Weeks were to be fulfilled in Christ's day, but the 2,300 years would not be until the "time of the end", then it is not that difficult at all to infer that the cutting off of the one from the other takes place in the beginning of the two.
 

Jay Ross

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Nah, I just like to consider myself in good company with the likes of:

John Wesley
Charles Wesley
Ulrich Zwingli
John Hus
William Tyndale
Charles Spurgeon
Miles Coverdale
Martin Luther
John Wycliffe
Hugh Latimer
Nicholas Ridley
Thomas Cramner
Ian Paisley
John Foxe
Alexander Hislop
King James, King of England
Philip Melancthon
John Calvin
John Knox
Matthius Flacius
Georg Nigrinus
Roger Williams
J. A. Wylie
The Waldenses
The Hugenots
The Lollards
The Albigenses
The Bogemills
The Baptist Confession of Faith
The Westminster Confession of Faith
Church fathers/founders of the many Protestant faiths
The translators of the KJV Bible.....

....and many, many, many, millions of faithful TRUE Protestants who are so-named because they PROTESTED the blasphemous doctrines of the papal Antichrist in Rome :)

But did they have the right understanding for people to follow today, when so much has happened since many of them were alive.

Shalom
 
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Jay Ross

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It doesn't make sense that the 490 would be "cut off" from the middle or the end or such, because there's no definitive description of any of that. Therefore, since we know that the 70 Weeks were to be fulfilled in Christ's day, but the 2,300 years would not be until the "time of the end", then it is not that difficult at all to infer that the cutting off of the one from the other takes place in the beginning of the two.

But the 70 weeks of years and the 2,300 years of the Sanctuary and the hosts of Israel being trampled have very different starting dates for their respective starting points to measure their progression from. To infer that we can assume that the 70 weeks of years can be subtracted from the stated duration of the Daniel_8 prophecy is a ludicrous assumption on the part of the scholars who tell us that this is acceptable.

Shalom
 

CharismaticLady

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And described cholesterol and plague before science even had any inkling of it. Also, that smoking was a devious killer in a time when cigarettes were prescribed for lung ailments....the dangers of caffeine, tobacco, alcohol, eating unclean meat such as pork, shellfish, etc. Yes, what a blessing is the SDA health message :)

I still love Choplets!
 

CharismaticLady

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It doesn't make sense that the 490 would be "cut off" from the middle or the end or such, because there's no definitive description of any of that. Therefore, since we know that the 70 Weeks were to be fulfilled in Christ's day, but the 2,300 years would not be until the "time of the end", then it is not that difficult at all to infer that the cutting off of the one from the other takes place in the beginning of the two.

That would be 1844. What happened in 1844 in Jerusalem that fulfilled a 2300 YEARS prophecy? Personally, I think you are fixated on "cut off" rather than "decreed." The 2300 evenings and mornings prophecy did not have a known start date spoken of in Scripture. Millerites took the start date of the next prophecy about the seventy years seen by JEREMIAH, and erroneously attached it to the previous prophecy. That is what you've been taught and you've never questioned it.

If that's what you want to believe, its fine by me. It doesn't affect our salvation if something happened on that date, such as Jesus going into the most holy place in the heavenly sanctuary to conduct an investigative judgment, or that nothing happened on that date, let alone in Jerusalem, or the fact that there was a 2300 literal day revolt of Jews against Antiochus Epiphanes IV from 167 BC to 160 BC. There is nothing we must do now that would change anything by our historical beliefs. Of course, I prefer mine, because it is verifiable by Scripture and history, and yours is not.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Nah, I just like to consider myself in good company with the likes of:

John Wesley
Charles Wesley
Ulrich Zwingli
John Hus
William Tyndale
Charles Spurgeon
Miles Coverdale
Martin Luther
John Wycliffe
Hugh Latimer
Nicholas Ridley
Thomas Cramner
Ian Paisley
John Foxe
Alexander Hislop
King James, King of England
Philip Melancthon
John Calvin
John Knox
Matthius Flacius
Georg Nigrinus
Roger Williams
J. A. Wylie
The Waldenses
The Hugenots
The Lollards
The Albigenses
The Bogemills
The Baptist Confession of Faith
The Westminster Confession of Faith
Church fathers/founders of the many Protestant faiths
The translators of the KJV Bible.....

....and many, many, many, millions of faithful TRUE Protestants who are so-named because they PROTESTED the blasphemous doctrines of the papal Antichrist in Rome :)

I hope not all. There are two mentioned that I wouldn't give you two cents for their doctrines of demons, and I know you and SDAs well enough to know you wouldn't either.
 

Jay Ross

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Where you have passed over the Maccabeean revolt as no big deal, it was the first desecration of the temple altar, and WAS a big deal to God. Daniel 8 fulfillment is still under Greece, so I believe in the 6.3 year calculation of 2300 evenings and mornings - 24 hour period days as set forth in Genesis 1.

I love you, brother, and you are smart, but I am too, so we will just have to agree to disagree. I will never unsee the comprehensive words of clarification (evenings and mornings) that these are just literal days, inside a prophecy.

Yes we can agree to disagree, however, only considering one aspect of the prophecy, i.e. just the trampling of the sanctuary and saying that has been fulfilled, without considering the trampling of the hosts of Israel over the 2,300 years period which is still on going is avoiding the reason for the over all prophecy in the first place.

Shalom.
 

Bobby Jo

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... it's like watching a play about Cinderella's Glass Slipper, where the step sisters toes are amputated one by one, while insisting that if they amputate one more toe, the slipper will fit.


Whew,
Bobby Jo
 

Phoneman777

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But did they have the right understanding for people to follow today, when so much has happened since many of them were alive.

Shalom
So much of what? The re-establishment of "Israel" which are not Jews at all? They are descendants of the pagan Russian Khazarian Empire, to which history FULLY attests, though it is denied most vehemently by those same descendants who are only too willing to exploit the "goyim" that are drunk on the "bless them that bless Israel" Koolaid - when God's words were directed to Abraham, not Israel, and pertains only to those true descendants of Abraham who "belong to Christ" because only then are they "Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise" per Galatians 3:29 KJV

Papal intrigue, Luciferian members of the League of Nations, Theosophical Society, Society for Psychical Research, and other such societies - not God - were responsible for the events of 1948...because you cannot find a single instance from Genesis to Revelation where God gathered His people back to the land after scattering them for their sin without them having first repented and turned their hearts back to the Lord. Not one. As of yet, "Israel" has not repented of putting Jesus to death, and today still refer to Him as "the Great Imposter" and "Son of a Whore".
 

Phoneman777

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But the 70 weeks of years and the 2,300 years of the Sanctuary and the hosts of Israel being trampled have very different starting dates for their respective starting points to measure their progression from. To infer that we can assume that the 70 weeks of years can be subtracted from the stated duration of the Daniel_8 prophecy is a ludicrous assumption on the part of the scholars who tell us that this is acceptable.

Shalom
By what standard do you measure this "difference"? The text is clear and we cannot overthrow the plain meaning of it. Gabriel specifically came to explain Daniel's confusion about the previous chapter 8 "mareh" - the 2,300 Days portion of the prophecy which was the only part that left Daniel confused and so completely distraught - and Gabriel specifically begins the explanation by telling us that the 70 Weeks are "cut off" - which everyone would readily agree can only refer to the 2,300 Days if they were not so bent on sticking to Jesuit Futurist interpretations of a future Antichrist.

The 70 were "cut off" from the 2,300, and the only safe, reasonable inference that can be make is that they both begin at the same time and the one expires after 490 years just after the coming of the Messiah, the Gospel going to the Gentiles, followed by the AoD and the destruction of the Jerusalem...while the 2,300 continue on down to "the time of the end" - our time when the SDA church was raised up to preach the "everlasting Gospel" of the 3 Angels Messages that the hour of the Judgment has come and to worship the Creator and get ready for the Second Coming, Babylon is fallen and that the world needs to come out, and do not take the Mark of the papal Beast, but "keep the commandments of God and have the testimony and the faith of Jesus". (Revelation 12:17; 14:6-12)
 

Bobby Jo

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... need even FEWER toes ...

Bobby Jo



To All,
Who can guess the blatant FALSE DOCTRINES being bantered about as though they were epiphanies. (Pun Intended) It's WORSE that the blind men and the elephant, -- at least they were dealing with the information available to them. But these Posters DENY Scripture, DENY History, and DENY TRUTH.

What a cabal of LIES,
Bobby Jo
 

CharismaticLady

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So much of what? The re-establishment of "Israel" which are not Jews at all? They are descendants of the pagan Russian Khazarian Empire, to which history FULLY attests, though it is denied most vehemently by those same descendants who are only too willing to exploit the "goyim" that are drunk on the "bless them that bless Israel" Koolaid - when God's words were directed to Abraham, not Israel, and pertains only to those true descendants of Abraham who "belong to Christ" because only then are they "Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise" per Galatians 3:29 KJV

Papal intrigue, Luciferian members of the League of Nations, Theosophical Society, Society for Psychical Research, and other such societies - not God - were responsible for the events of 1948...because you cannot find a single instance from Genesis to Revelation where God gathered His people back to the land after scattering them for their sin without them having first repented and turned their hearts back to the Lord. Not one. As of yet, "Israel" has not repented of putting Jesus to death, and today still refer to Him as "the Great Imposter" and "Son of a Whore".

As I recall, SDAs adhere to "Replacement Theology" which Romans 11 warns us against, because it is not forever as they believe, but only until the last Gentile that is numbered to be saved receives salvation, then the partial blindness of national Israel will be lifted. Then the rest of national Israel will join spiritual Israel and be saved.
 
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Phoneman777

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As I recall, SDAs adhere to "Replacement Theology" which Romans 11 warns us against, because it is not forever as they believe, but only until the last Gentile that is numbered to be saved receives salvation, then the partial blindness of national Israel will be lifted. Then the rest of national Israel will join spiritual Israel and be saved.
The "blindness" or "mental dullness" is said to have been imposed upon Jews "in part" which means not all Jews are affected by it - those who are of the "remnant" which respond to the Holy Spirit at such time as He manifests Himself to them, they are grafted back into the Vine, but those who are blinded, well...

Those who are blinded, the blindness is to last "until the fullness of the Gentiles" - and at what time is this "fullness" to come to pass? At the Second Coming! It is only then that the "fullness" of the Great Commission will have been accomplished and Jesus will come, leaving those who have been blinded able to see, but only after the door of mercy will have swung shut on the hinges of grace - it will be too late. If any Jew is going to get saved and be grafted back into the Vine, it has to happen before "the fullness of the Gentiles".

There will be no "post Rapture 7 years of tribulation" because when Jesus comes as a thief, the entire world and atmosphere is going to be set on fire and the prevailing conditions will not permit the least life form to survive.

Keep in mind, Romans 11 is describing scattered descendants of the tribes of Israel, not the Khazarian impostors who occupy their ancient land today :)
 

CharismaticLady

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Those who are blinded, the blindness is to last "until the fullness of the Gentiles" - and at what time is this "fullness" to come to pass? At the Second Coming!

That's where you are mistaken. It is not at the second coming but just a few years prior. There will be a Great Tribulation that I know SDAs believe will happen before Christ comes.
 
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CharismaticLady

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There will be no "post Rapture 7 years of tribulation" because when Jesus comes as a thief, the entire world and atmosphere is going to be set on fire and the prevailing conditions will not permit the least life form to survive.

Then I take it you do not believe in a 1000 year Millennium on earth. I did when I was an Adventist. I'm not sure what you were saying, but there is no pretribulation rapture 7 years before Christ comes. But there will be a Great Tribulation and a Millennium. And the SDAs I know believe that too.

I knew a woman at my mothers SDA church that was so frightened of the tribulation because she believed it would target Sabbath keepers, she killed her newborn baby, and spent 30 years in an asylum.
 
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Phoneman777

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That's where you are mistaken. It is not at the second coming but just a few years prior. There will be a Great Tribulation that I know SDAs believe will happen before Christ comes.
CharismaticLady, I agree with that, although the Bible actually refers to that period as "Jacob's time of trouble" but I don't see where they're be an opportunity for those to whom the door of probation has closed to be able to enter through it.

Do you agree that prophecy is Christ-centered, and not Antichrist-centered or Israel-centered?
 

Phoneman777

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Then I take it you do not believe in a 1000 year Millennium on earth. I did when I was an Adventist. I'm not sure what you were saying, but there is no pretribulation rapture 7 years before Christ comes. But there will be a Great Tribulation and a Millennium. And the SDAs I know believe that too.

I knew a woman at my mothers SDA church that was so frightened of the tribulation because she believed it would target Sabbath keepers, she killed her newborn baby, and spent 30 years in an asylum.
I believe that when the saints go up to be with Jesus and make their journey to the Gates of Heaven where "the saints go marchin' in", it will leave the Earth in a 1,000 years of darkness and silence with only the devil and his angels left here to consider what they've done and the fate that awaits them afterward.

That's a shame about that woman and her child. We're told that we are to not fear anything, especially what the devil may do to us. We have to reach out in faith and hold on to the promises.
 

CharismaticLady

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CharismaticLady, I agree with that, although the Bible actually refers to that period as "Jacob's time of trouble" but I don't see where they're be an opportunity for those to whom the door of probation has closed to be able to enter through it.

Do you agree that prophecy is Christ-centered, and not Antichrist-centered or Israel-centered?

It is both Christ centered, and Israel centered. God WILL perform His promises to national Israel, and just because Jews were scattered all over the world, doesn't mean that the ones out of Russia were not true Jews.

The Great Tribulation is called Jacob's trouble for a reason. Only Jews will be first time saved during the Tribulation. The last Gentile to be saved will happen just prior to the tribulation for the Jews. The partial blindness of the Jews will be lifted, at the same time that a strong delusion will be placed on all other unsaved Gentiles headed for hell. Those Gentiles will bow to the Antichrist.
 

CharismaticLady

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I believe that when the saints go up to be with Jesus and make their journey to the Gates of Heaven where "the saints go marchin' in", it will leave the Earth in a 1,000 years of darkness and silence with only the devil and his angels left here to consider what they've done and the fate that awaits them afterward.

I don't see Scripture saying that, nor do I recall SDAs believing that scenario, but could be wrong. What I see is Satan and his angels will not be wandering around on earth for a 1000 years. No, they will be chained in hell, and Christ will rule for 1000 years on earth from the holy city. After the 1000 years has ended, then Satan and his angels will be released and the war of Armageddon will commence. Chapters 19 and 20 seem to show the same event from two different perspectives. They are not sequential. Both show Christ reigning on earth over the nations for a thousand years, while Satan is chained.

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
 
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