No Heaven if you don't mortify the deeds of the flesh

[justbyfaith]

Rom 5:5, And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Rom 13:8, Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9, For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Rom 13:10, Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Gal 5:14, For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Rom 8:4, That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[Waiting on him]

Heb 10:14, For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Is Paul being disrespectful?

 

[Waiting on him]

Your gonna make a good Christian one day,

 

[justbyfaith]

Your gonna make a good Christian one day,

I really hope so.

 

[marks]

But that perfection is found in our own sphere of growth and willingness to surrender to Christ's righteousness. We may not be perfectly sinless, but can be perfect in as much God has revealed to us our hearts and our positive response to His convictions.

Relative perfection?



But yes, we walk in His works.

Much love!

 

[friend of]

It is disrespect to the Lord not to capitalize words that refer to Him.

Gotta give that one to you!

 

[Stan B]

You lose all credibility with such foolish and false accusations. Willie is a genuine Christian affiliated with the Vineyard assemblies.

Enoch, IMO justbyfaith obviously has the spirit of discernment, and is on the right track. She and I have both sensed that there is something really off about some of the unBiblical stuff Willie has been saying, as if he belonged to some sort of cult, and you have just confirmed that he does. He belongs to the Vineyard cult.

Living in the Toronto area, I am ultra familiar with this cult, but I would not call it 'Christian'. It is basically a Kundalini Hindu cult, camoflaged with a sprinkling of Christianity for the purpose of deceiving westerners. Vineyard is consumed by the Kundalini evidence of the unholy spirit they embrace: falling to the ground when someone places their hand on their forehead [Benny Hinn style]; rolling around on the floor, shaking uncontrollably, going around on all fours barking like dogs, etc. etc. The fruit of the Spirit is "self-control", which is the antithesis of what is going on at the Vineyard. The fruit of Satan is "lack of self-control" ala Vineyard!

As a former pastor of the Vineyard revealed, the spirit that was invading him while he was rolling around uncontrollably on the floor, and a lot of things transpiring within that cult definitely did NOT come from God, he described it as an overwhelming demonic presence. Upon that realization, he forever departed from the Vineyard cult.

There is a lot of information about Kundalini on Youtube. Andrew Strom, has done a lot of research on the subject, and a lot of his videos can be found on Youtube. He provides a brief 3 minute intro at:

 

[Waiting on him]

Enoch, IMO justbyfaith obviously has the spirit of discernment, and is on the right track. She and I have both sensed that there is something really off about some of the unBiblical stuff Willie has been saying, as if he belonged to some sort of cult, and you have just confirmed that he does. He belongs to the Vineyard cult.

Living in the Toronto area, I am ultra familiar with this cult, but I would not call it 'Christian'. It is basically a Kundalini Hindu cult, camoflaged with a sprinkling of Christianity for the purpose of deceiving westerners. Vineyard is consumed by the Kundalini evidence of the unholy spirit they embrace: falling to the ground when someone places their hand on their forehead [Benny Hinn style]; rolling around on the floor, shaking uncontrollably, going around on all fours barking like dogs, etc. etc. The fruit of the Spirit is "self-control", which is the antithesis of what is going on at the Vineyard. The fruit of Satan is "lack of self-control" ala Vineyard!

As a former pastor of the Vineyard revealed, the spirit that was invading him while he was rolling around uncontrollably on the floor, and a lot of things transpiring within that cult definitely did NOT come from God, he described it as an overwhelming demonic presence. Upon that realization, he forever departed from the Vineyard cult.

There is a lot of information about Kundalini on Youtube. Andrew Strom, has done a lot of research on the subject, and a lot of his videos can be found on Youtube. He provides a brief 3 minute intro at:

Yep she has the secret sauce.

 

[Willie T]

Stan, I can't even begin to rationalize the slobbering of ignorance you are dripping upon your keyboard. When the leader of the Vineyard realized Toronto had gone off the tracks, he openly and loudly denounced them and disavowed any further association.

 

[aspen]

Better get to mortifying!
Love will have to wait......

 

[brakelite]

Better get to mortifying!
Love will have to wait......

Can the carnal flesh love?

 

[Willie T]

Sorry, but not feeling much love for a stiff-necked turkey who mocked and called a group of people I love, a cult... and threw in a couple of other slurs too.

 

[amadeus]

I know that I have the same Holy Ghost that they do, promised through the same condition found in Acts 2:38-39.

I think that if they sought the Holy Spirit for the answer, instead of holding to the doctrine taught them by the church, that they would understand a distinction between the members in the Trinity.

Personally, I was baptized in Jesus' Name and I also place an emphasis on the Oneness of the Lord. But I also do not deny the distinction between the members; because I see it clearly in scripture: although I see it in fewer places than I see the Oneness of God emphasized.

Specifically, distinction is mentioned in John 14:26 and John 16:27-28.

But it is also clear that there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5) and that that Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:26, Luke 10:21) and the Son (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3) and the Holy Ghost (2 Corinthians 3:17). Since a Lord is a Person, that means there is one Person ruling over everything. I understand the intricacies of how He can be one Person and yet also three. By reading the threads that I have started on this subject of the Trinity, you can understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ.

The Trinity is NO lie.

Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

Well I still won't get too much into the differences in understanding, but I still definitely cannot embrace a trinity doctrine. Neither do I insist on a UPC version of Oneness or any other definite doctrine.

To anyone reading the Bible it is probably clear enough that there is only One God. I believe in One God. As for those other things [Godhead, persons, manifestations], I could present an argument on more than two sides using scripture, but which one would be the truth? Perhaps none of them... I have been through all of the arguments too many times before... I leave it God's capable hands. I walk with Him, and perceive what He shows me. At the moment on this issue it remains as through a glass darkly until and if He shows me the face to face.

 

[justbyfaith]

@amadeus:

If you do believe in one God and are a Christian, how does that not translate into a Trinity?

Do you believe in the Deity of Christ?

The Father is obviously God.

And the Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4) and also a Person with a mind and who makes intercession for us.

I don't want to put you on the spot. Feel free to answer me via PM if you feel uncomfortable sharing your views publicly.

 

[justbyfaith]

The holy laughter phenomenon has been brought about by an emphasis on freedom (cf. 2 Corinthians 3:17). I have been a part; and I also do not perceive the spirit involved as being demonic. They do often commission holy angels to accomplish works of healing.

If there is a demonic spirit that has associated itself with it, I have not encountered it; except that sometimes demons do manifest in people who already have them; and the course of the service has been that they have been cast out after having manifested. If someone has been attacked by a demon in the course of a service, it may be because the demon jumped on them after being cast out of someone else.

So, it is not lack of self-control that characterizes the movement but the fact that people feel free to laugh, or cry, or act out strangely; and for some this has had a healing effect on deep-rooted psychological problems that had plagued them for years.

I myself have been healed of something like that; while I continue to take my psychiatric medicine as a sign to the psychiatric profession that a healing has taken place. (for they believe that if a person isn't med-compliant, that this is a symptom of mental illness: therefore in taking my medicine I show them that the mental illness is nonexistent).

 

[justbyfaith]

Zec 6:5, And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.
Zec 6:6, The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country.
Zec 6:7, And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth.
Zec 6:8, Then cried he upon me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country.

Zec 1:8, I saw by night, and behold a man riding upon a red horse, and he stood among the myrtle trees that were in the bottom; and behind him were there red horses, speckled, and white.
Zec 1:9, Then said I, O my lord, what are these? And the angel that talked with me said unto me, I will shew thee what these be.
Zec 1:10, And the man that stood among the myrtle trees answered and said, These are they whom the LORD hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth.
Zec 1:11, And they answered the angel of the LORD that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest.

Thus says the Lord: the revival that I have brought about in the north country shall also spread throughout the whole earth; for I am the LORD, and I have spoken it, says the Lord. For thus says the Lord, where my spirit is, there is freedom.

Ho! ho! Come forth, and come away from the land of the north, saith the LORD, for I have spread you abroad as the four winds of heaven, saith the LORD.

 

[Naomi25]

It should be clear however that if salvation is real, one will show forth this fruit. Which means that without the fruit you can be pretty certain salvation is lacking.

Well, yes. Except, one is not always privy to the life of others. Can we see the fruit of other just through the exposure we have of them via this board? Probably not. Their lives branch out into mulitple other areas. Their fruit might be growing in the home life, rather than their online life at this time. And it's not really up to us to make judgements just because WE cannot see right now what WE judge to be fruit. I think we must be a little careful here.
Also, I think, specifically in regards to the OP, we must always be careful in how we articulate such things. We should always be on guard against perpetuating a salvation of works. Yes we must expect fruit in our lives, but it is never to be a fruit that earns salvation. Only one that comes directly from it.

 

[justbyfaith]

Well, yes. Except, one is not always privy to the life of others. Can we see the fruit of other just through the exposure we have of them via this board? Probably not. Their lives branch out into mulitple other areas. Their fruit might be growing in the home life, rather than their online life at this time. And it's not really up to us to make judgements just because WE cannot see right now what WE judge to be fruit. I think we must be a little careful here.
Also, I think, specifically in regards to the OP, we must always be careful in how we articulate such things. We should always be on guard against perpetuating a salvation of works. Yes we must expect fruit in our lives, but it is never to be a fruit that earns salvation. Only one that comes directly from it.

It seems to me that the OP was merely quoting scripture. And while I do not believe that scripture teaches salvation by works, that is what it is indeed doing if indeed the OP is teaching salvation by works.

Of the other thing I am in agreement. Our judgment of fruit in other people ought to be limited to a certain degree; for we may indeed be unaware of how they are bearing the fruit of the Spirit in ways unbeknownst to us.

I would say however that we need to do what it says in the following scriptures as pertains to the fruit that we ourselves bear:

1Co 11:27, Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.
1Co 11:28, But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup.
1Co 11:29, For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
1Co 11:30, For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
1Co 11:31, For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
1Co 11:32, But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

2Co 13:5, Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

 

[Naomi25]

It seems to me that the OP was merely quoting scripture. And while I do not believe that scripture teaches salvation by works, that is what it is indeed doing if indeed the OP is teaching salvation by works.

I'm sorry, but this mentality leads to a serious error in basic exegesis. This is, essentially, what all the cults do; pull one verse, or one passage that suits their beliefs, out of scripture and waves it before the people alone. Scripture needs to be understood together. James cannot be understood correctly without Paul. We cannot say that James is MORE correct than Paul, and so ignore what Paul has to say on the subject, or vise versa. We have to unite both texts until they hamonize, and only in this way may we build a proper and complete doctrine on the subject.

 

[brakelite]

When Christ calls a man, He bids him, come and die.”

These words become even more powerful when we realize that they were chiseled out by a young German theologian named Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who was murdered by the Nazis in the late days of the Second World War. Though he could have enjoyed a safe, comfortable professorship at some American seminary, Bonhoeffer instead lost his life fighting a regime he viewed as antithetical to every principle of Jesus Christ. Arrested for his anti-Nazi activity, Bonhoeffer sat in a Gestapo prison for two years before he was hung by his neck in early April 1945, a week before the Allies liberated the camp. Better than most, Bonhoeffer understood the meaning of his own words “When Christ calls a man, He bids him, come and die.” In this statement Bonhoeffer captured the essence of Christian discipleship, which is death to self and complete surrender in faith and obedience to the will of God.